OldGreyEagle

The BSA program is run by volunteers, let me say that again, volunteers. That means we do what we can when we can. With all the noise about BSA leadership requirements, expressed or implied, I do not remember anyone at anytime saying we had to work with those who make us uncomfortable. That includes youth and adults

The troop I used to serve had an Aspergers child. He went off on another kid and beat him pretty bad. The Troop Committee said the only way he could come on another trip was if Dad was along. Dad was along and he beat another kid bloody. We helped him become a lone scout. As much as the boy may have needed scouting, we needed a safe environment for the other youth, and adults.

PS: Does not being a volunteer for a faith based youth organization make us all "righteous do-gooders"?

So death by Drunk Driver is Acceptable because we have "tough laws" against it?

If you cause a death while driving impaired, you should never be able to drive again, nationwide

If you cause a second death while driving impaired, you permanently lose your liberty, forever

OK, define Assault Rifle

First, Observation on the Media, how could so much wrong things be reported and no one be called on it? There were two shooters, the shooter was a students father, the shooter shot his mother who taught Kindergarten. Only pistols were used, only a rifle was used etc etc etc. How about, we have an unfolding story, we will give what happened when we know for sure...

Or is that too much to ask?

Also, The hypocrisy abounds. Read carefully what I am going to say, as I am sure I will be misunderstood

Does anyone know how many people died over the weekend in drunk driving accidents? More than 26? Less than 26? How many above 8 years old, how many under? Does it matter?

We want to launch a nation wide effort to stop the myriad of shootings and we allow the drunk driver slaughter to continue. Why? Because there is not a single point of focus? Because the dead are strewn all over the country? We keep telling ourselves we value human life, yet there is a Cottage Industry in Law sheltering Drunk Drivers.

President Obama is tired of the headlines of deadly shootings, I tire of drunk driver deaths. Why is one form of death more acceptable that others? And yes, death by drunk driver must be acceptable because we as a society tolerate it so well

Yes, that Chicken Place... on Old Route 66 or whatever they call it. Remember the doomed shopping mall? Old Chicago? Didnt last long

Chicago is in Cook County and Cook spreads out all over north eastern Illinois.

Bolingbrook is in DuPage and Will County, Elmhurst is in DuPage County. Bolingbrook is not all that far from Old ROute 66 and the Famous WHite Fence Farm. Its not that far from the Old Lewis College and whats left of the place I went to High School for 3 years

Well, Pack, what you just said is how I started this thread. so its almost like we agree

Just a thought and I am sure this is clumsy so we will see how it goes:

I am asleep in my bed at night and a terrible crash that shakes house occurs. I hear noise, smell smoke and screams. What occurs is the following, its taken from horror movies so bear with me.

A person was walking down the street and a drunk driver careened over the curb and has pinned the person against my garage door. The victim's legs and pelvis are crushed. The only thing keeping the person upright is because he is pinned against the garage door by the car. If the car is moved, the person will bleed out in seconds. This is said to have actually happned. A surgeon comes and surveys the scene and says, if you move the car now, the person will die. If you leave the patient in this positon for 6-9 months, I can operate and set up life support so the person will live until he heals. We move the car and he will be fine. I dont know this guy, its not my fault he was struck by the the car, my life will be altered for the 6-9 months it takes to heal this guy

Am I obligated to follow the surgeons suggestion

Yeah, I know a reach, over the top even, but what if?

Right Pack, a lot of things have to happen after fertilization before the human is born and many fertilized eggs don't successfully implant, there are misscarriages lots of things can happen without human intervention.

Life ends in many ways. Heart Attacks, Cancer, Stroke, many things can cause death that we accept as natural and the way things are. After birth the ending of a life by human actions is murder (well generally, lets not get into justifianle homicide just yet)Should not the same be thought before birth? If a pregnant woman gets into a car accident and as a result of the accident the fetus dies, the responsible driver can be charged with manslaughter, vehicular homicide or something like that (euphemisms for murder). And she could be on her way to a place to get a partial birth abortion. So, terminating the viability of the fetus in the car accident is a crime, but the medical procedure which does the same thing is not. I have a hard time understanding that

OK, Pack, I'll give it a shot, not saying this will make sense but it's all I got

Haploid cells by themselves will not develop into a human. Put the male and female together and now you have a human,

So, for the record, I see abortion as murder.

Then I have said this a few times and it's time to bring it up again.

The goal of our society should not be whether or not abortion is legal or illegal, that is not the point, arguing about the legality of a medical procedure is not the issue. It's a quesiton about respect for life. Rather than fighting to live in a society that allows/does not allow abortion, we should strive to live in a society where the respect for life is such that no one would ever think of abortion. That support systems would be such that the thought of an abortion would be so abhorrent that is would not be condsidered. Making abortion illegal reminds me of the slogan "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns", well, "When abortion is crminalized, only criminals will abort". Its not about abortion, its about setting up a society where abortion can occur, its just doesnt because its not thought about

::Warning Hijack in Progress::

OK, I have to say this. There is nothing wrong in using paper. Repeat, there is nothing wrong in using paper.

Its not like square miles of old growth forest is cut down each year to produce paper. Boise Cascade and Great Northern plant forests, employ foresters to plant, nurture and grow trees. They employee people to cut down the trees and load them on trucks. They employ the people who drive the trucks to the plant to make the paper and then they employ the people at the paper making plants. Then the paper is trucked to warehouses and then taken by other employed truck drives to retail sites where an employed clerk sells you the paper. I think the countries economy could use more jobs, not less and using paper, lots of it, improves the economy

Now, if you buy paper from a company that cuts trees that werent planted for pulp, rethink where you buy paper, but don't stop using it

I have long said I would have no problem as a teacher working on a merit scale. I also want to pick my stidents, I'll take the ones whose parents give a damn and I'll be fine.

Otherwise its like giving a baker rotten fruit and then expecting world class pastry. Not going to happen. The single best indicator a kid will do well is engaged parents.

So, the disparaging of STEM is due to what?

So, I am totally confused.

I thought the issue was the US was way behind educationally and that STEM programs were supposed to help lessen the gap in the Science/Technology/Math gap we have with other countries

Are we saying its all a scam and our eduication system relative to Science/Technology/Engineering and Math is fine?

I see an almost knee jerk reaction to books and reading yet Harry Potter and Hunger Games books sell quite well. It is not baby boomers reading them all.

The key is to make the youth want to read and learn and therein is the issue...

We are back to talking Root Beer around a Scouting Campfire correct?

Now, a non-scouting campfire? Times have changed, And we've often rewound the clock, Since the Puritans got a shock, When they landed on Plymouth Rock. If today, Any shock they should try to stem, Stead of landing on Plymouth Rock, Plymouth Rock would land on them. In olden days a glimpse of stocking Was looked on as something shocking,

But now, God knows,

Anything Goes.

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Sentinel, there isn't much BSA could do that WasEng61 would like. His stepson is a Boy Scout and this guy would rather he lean more to Sports. Of course, when the step son's natual father died in June 2011, he came here looking for Counsel and got a lot of good advice which he appreaciated, well, he said he appreciated it but still, if there is a bad thing to say about the BSA, he will say it.

At least with Merlyn LeRoy, I kinda get where he is comming from and why he posts here, WasE61? I am not sure, but if it brightens his day by disparaging Scouting and reading our responses, at least we brought some joy in his life(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

So, if you think being a scout is hard or uncool today, try being a scout in the Chicago area in the Post '68 Democratic Convention era. We didnt wear our uniforms for over 2 years for fear of being harmed by the "peace loving hippies". Our Scoutmaster told us it wasnt worth getting hurt because we were wearing our uniforms. Our District Camporees had adults and older scouts patrolling the campsite perimeter because of rumored "raids".

Mob hatred of those who state they will be righteous is not new, it's a part of life.

In the greatest movie of all times, Whitey tells his father he dosent want to go off with "a bunch of daisy pickin' Momma's boys",

It is a conundrum, how to attract individuals in an age range where individualism is not highly regarded. But then being smart has its dangers as well

it may just be me, but I thought the legal drinking age was 21, so no youth in the BSA should ever be buying beer. OK, it has been known that underage drinking does occur, but a bunch of scouters talking about registration cost for youth in terms of how much beer it would buy, is unsettling...

This thread does remind me of the words of Meyer Wolfsheim who said "Let us learn to show our friendship for a man when he is alive, and not after he is dead"

The rembrance is fine, and they should continue, thanking people while alive is important as well, perhaps even more so

Don't be too hard on BadenP, the Jonathon Edwards of Scouting. He has a unqiue take on things and we can read it and decide how applicable the views expressed are to our situation.

Ah, the Lenten fast, so severe for some Germanic monks that they looked at grain, barley and such and thought, how do we change that into a liquid, as we can drink as much of liquid a we want. SO they soaked the grains and let them ferment and cooked the juice (more or less)

And Voila, Ale was born, as Mother is the source of all Inventions, the Lenten Fast gave us Beer, to which we all give thanks, especially Benjamin Franklin

The Council I serve does rembrances, a man passed away a few years ago who did a lot of work in the SHooting Sports Commmittee, under his name we raied money for pistol benches at one of the Council Camps, they will carry his name.

It's not an award, but a rembrance

If the Yule Log is not known, why do people send Christmas Cards with the words 'Yuletide Greetings"? If the term Yule was not used, why does the valediction of "Have a Cool Yule" occur?

While we may have a dearth of yule in the hearth, the term and symbol remains

and originates not from Christiandom which was the point. And neither does the privilege of kissing a girl standing under mistletoe have Christian roots

And it matters not that the rest of the world does not use Easter, does the rest of the world celebrate Chirstmas the way we do?

Way Way Way back at the turn of the Century I remember Y2K, and how the world would grind to a halt because of not having 4 charactors in the year field for most computers.

The TV Networks covered midnight 2000 in major cities all over the globe and I was amazed to learn other countries celebrate the New Year with as much energy a we do. I had thought that the spectacle that is New Years was an American thing, and its not, its global. New Years may be the only global holiday, although I am sure I will be told where I am wrong (if I am)

So, we agree that the exact date does not matter, as your son's birthday example eloquently illustrates, but we still argue, is that the most American thing yet or what?

So, we should be thinking more Shaun White, other than Mike Rowe.

I always thought the Yule Log was adopted as a Christmas tradition from distinctively non-Christian backgrounds

The whole rabbit and egg thing for Easter does not have any Christian roots. In fact the name Easter, the most sacred Christian Holiday, has its roots in non-christian lore

Why are the exact dates important anyway?