DadScouts

For summer camp the camps give the Troop all partials.  I use to put them with the completed cards and patches to be handed out at summer camp.  I stopped doing that 2 years ago and toss all partials in a big envelope.  Not a single Scout has asked me about them in those 24 months.  (I do record the partials in Troopmaster though - actually not sure why after reading this thread.  May discontinue if a couple helicopter parent "leaders" in our Troop don't squawk.  As a MBC I would review with the Scout all requirements "completed" at a summer camp anyway before awarding the MB, that is if a Scout every asked me to finish a partial MB.)  

Actually had an EBOR have to consider whether or not the project requirement was done or not.  A Scout was warned several times, in writing, about pending age out date and Eagle.  (Got Life with less than a week to spare before.)  Delayed Eagle work (projects & MBs) until the last minute.  With the new (3-4 year old system) his proposal/concept was approved and he gave a Scout promise to create a project Final Plan and have it reviewed by someone, but never did.  Project was parent driven.  His project was the first one ever in the history of our Troop where the beneficiary gave a "cease & desist" order mid-project construction because the beneficiary was very concerned on how badly the project appeared to be executed.  Parents came to the rescue again; one workday session the only 3 people there were the Scout and his 2 parents.  The Scout even asked the beneficiary to sign off on completion of the project before it was completed with the promise that he would come back later and finish the work!  Concerns raised with the Scout on where his plan was during this time period and a parent, not the Scout, replied it was not required per BSA policy.  (A plan was written and presented ultimately but strong suspicion the "plan" was written after work had started.)  EBOR had serious discussion on whether or not leadership was demonstrated during the project to fulfill the requirement.  Very messy, but it can happen, and frankly should happen in rare circumstances.  Hopefully never again but I suspect at some point it will.  

I frankly prefer the old method where the plan was approved first but we never experienced the horror stories with District approvals like many have suffered, which lead BSA to change the policy on Eagle project approvals and the overall process.  We strongly, very strongly, recommend that the final plans be informally reviewed prior to construction and 95% of the Scouts do so, which has resulted in a 100% success rate for projects avoiding problems.  

We don't.  However, we do like it when Scouts have "Swing & a miss" projects since often as much is learned from the non-completed first attempt.  Our district/council has at least a couple Troop committee members on EBOHs and I make sure they know about prior attempted projected before the EBOR.

1. With your experience, join the Pack committee for a year.  Maybe they need you, maybe they don't, but having you available is an asset to them.

2. Join the District committee.  OK passing on the program chair.  Volunteer for the recruiting/membership committee and tell all those older Troop centric wonderful volunteers that the best way to help Scouting is to do a better job recruiting Cubs.

3. Watch, listen, and learn on the Troop side.  Troops are different than Packs obviously but the big difference is Troops are different than Troops, in addition to being different than Packs.  Learn how "a" Troop operates and then learn how your son's Troop operates.  After a year figure out where the holes and needs are and volunteer to fill that hole or need that you would enjoy doing the work.

My son joined a Troop just about 20 minutes away.  Knew of a couple of Scouts there but friends with none.  Met a couple new kids and became friends with them and basically liked having a couple friends from a different high school.  Worked out great.  (I preferred this Troop over closer local ones for many of the same reasons you stated.)  

Given your son's aspirations, he should have conservation service hours out the ears.  Training is training, leadership is leadership, and service hours are service hours.  

How about him getting trained (check), taking the leadership role, using the leadership role (check) by proactively going out and identifying a conservation project, get the SM to approve the project, get 2 leaders and a bunch of Scouts to show up so all the Scouts get service hours credit (check).  During the work session all takes a break and he instructs them on some LNT principals so all the Scouts have a better appreciation, hence satisfaction, that they are doing more than just routine labor to fulfill a requirement (checkmate)?  It's a win win for everyone concerned.  

Troop 1 and leave M behind.  M has a problem with the ASM?  That's a problem for no one, other than M.  Don't let M make the problem worse.

We are clear with our Scouts that their managing adults is definitely leadership.  Now, in practice, sometimes it is hard for the Scout to give directions to an adult and not the other way around.  Our more seasoned adults are aware of the issues and know to ask the Scout before doing work or giving directions.  Both the adults and Eagles need to be educated and reminded how it is supposed to work.  Most of the time it does.

Another problem is the Guide To Safe Scouting.  We actually are informing Eagle Scouts it is preferred that people bring handsaws to projects and not use exclusively circular saws.  Don't rent an auger but bring digging bars and post hole diggers.  It can slow down a project but that's fine since our projects usually have 30-40 volunteers so we have a labor surplus.  Ditto with nail guns.  As a result we have younger Scouts learning how to use hand saws, dig a post hole, and hammer 8d and 16d nails for the first time.  It tries the patience of our general contractor parents at time but they usually are the ones who love teaching those skills to Scouts so it works well.  

So what's the YPT protocol for "co-ed" units with male SM/ASM's? 

I imagine no different than all boy units with female SM/ASMs.  Regardless, BSA is asexual in my opinion.  Our unit has never had husband/wife leader team before but it has been discussed.  The Troop would insist on separate tents for even a married couple.

We average 4-6 Eagles a year, 70 Scout Troop.  Out of last 40 only 2 Eagled at 15; both remained hyper-active in Scouting doing Sr Patrol and then moving on to positions at Council (employee, NYLT staff, etc.)  Only really had one "Eagle and run" and he checked the boxes in the Troop and went on to resume pad outside of BSA to get into an academy.  Frustrated many but he turned around once at the academy big time and "gave back" then.  Good JASM assignments, beating them on their "legacy", annual high adventure outings in the Troop, and pushing NYLT staff help keep them engage well.  We also actively help some with resume padding and college applications and scholarship applications and that helps keeps some 17 year olds very engaged.  

Scouts and parents are welcome to attend but rarely do, except the SPL and a couple parents.  The SPL attends maybe half the TC meetings.  Often its really the SPL's parent is a TC member and the SPL attends just see what they are like.  A new SPL typically goes to a couple of meetings and then realizes he could care less about the monthly finance and checking account reviews/approvals and adult training issues discussed and stops coming.  Then every six months the new SPL comes for a month or two then disappears.  No big deal.  

Older son never a Cub and younger son only a Cub for one year then quit for Boy Scouts so I only had 1 opportunity at viewing this Pine Wood Derby mess.  My son took the wood and penciled in the design he wanted.  I had a small band saw and thought the perfect opportunity to teach my son how to use it safely and I'd be right there to make sure he had 10 fingers afterwards.  Well, he wasn't that experienced with it and really missed one of his lines on the cut.  I thought he'd be upset.  He looked at it and said, "Hey dad, look, I made a pickup truck!"  Love kids sometimes.

He sanded the heck out of it, painted it several coats, and was very proud.  We went to the Derby and my heart sunk.  Some cars had air brush paint jobs!  I thought again he would be upset.  Instead he noticed something I had not, "Dad, look how all the Tiger cars are perfect, since the dads made them, and look how the Webelos look normal since the kids made them."  I was never so proud of my son!  In the race his car didn't do that well, even among his Webelos made competitors but he had a blast and was very happy all the Cubs loved his car since he did a pickup truck.  Many wishes they had as well.  It all comes around.

Mess all around.  We require verification and PRE-approval of service hours, but that is all done ahead of time and if not recorded publicly for all to see in Troopmaster a Scout doesn't get the BOR.  Easier to clean up a mess before it happens.  No words on the knot tying, although our BORs wouldn't be shy about asking a Star to Life Scout how many knots he's taught other younger Scouts while mentoring them.

While the BOR/Troop is clearly in the wrong here the Scout could learn to handle himself better.  BOR members are in positions of authority here and respect to those with that power is rarely a bad idea.  Those in authority frequently abuse that authority, in the workplace and with law enforcement officers.  The advice to all in dealing with police who are abusing their power / are wrong is simple:  COMPLY and then complain.  Here these BOR members will abuse future Scouts.  How great it would have been for the Scout to COMPLY with their requests, acknowledge their authority, and then educate them at the end of the BOR the better way (BSA way) to conduct a BOR.  He would help himself, educate the BOR members, and save future Scouts from a similar fate if he went into that BOR with a different attitude and plan of action.  A great opportunity lost.  

In our country today, especially with politics, harm is being done by people talking AT people instead of TO people.  Furthermore, young folks seems to think that raising a stink is an effective strategy for change, which is rarely the case.  

Best advice I got early on as a head coach.  Young boys will go overboard to please and accept challenges.  Tell them what you want them to do, always ask something just a tad above their perceived ability and they will try like heck to accomplish the task and succeed, for you as much as for them.  SMART goals are never a bad idea.  

Not sure if I would be worried since it all depends upon the circumstances.  Different strokes for different folks.  We have many different types of Scouters and Scouts.  Age and goals and personalities all over the planet.  For our BORs we as Scouters have different unofficial goals for each rank.  Tenderfoot has one goal for us: "Is the Scout having FUN!?".  That's it.  Principal is we believe in our program and it will benefit youth but there is no benefit at all if they are not having fun and then drop out.  Second Class goals are: "Is the Scout learning anything?" and "Is the Scout having FUN?".  Get to Star and Life and leadership development is the main goal and fun a lower goal (at that age they are the ones who should be coming up with fun things to do).  Even some older Scouts don't want leadership development - fine with them as long as we can continue to keep the Scout engaged in the Troop by having fun then he'll learn something about leadership by osmosis.  We have a ton attend NYLT each year, and just as many don't. 

Our Scouters are all over the planet.  A couple are into OA, some high adventure only, a uniform cop or two, leadership trainers, skill teachers, and some are just there to help do whatever is asked.  The boys learn the personalities and the adults do the same.  Some gravitate to the Scouts they think they can help and some Scouts gravitate to the Scouters they like being with.  Some are super Scouts and others not.  

Having fun with a purpose (fun for fun sake is sometimes enough of a purpose), pushing themselves to try new things (rock climbing or public speaking) and youth leadership development are non-mutually exclusive goals for Scouts and Scouters alike.  The differences are as numerous as the commonality in our unit, at least in my opinion.

Since requiring the boy to request a BOR is adding to the requirement, we don't do it. 

I would disagree.  The BOR requirement is worded the same as a SMC, folding a flag, or tying a knot.  It is the Scout's responsibility to get each requirement in his book signed off as completed.  A BOR is no different.  Scouts start to learn at least minimal personal accountability by making them responsible for the ask, via a simple email.  Requiring a form, in triplicate, with multi-party approvals would be too much and adding to the requirement.  

(BTW, email requests from parents on behalf of their son are not accepted.  Again, Tenderfoots excepted.

After SMC Scout emails Advancement Chair no less than one week prior to BOR requested date.  BORs concurrent w/meetings.  A parent is often grabbed as a 4th member observer, particularly parents of younger Scouts, to sit on Star & Life BORs to give them an orientation on how the unit develops members in leadership as they age.  Scouts working on Tenderfoot are not held to the email requirement and the TGs work with them proactively and request the BORs for them.

Yes, Scouts have "no idea" what to do all the time.  Simple "writer's block" that needs to be overcome.  Our Life-To-Eagle person is good about killing immediately the maintenance work that doesn't qualify.  Scout is now bummed out his project is dead.  Perfect time to introduce new ideas.  Just ask the Scout what groups he participants in.  Sports, church, music, nature, etc.  Still nothing?  Then ask about family members in need or who have struggled - are grandparents in a nursing home where some activity areas could be built.  What charities has the Scout or his family members volunteered for in the past?  A little bit of brain storming usually finds a cause the Scout believes in - once that happens the Scout then takes it from there and will even push a square peg through a round hole to get the beneficiary to accept their first ever Eagle project.  Some don't. 

50% of our Scouts' projects never get past the proposal stage for one reason or another and then the Scout is better prepared to then go to a different beneficiary with a similar or different project.  Yes, just have to stop the shovel ready weed pulling and painting projects and then force the Scout to think and be creative a little bit.  They will get into their own idea 10x more than shovel ready.  Even if a project isn't the biggest and the best all the mini-failures and rejections along the way teach the Scout the life skill of project management.  Our best Eagle in the past decade had one of the less inspiring projects ever - but it was his 4th attempt with a 4th beneficiary.  The first 3 failed to no fault of his own or BSA's.  (A church folded, another church didn't own the land it turns out the church used anyway, a non-church said yes then later said no, etc.)  He still learned a lot and demonstrated leadership. 

UW dropped our council I think a decade ago.  Apparently not the BSA membership policy but the fact UW's funding was down and they knew our council wasn't hurting for $s as much as other non-profits in our area.  It also wasn't big $s to begin with so the cut wasn't severe.  Council $s are actually up here; partially since some corp matching $s have been reestablished with the change in the membership policy.

We see this but unfortunately not a big impact since organizations approach the troop or leaders and not Scouts directly.  We call them "Off the shelf" projects since they are all ready to go and the Scout doesn't have to do any planning, just executes.  A local elected official contacted me with help and I politely explained the Scout needs to come up with his own project so a thanks but no thanks reply.  She understood.  Rarely do these ready made projects happen fortunately since they tend to be poorly done since the Scout isn't self-motivated to do a good job. 

"Tempting though.   I like the idea of having the troop roster at the push of a button and then a push a button to dial the phone from the roster.  Nice feature."

The best part is the data stays local on the phone so a leader can access medical records even out on the trail out of Internet service.  Yes, the "one touch" dialing for anyone, or texting, is very very nice.  The whole "Did you credit me for those service hours yet?" is now always answered with a "I can't remember, did you look it up on your smart phone?" reply.  The TM Mobile is a free application, unlike their Dot.Net add on.   

Still playing around with the new beta version web product.  One great add one was a link to a Pay Pal account.  Yes, Scouts should be responsible for bringing in checks for payment for outings but there are some family functions that the Troop has where opening up to easy electronic payment to the Troop's bank account would be wonderful.  I just can't imagine ScoutBook having functionality like that anytime soon. 
 

Have used Troopmaster for years; the TM Mobile application all the Scouts, Scouters, and Parents love.  I just got the beta version of the new Troopmaster Web that is coming out next month.  Outstanding upgrade over the Troopmaster desktop version and current web version.  Just into it for a week now but 50 units apparently have it w/o issue.  I understand ready to release; just creating more instructional videos for YouTube before they launch it.

I personally have used Internet Advancement, Internet Rechartering, Do A Good Turn Daily, and other BSA websites for years.  They are SO outmoded and out of date I personally will never switch to ScoutBooks.  Outside 3rd party software companies have to make us, the end users, happy or they are out of business.  I have proposed modifications/upgrades to Troopmaster in the past and both times new maintenance releases were issued less than two weeks later - that is service with a smile! 

The day I am told or "encouraged" to switch to ScoutBooks my volunteer days are over.  Competition is a wonderful thing and monopolies are not.

I don't see any real delays here.  1-2 weeks for a Life SMC I suspect is the norm, except small Troops that might handle on demand.  2 weeks for your son but SM saw the delay and had an ASM step in for him to avoid further delays.  All good.  ASM likely isn't that well versed and asked a knot question for Life.  Certainly odd.  However, the ASM offered to ASSIST your son AND sign off on it this weekend.  The delay may not be kosher but a handful of days is a handful of days.  If he couldn't explain the knot that he demonstrated for the EDGE method requirement that could be the reason.

The presentation to demonstrate Scout Spirit is one I have never heard of.  Yes, units cannot add to the requirements but I do not believe in "throw away" requirements and this one just about is for all ranks since few or none know what it means and if they do no one can articulate how to apply it in a practical quantitative way per GTA.  Likely going too far but no one here can comment since none of us know the context.  It's intriguing to say the least. 

Hopefully your son benefitted from his presentation and learning the knot and will enjoy his Life BOR. 

I should mention.  Cooking is just an example.  I've been looking at rank and merit badge requirements since 2004.  They keep growing longer and longer.  I don't think there is more content.  It's just more pedantic and tightly bound.  

"Pedantic".  I had to look up that one and as a result learned something today, thank you.  (Not sure if I earned a nap but if I was at camp I would be hitting the hammock contently.)

Our system works well, at least for us:

1. SM signs off on Star/Life/Eagle since half requirements (service hrs, MBs, leadership) are Troopmaster tracked or they s/b SM anyway like Scout Spirit.

2. PL (if 1st Class) can sign off for his patrol only T-2-1.  TGs and Sr Patrol can sign for anyone, except Sr Patrol can't sign off during Troop mtgs since they s/b running the Troop and working with Scout leadership.

3. Only SM can sign off on the 1st Class "invite a friend" requirement since that one was troublesome in the past.

4. Scouts can no longer "sign off" on requirements; we now call it "Certify As Completed".  (Yes, wordsmith'ing but the boys know they are accountable.)

5. Our PLCs are weekly and TGs are included along with PLs, Sr Patrol, and Troop Scribe.  A great opportunity post-PLC for SM or SPL to discuss this topic.

6. We heavily encourage a Scout to teach a skill to a younger Scout and then the younger Scout then demonstrates that skill to an older Scout who then signs off.  (Using the manta of "One does not truly learn a skill until that person teaches it to someone else.")

7. Lastly, we have a BOR sheet for every rank.  At the BOR the date and name of the Scout who signed off on the each requirement is noted.  A random set of T-2-1 skills are tested at the BOR but the sheet says clearly the one being actually tested is not the Scout having the BOR but the Scout who taught the skill.  If a Scout is weak in a requirement then the teaching Scout is spoken to and asked to work with that younger Scout to teach it properly in subsequent weeks after the BOR.  Both Scouts are told why this happens so when that young Scout is older and teaching requirements to others he already knows that if he puts his signature in a Scout Handbook he will then be held accountable.  It also is a second opportunity to recognize the Scout and teaches him even weaknesses can be improved upon.

Nothing is perfect but this system works well for the Scouts in our Troop.