OldGreyEagle

Bob White, I'll second that emotion

::best Jim Nabors impression doing the charactor Gomer Pyle:: ShaZZammm, Mr White, have the provisional Scout Patrol elect its own Patrol Leader? What a concept, let the boys decide who will lead them? Why thats downright blashphemy... Wait a minute... something stirring deep inside... whats that voice number 3, "boy run troop?" ...voice number 5, you think this is a good idea? Back to Normal...(such as it is) Ok, I submit to voices 2-5, will all forum members ignore my previous post and follow Bob Whites advice. Thats why I love this place, you never know what you are going to learn, especially when its stuff you know you should have known in the first place. Ryon, have your group elect a patrol leader for Summer Camp, then no one gets stuck with the job, he actively sought it out. May be the taste of leadership a scout needs to spur him on...

Fotoscout Are you saying that when you expect excellence you get it, and when you accept mediocrity thats what you will get? What a concept!

I am not sure I have the logistics down, are you saying there is one patrol leader and 6 other scouts going to camp, or with the patrol leader there will be six scout? Actually as I was typing this, it doesnt really matter, the Patrol Leader will be responsible for either 5 or 6 scouts. I dont see any problem with this even if some or all of the scouts are not in the patrol leaders natural patrol. My response to the Patrol Leader would be to remember the scout law, and be Obedient to the needs of the troop and Friendly/Courteous/Kind/Helpful/ Cheerful to members not of his patrol. He would not be and Loyal to his brother scouts (even those not in his natural patrol)to let them drift through summer camp with his leadership. If the patrol leader doesnt want to use his leadership position and skills taught to him by the troop, he is not being very trustworthy. Have a good time at Camp Ryon I

Am putting together a book of skits and I am looking for one that I just remember parts of, I have tried lots of places and I cant find it anywhere. its starts with a group of scouts talking about the summer camp staff. It has lines in it like, "I am not sure about that new Rangemaster, did you notice every time he shoots a gun he wipes off his finger prints?" and when they talk about the cook, its something along the lines of "they said they had been cooking that way for 30 years, I just wish they wouldnt wait 30 years to serve it" and another line about the waterfront director working on his tan, or rust as another one puts it. Does this ring a bell with anyone? So a church needs a new bellringer...

Please Please Please, no more talk about a Sewing merit badge, its unseemly and un masculine.... Now, what I think would be a good idea is the Tailor merit badge, (as they say on the food channel, presentation is everything) sample requirements would be a) they should learn something about the history of fabric arts and sewing. b) they need to know the basic elements of hand-sewing. c) they need to know fabrics and their uses d) they need to create a garment for themselves or another e) They need to know how to buy fabrics, patterns and notions without looking like a fool. (thank you DSTEELE) The badge would be a figure sitting on a bench with a needle in an outstreched hand with a thread

btps, At times I think its not that other organizaitons or adults dont understrand where the BSA is comming from, its that they do understand and its that fact BSA wont yield that drives them crazy.

Oh Mark, I wasnt insulted, I just jump at the opportunity to stress Venturing can be Co-ed thats all. We wouldnt be what we are if it wasnt for all of us

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MacArthur Park? Its a classic, now are we talking the Richard Harris or WIlliam Shatner rendition?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I love hearing about new ideas for merit badges, but the discussion on the ligitimacy of awarding Cub Scout age kids Black Belts also has merit. So, can we bring the Black Belt discussion over here? I hope? I too understand the confusion many express when they see a 12 year old (or youunger) with a black belt and their mother running after them with the shoes and back pack the kid forgot. Having never taken any classes in the martial arts, all my information comes from Brue Lee or other movies which I will admit may not be the best reference material to work from. I always thought the Black Belt was the top honor given to those students who had studied for years honing their body and minds into the rigid standards set by the Sensei (sp?) of their Dojo. To see preteens, or even teens for that matter, wearing a black belt cheapens the entire of marital arts. I know Tiger Schulmans Karate schools show up in all manner of strip or mini malls and I guess they have to churn out black belts to keep student and family interested but is that keeping in the martial philosophy? I always thought the mental discipline of marital arts was the most important (of course, that was from a Chuck Norris film) and what I see is kids wanting to show off their skills in a fight. I thought the whole point was to have the confidence to not fight, but to only defend yourself when necessary. I think the mass comercialization of marital arts has cheapended it severely. I draw a comparison between a Black Belt and the Eagle Rank. At one time having a Black Belt impressed the general public as did the Eagle Rank. Today, having a Black Belt means you bought one at your franchised Dojo. But Eagle still means the same because the standards have not been weakended. (ok, debatable point, but definitely not as watered down as the Marital Arts). The employees at the marital places are happy to tell you the Black Belt rate of their students, and beleive me, its not 5% (high estimate to prove a point) make black belt in 6-7 years. No commercial Dojo would stay in business if that was true. The cheapening of Marital Arts ranks is a model Scouting can use to see what happens when standards are relaxed. Now, a disclaimer to serious students of the marital arts. Those who take it seriously and follow both the mental and physical standards of non-commercial Sensei. I know you are out there, and you guys I really repect.

I thought Marco Polo brought the Pizza, at least its recipe, back from China(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

In the old days multiple carnivals used to travel across the country. Many had animal acts and a term came into use. "one trick pony", it was generic for any animal, or person, who could only do one thing. Well folks, Merlyn is a type of One Trick Pony. He does not want any governmental unit chartering Boy Scout units, thats it. Its not a question of how much he likes, knows about, or cares about the program, its about governmental units chartering BSA units. I dont think Merlyn wants to destroy Boy Scouts, he just doesnt want governmental units to charter Boy Scout units. Actually, he has not to my recollection ever advocated Boy Scouts change its membership rules to admit Atheists, just has pointed out that we discrminate against them and therefore governmental units can not charter BSA units.(Merlyn, Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, although I know you would with or without my permission ) If we are going to argue with Merlyn, we should argue whether or not governmental units should be allowed to charter BSA units. thats all. Now, I hate to admit this, but I for one have sorta benefited from Merlyn's posts. Took me awhile to see what Merlyn was saying because of how deeply I am emotionally invested in the Boy Scouts. If I was looking for a Charter Organization for a BSA unit, I would not want to use a Governmental Unit. The litigation merlyn refers to will some day be settled. It may be a few years, maybe more, but unless some really radical things happen, I can see the courts ruling in the favor of the Atheists. I wouldnt want to be building a program and have to change CO's. The Dale case ruled that as a private organization, we are able to set our own membership rules. In the future, the part about us being a private oranization with restrictive mebership criteria is going to be the key that will make governmental units unable to sponsor BSA units. I agree we have the right to set our own membership criteria, I also think units with CO's that are governmental units should have a Plan B somewhere in the archives in case the court rulings are not in favor of the BSA.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

"I read of a couple Scout troops that went to the Pentagon and supplied water to the rescue workers after the ragheads attacked." The preceeding announcement was a personal commentary and does not represent the volunteers or management of this station or its subsidiaries. Thank you for watching. Please stay tuned for our regularly scheduled programing. You rascal FOG, using a racial Epithet like that in full disregard of all scouting principles just to make a point to all those who read these forums. I do have a question, what was your point?

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I would like to see a merit badge on the lines of the Venture "Outdoor Living History" elective merit badge. Sample Requirements: Build a scale model of a log cabin (no pre-cut Lincoln Logs allowed, come to think of it, Hops, do you know what a Lincoln Log is?)or maybe a Sod Hut Help build a real Log Cabin or Sod hut Prepare a week end of meals from an 18th century menu Put together a period costume, Research typical educational and receational opportunities for the youth of that time period Comparative Religion Sample Requirements Earn your faith's Religious award Study at least two other Faiths and learn about simularities and differences Attend worship services in other fatih's buildings Etiquette Merit Badge Sample Requirements How to set a table for a 7 course meal Demonsrate proper use of flatware for a 7 course meal (yes, means they have to eat one) Proper fomal methods of introducing people, self Explain when thank you notes are indicated Explain the need for diction

There is a saying that there are two things that should not be discussed in public, Politics and Religion. I have always thought muscical taste should be the third. When this thread started, I thought, Oh Uh, this is going to end badly but it got off to a good start with people listing their favorite bands and no one decrying another's choice then Ed has to go and insult a choice. Musical taste cannot be defended on anything but a gut, emotional level. I am saddened to think we as scouter could not refrain from denigrating anothers choice. Now, just for clarity Ed, are you Ewwwwwwwwwwing Black Sabbath during their Ozzy period or post Ozzy(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Hey FOG Again welcome to the forum, we can use your slightly cynical, acerbic wit that questions the way BSA does things. I think you add a different perspective to the forum that is valuable,(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I probably could have done better categorizng my musical taste: Just let me hear some of that Rock And Roll Music, Any old way you choose it; It's got a back beat, you can't lose it, Any old time you use it. It's gotta be Rock And Roll Music, If you want to dance with me, If you want to dance with me. I've got no kick againt modern jazz, Unless they try to play it too darn fast; And change the beauty of the melody, Until they sounded like a symphony, That's why I go for that Rock And Roll Music ...

Puddle of Mud, P.O.D., Green Day, Staind, Beatles, Steppenwolf and Foreigner

ROFALMHO

What makes scouting great? lets see now Its the combination of a seemingly disparate number of adults and youth who while having many differences, all have the same Ideals Its breaking up the Units into small cohesive teams, in Cubs its dens, in Boy Scouts its Patrols and in Venturing its Crews and in Varisty they are called Teams (imagine that !!!) In any of the progams its the use of the Outdoors as the primary tool to teach about self confidence, life skills and the majesty of the Lord Its the Advancement system that rewards youth with tangible proof and recognition before peers and family of attaining specified goals. Its the Personal Growth that both youth and adults can see in themselves and others by association to the program. Accomplishing tasks thought impossible before, almost become routine. For the youth its the Adult Association, being with role models and finding out about the world from experienced hands. And the adults benefit from the youth as well, as is often said, "hey the kids keep me young" Its the Leadership Development, the ability of the youth to chart their own course, to have a say in what gets done, where they go and how well it turns out. Ideally, they just dont have a say, they do it all and can translate that experience to other aspects of their life. We wear a Uniform. and although under attack for quality and cost, (even by moi) that uniform is known and respected throughout the country, as attested to by several forum membes For all these reasons, and lastly because its just plain FUN! Scouting, as Tony the Tiger might say "IS GRRRRRRRREEEEEAAAAAAAATTTTTTT, BTW Mark, those of us active in the Venture Program would like to think we are also making a difference in the lives of a few female youth as well.

FOG, Welcome to the forum. You may have got a lemon of a uniform there. I was an Asst Scoutmaster at the 2001 National Jamboree and the two short sleeve shirts I bought for that trip are still quite serviceable. I have seen scouts uniforms crumpled, soiled, and an alsolute mess but after being washed, they look pretty good. I think complaints about the uniform, and the cost, quality, etc is just obfuscation. In our troop the new crossovers almost always come with a complete uniform down to the socks and belt. I am not sure why cost wasnt an issue when the initial complete uniform was bought, but replacing pants when the originals are outgrowned is. And I would love to buy a higher quality car at less cost. I mean, if you look at the computer industry it can be done. If the automotive industry had kept pace with computer performance, you would be able to buy a car that gets 100 miles to the gallon, seats six and goes 0 to 60 in 8 seconds and costs 50 dollars. Of course, the thing would crash at least twice a day. I would love to have better quality uniforms at less cost, everyone would. I would love to get my uniforms for free, everyone would. But until Scoutopeia is acheived, we have what we have. BTW when I talk to kids who quit scouts or are comtemplating quiting the reasons are usually * The meetings are boring *I dont have enought time (thats kid talk for I have other activities that are more interesting to me) *No one listens to my ideas * We dont go on enough outings * My parents forced me to join, and this outdoors stuff just isnt for me. Not sure any of them ever said the reason I quit is because the pants suck

I dont like wearing a dark suit with a white shirt and tie to business meetings, but I do because I know as a consultant, when I dress that way, I establish credibility with my clients. At times I may be the only one wearing a suit jacket or tie, but then everyone knows who the "expert" is. I cant think of a more awful sight than adult leaders in uniform shirts and an endless array of shades of blue jeans. At summer camp on sunday night, the troops stand in formation for the first time. Looking across the parade field, you see a definte motley mix of what is considered a dress uniform. The shirt is always present, but its the pants and short colors that really add a rag tag appearance. Of course there is always the one unit who is in full dress uniform and they stand straight and proud. The other scouts are always impressed with them, but never quite enough to emulate them, that I dont understand. So, I dont like the uniform pants or shorts much,(but there are plenty of things I dont like to do, but I do them because they are the right thing to do) but I beleive enough in the methods of scouting to be in uniform, full dress uniform (includes pants)when ever the occassion warrants.

Agree with KS on the last merit badge, normally its Personal Manangement although Personal Fitness is a close second. Then the first merit badge tends to be First Aid with the "Citizens" running a close second. First elective? Basketry at summer camp of course !