DadScouts

I think one of the silliest things I see, all the time, is some Eagle's photo in the newspaper for his ECOH with an Eagle medal and a Life patch on his uniform.  It just doesn't work.  We patch right after EBOR, GTA or not.  Far too much delay for ECOH, or sometimes getting the certificate back from Council/National.

Pretty much longer term sustainability is discussed for all projects where it applies.  Project coach, local municipality always provides input on longer term maintenance for projects on their land, and as advancement I will point out / discuss as well.  Many Scouts have already documented post-completion maintenance issues.  Even with forethought it still can be a problem seeing projects several years later in some decline but that's the beneficiaries' ultimate responsibility.  

Just last week I approved a project in a state park near a three year old project for another Scout.  I asked the Scout to consider putting some language in his plan if he had too many volunteers show up to his project to send a small crew over to the other project site for perhaps some clean up and maintenance.  He was more than happy to do so since that older Scout was a mentor to him when he first joined the Troop.  That certainly put a smile on my face.  

Never heard of the practice.  Our EBORs are "District" but the District insists on only one EBOR member and that person is a "representative of the District" and doesn't chair and is less active than other EBOR members.  Usually 3 Troop Comm members and the District rep.  As Advancement Chair after the SMC I meet with every Scout, review the paperwork (5 minutes) before it goes to Council and then I prep the Scout.  I URGE and demand they have to remember 3 things for their EBOR; Don't be nervous, don't be nervous, don't be nervous.  Our EBORs aren't as much BORs as life counseling sessions for the Scout's benefit.  Being nervous means they won't remember the discussion and advice given hence making the whole thing a waste of time.  Out of 30 Eagles I have told 28 they are already Eagle and will pass their EBOR absent of spitting on or punching a board member.  

I think having a practice BOR might make the Scout more tense, defeating the purpose of what we try to get out of EBORs.  I think having a post-EBOR troop session might be more valuable to the Scout.  Post-EBOR boards could be a great learning experience for all.  

Excellence on the trail. Sets goals and achieves them. Is a mensch.

If others were SMH, like I was, this may help us all expand our vocabulary by one word today:

Mensch (Yiddish: ×ž×¢× ×˜×©â€Ž mentsh, cognate with German: Mensch "human being") means "a person of integrity and honor."^[1] The opposite of a "mensch" is an "unmensch" (meaning: an utterly unlikeable or unfriendly person). According to Leo Rosten, the Yiddish maven and author of The Joys of Yiddish, "mensch" is "someone to admire and emulate, someone of noble character. The key to being 'a real mensch' is nothing less than character, rectitude, dignity, a sense of what is right, responsible, decorous."^[2] The term is used as a high compliment, expressing the rarity and value of that individual's qualities.

An Eagle Scout is:

1. An Eagle Scout before his EBOR.  The EBOR is not even needed.

2. Is a full adult, regardless of his actual age.  Period.

3. Is an Eagle Scout because HE WANTED IT - not his parents, family, or Scouters.  (Peers helping him along is fine - that's what friends are for.)

4. Participation in Scouting in hours can diminish but his impact on Scouting increases, and does NOT decrease, after his EBOR.

5. Has CLEARLY demonstrated, often, a desire to assist younger Scouts rather than insisting that his individual advancement be the priority.

6. At some point in his project process he took ownership and even pride in doing the project well rather than just doing the project.

7. Is a leader and takes the Oath & Law to heart.  When he fails he is harder on himself than the Scouters are.

You know it when you see it.  I wish these were the Requirements for Eagle and not what's in the GTA currently.

Look at the positives:

1. NO helicoptering parents!

2. Opportunity for the exchange student to educate the Troop on another country and their customs.

If the host parents are not the best at paperwork and if you and your leaders are swamped with other Troop issues right now this is the perfect task to assign to a less than active leader or even a responsible non-leader parent and ask for help to get the issue researched and resolved.  It is a limited scope ask/project so odds of getting someone to take it off your hands and resolve well are pretty darn good.  At the end of the project when the kid returns home you may even be able to assign something new to this parent who helped you.  I'm pretty sure that all the issues and concerns people are raising have been answered and resolved by some exchange student organization many times before.  You just need someone good to find out that information.

Is the mom registered with the Troop? If yes..  There are adult mistakes and then there is adult misconduct.  Call me a hardball, even with just a month remaining, but I would at least have a discussion with the Troop Committee about removing the mom as a registered leader immediately.  

Why bother?  Coaches and players get ejected from games for misconduct before games start, early in games, late in games, and even after games have ended. Don't give her a pass and let this person be dumped onto another Troop without warning.  (The Catholic Church did that with abusive priests and that didn't go over so well.)  Inform the new Troop, regardless if she is registered or not.

I echo what others have said regarding the Scout in question and love the idea of Scouts solving an adult problem.

What I look for in an Eagle project is simple; is the project the Scout's idea or just something a parent or someone else told him "you can do ______ as a project"?  A local state park has projects galore ready to go.  I call them "off shelf / ready made" projects.  Those proposals are a mess and typically weak.  We try to help Scouts early on think of a cause they believe in, find an organization that supports that cause, and then just stand back and watch a self-motivated Scout get to work with just some mentoring and questions being answered on the process.  For a motivated Scout scope and suitability are rarely a concern.  Work is secondary to planning and they learn "life skills" like permits, migrating through silly GTSS requirements (only Scouts a certain age can use a paint roller with a pole attached), and make sure they plan some more.  Construction day the only tools they should use are a clipboard and a pencil and he's in charge and not the adults.  Usually works well.    

In 12 yrs maybe 20% of Eagles get Palms.  Half one, half two, none more than 3.  Just reviewed the list; pretty much the cream of the crop but NO parents pushing.  Funny thing is I recall a few parents pushing for Eagle earlier just so kid could get palms and that pushing ended up being counter productive so it took the kids longer to get Eagle and none got palms.  

We assign a project for each Scout looking for a palm.  Nothing major:  mentoring Sr Patrol, writing up a job description for a couple positions, or mentoring Troop Guides with new Scouts for a couple months.  It works well.  

Last 2 Palm BORs we had we actually had the Scouts come in wearing a suit and tie with resumes for practice job/college interviews. Half the BOR was the mock interview and half was more BSA BOR.  We even held the BORs at a local business instead of a normal Troop venue.  Went well and the Scouts learned a lot.  (Pls spare me any comments on BSA BORs w/o BSA uniforms; the suit and tie and resume review format was far more beneficial to these young men.)

We do the standard Eagle kit and then buy a shadow box frame that hold the Eagle certificate and an Eagle medal.  We buy a second stand alone Eagle medal so the Scout doesn't have to take the frame apart to wear his Eagle medal at subsequent ECOHs for other Scouts.  Food, drinks, cake - all that is on the family.

Our Troop is looking for an "opportunity" here.  Chaplain Aide in our Troop, right or wrong, has been an underutilized POR that traditionally exhibits a low level of leadership.  We're using these new DTG requirements to change that.  Each Scout will sit and have a brief chat w/the Chaplain Aide and a short half-sheet will be completed that the requirement was discussed and met.  Scout then takes the sheet to the SM for the SMC.

The Chaplain Aide will be trained by the SM and Chaplain to make sure this does not turn into more than it should.  At the very least the Chaplain Aide will learn more interpersonal skills.  The Scout, either Tenderfoot or Life, will learn to enunciate to a peer level Scout the particulars of the requirement and what Duty to God means to him.  It'll most likely happen at his Life or Eagle BORs so might as well prepare for it.  

Another step?  Yes, of course; it's a new requirement after all.  It won't be a burden and hopefully will be a useful exercise for all.  

Took EMT course decades ago in college.  Worked 5 miles from a wilderness area for 4 summers.  2 of my kids became EMTs in HS.  Took Scouts on a week long trek to a true wilderness setting where medivac helicopters cannot fly due to altitude so the military would have to be called in.  I fully agree Philmont is not wilderness.  I have been WFA certified twice.

I think WFA is a useful course that teaches you a few things and one useful thing.  If something happens out there as a Scouter - you are screwed.  Don't treat something severe and the Scout dies.  Treat the Scout, in ways you would never dream of treating if at home, and the Scout dies.  Treat the Scout and IF he lives odds are good some type of permanent injury so even if you saved the kid's life if the parents are jerks you get sued and lose your house.

The one useful thing learned?  In a wilderness setting an ounce of prevention is not worth a pound of cure but rather half a ton of cure.  It helps you plan well to avoid being in a win-less situation.  Required for outings for BSA?  Would be a joke.  Too expensive and not enough places offer it.  Require for a wilderness trek?  Not a bad idea.   

I think "develop and demonstrate leadership ability" can be pretty clear.  It is definitely not the Live the Oath & Law in everyday life bit.  Like 98% of all problems, communication avoids them and lack thereof creates them.  An Eagle Scout certainly can be held to a much higher standard of being responsible for reading the requirement.  That requirement is mentioned no where in Scouting so the Scout can, and should, ask and should never ever assume.

Most of our Palms are former SPLs.  We reserve JASMs for ex-SPLs who served their term w/o problems, are an Eagle, and agree to and develop a post-Eagle project to "give back".  Up to the Scout - usually creating a 90 day program that the Scout wants to do like writing and communicating job descriptions or policies to help the Scouts move into senior leadership positions that these Eagles just served in.  Certainly an Eagle Scout knows full well BSA has rules and paperwork - like the real world.  Certainly an Eagle serving as ASPL, even semi-actively but doing an OK job, would meet the 90 day leadership requirement.  We've never had a problem.  Some have asked 30 days post-Eagle how to get a BOR 60 days later - they are told they have to at least do something and then it all works out, but the clock starts then, not as of the Eagle date unless the Scout is still serving actively in a leadership position already.  

Had, under the old system (pre-"concept approval"), a hospital's facility and paid staff go through all the details to get exactly what they wanted out of the project from the Eagle.  He did a nice job.  Project went to volunteer hospital board of directors for the rubber stamp approval and the wheels fell off.  Big disagreements between paid staff and board of directors.  He eventually dropped the whole thing and did a project at a library instead.  It happens.  Part of the process.  About 50% of project ideas blow up due to no fault of the Scout.  (Employee leaves, property sold, insurance issues, etc - but usually earlier in the process.)  Other projects were cancelled where the Scout himself blew some steps and made it not workable, including one of my sons.

This is just one reason I abhor the idea of scouts acting as foreman for a contracting project. These building projects require too much adult participation.

I disagree.  I think any 16 or 17 year old, who will be an Eagle Scout, is a year or two ahead of his peers in terms of maturity and leadership.  As such I treat Eagle candidates as adults.  If any idiot who can blow out 18 candles on a cake is an adult then an Eagle Scout who can blow out 16 or 17 candles is functionally an adult also.

I don't know ScoutBooks.  I do know Internet Advancement and Internet Rechartering.  

If the owners of both softwares are the same I will never ever even entertain looking at ScoutBooks given BSA IT department history.  

Troopmaster, despite flaws others say, old technology, etc. is absolutely wonderful.  Half a dozen leaders all have somewhat limited data entries rights and every single member of the Troop (parents, Eagle alumni, old Scouter alumni) have real only full access to all records via their website app.  Only medical records are restricted.  

The new Troopmaster Mobile application is outstanding, although we only use that in Read Only mode.  NO reason whatsoever for any member of the Troop to ever say "I don't know ____________".  If that still happens the "check the Troop database or look it up on your iPhone" are great answers to just about any question imaginable.

If BSA locks out Troopmaster I will only file paper advancement from now on and cease instructing others within the Council on how to use Internet Advancement like I do now.  

Just heard our local camp, which has a robust MB program and prides itself on that program, is likely dropping Cooking next year.  Just way too much to squeeze in during a camp setting.  They have some tougher MBs as 90 minute blocks for all 5 days.  Climbing is 3 hours a day.

ROFL....When BSA can't manage myscouting or any other information system? No thank you. I like my data in my hands and secure....and working when I need it. 

Amen!

We record in Troopmaster all hours served on a project, including the Eagle Scout.  We do not count the prep hours the Eagle spent on his project, just the "construction  day" ones.  We likely have a dozen service projects as a Troop per year, plus the Eagle projects.  All have sign in/out sheets for Scouts/Scouters/parents.  Parents who show up a lot could be ones we look to recruit as Scouters.  (Sometimes outside orgs, like the charities, ask us later for the hours so nice to have them all.)

If a Scout signs in without signing out - 1 hour credit.  Ditto for those who sign out but not in.  Harsh?  Who cares, try submitting a timesheet to an employer without in/out times or doing a mileage expense report without putting a destination.  Teaching a life lesson there and Scouts learn it quickly, without any real problems.  Our Scouts have service hours to burn typically.  .

We give an award to the Scout(s) will the highest # of hours at COHs.  For those we do back out the time the Eagle worked on his own project - it would be too self-serving to include those.  Service hour and attendance reports are printed for every BOR.  No litmus test there, at all; just for discussion purposes on a minority of boards.

LeCaster, sounds like you have a young Scout who struggled a little bit with his Star SMC with you and struggled a little bit with his BOR. But he "got it" and I'm not talking the checkbox requirements but he got the more important concepts that you were trying to make sure he understood. I see nothing wrong with a young Scout having a bit of trouble but overcoming it. He's learning. Better to be challenged than not since no one learns without being challenged. Will he get Eagle in a year? You think yes but that depends upon how much he grows and the bar is higher for Life and higher still for Eagle. Great for the young lad if he can cross those higher bars.

Our troop averages about 5 Eagles a year. Most are 17 with a few 18 by BOR time and a few at 16. Some leaders voice the "smell the roses" a little bit but none hold back Scouts. My son was the exception. A non-Cub who got Eagle at 15. Post Eagle Sr Patrol, SPL, JASM, Palms and then went on to staff Council training courses. He was an exception but a shining example "too young" is not an age determination but rather a maturity one and desire/motivation one.

Biggest issue I have with "young Eagles" isn't young Scouts pushing too fast but rather PARENTS pushing their sons. That causes problems since motivation, and often maturity, isn't there. Some of the best Scouts we ever have are SCOUT self-motivated ones who get Eagle in early age 16 range. In my opinion means anything, sounds like you're doing a great job with this Scout. Hopefully he will get the true meaning of Life and Eagle requirements and be a shining post-Eagle Scout.

I may get flamed for this but this is what I do instead of using our council form that asks for Career Choices #1, #2, & #3.

I have the Scouts write an essay. Give them a clear format and tell them in advance the purpose of the essay is to make his BOR more valuable to him as a life counseling session rather than waste time asking background questions on awards. I tell the Scout:

1. Essay is NOT, repeat NOT, a justification for Eagle so it should be brutally honest.

2. They have to answer 3 Questions in the essay: Who they were. Who they are. Who they think they want to be.

3. Essay 1-2 pages.

4. 5 Paragraphs long. Intro, Body is 3 paragraphs with one per question, conclusion and body could have a 4th paragraph if they want.

5. Since most of our Eagles tend to be 2nd semester HS Jrs or 1st semester HS Srs they are at a crossroads right now. Reflect on the past six years and then look forward 6 yrs (4 college and 2 post-college.)

6. I discuss with them what a journal or a diary is and this essay is basically that.

7. I instruct them they are NOT to sit at a keyboard to type it out. Take a yellow pad and lay on their bed or go to a park for an hour and reflect on how Scouting has impacted their life the past 6 years and how it may continue to do so for the next 6 years.

8. They shouldn't start writing without first doing brainstorming and an outline - basically actually do what they have been taught to do by their HS English teachers for years but likely never do since they likely rush to get English essays done at the last minute.

9. I tell them to do it the right way since they are doing it for themselves and no one else. I asked if they have ever reflected before or not and this is the time to so; perhaps for the first time.

10 Only requirement, other than being brutally honest, is it has to be grammatically perfect. Everything I do with Eagles for Advancement is Life Skill related and I ask them if they know what a "cover letter" is. Most don't and I informed them that college, scholarship, and job cover letters will come soon and they have to be free of errors so unlike the English papers they have written the past few years this is their first real attempt to be error free.

I then have the Scouts email me a "perfect" draft. I only review for 2 things - errors and whether or not it was written honestly from the heart or not. I want and encourage them to have the courage to make themselves vulnerable by being honest since our BORs never knock down Scouts at their Eagle BORs.

Never had objections or push back; not once out of 20. Had a "tough guy" Scout early on put down he enjoyed reading and writing poetry. It was an eye opener for the BOR. For about half the Scouts, after they give me Eagle paperwork to copy and submit to council about half the time I show the Scout the council "fill in the blank form" and ask them if the time spent on the reflective essay was a waste of time or not. 100% of them said no and were very glad they took the time to write the essay. 100% of the Scouts follow the "letter of the law" but the great thing is about 75%-80% of them follow the "spirit of the law" and write some wonderful things about their lives, how they almost quit Scouts at some point but didn't, how inspirational Philmont was, how great it was to be mentored and rewarding it was to mentor as young leaders.

Yup, not a "requirement" and if someone balks they'd be fine. I know the rules on not adding requirements but also know my true job as a Scouter is to develop and prepare fine young men for adulthood and appreciate what they have and how they've grown. It works and the District volunteers who sit on our BORs really think this essay exercise is a good thing.

All in the details. Ask for a SMC towards the end of a meeting or Friday night in camp? A come back tomorrow/next week answer MAY be OK, but should not ever deny a SMC, perhaps one of the most important opportunities in Scouting. Deny a BOR for a missing patch? Well walked an Eagle into his Bronze Palm BOR last week, noticed he didn't have his MB sash, asked him about it and he turned pale white. Told the BOR members in the room he failed and they could beat him up for the next 20 minutes for wasting their time. 20 minutes later they handed him his palm after some friendly ribbing, but also a little "Be Prepared" speech.

SMCs are in full uniform just as a test run / inspection for the BOR. If something is missing they are told to fix it before the BOR the following week. Not fixed for BOR? For a 2nd Class BOR with a Scout wearing a Scout patch the BOR happens and the Scout is told he gets his 2nd Class rank the night he walks into a Troop meeting wearing a Tenderfoot patch.

Star and Life BORs? They are held out as leaders in the Troop and expected to lead by example. Frankly, I can't remember the last time a Life Scout walked around our Troop wearing a Star patch. they are proud to sew on the new rank when earned.

Now, in camp we do hold up lower level BORs if a patch isn't on. A lunchtime BOR is postponed until after dinner. Frankly, nothing puts smiles on our leaders' faces more than watching a HS junior or senior sitting down at a picnic table in camp showing a 12 year old how to sew for the very first time. The Scout is then asked how it felt to sew on his own patch and the smiles and pride shown are priceless to witness. A poorly sewn on patch looks 10x better than one mom did or worse the glued on kind. (Just like terrible looking Scout made Webelos II pinewood derby cars always look better than the professionally made Tiger cars made by dads.)

I agree the practical problems mentioned will, in 99% of all cases, either not be a problem or the problem is easily solved or decided upon.

The "T" in GLBT? I am unaware that any state lets a minor undergo a sex change operation so that T is out. The others? A girl dressing as a boy waiting for that sex change operation is still a girl, so excluded.

Camping with a homosexual adult? Well if she is lesbian no issue there, correct? If the adult is a male? Well, I don't recall our female leaders hitting on the guys or visa versa - and that is with both man and woman being straight. A gay man hitting on a straight man at camp would be 100x less likely to happen than a straight woman hitting on a straight dad at camp.

Would a straight leader want to sleep with a new gay leader? Well, in our Troop, if they gay leader didn't snore like a chainsaw like the rest of us do then most of the straight men would be fighting to share a tent with the gay leader. (Yes, I am being completely serious here.)

One gay Scout? Odds are it would be an older Scout "coming out" and not a younger Scout. Friendships would have been developed most likely. Do not know how the adults would handle it but the gay Scout, and his straight friends, would likely share a tent with him like they have for years. Friends are friends and none of those friends would be his boyfriend so nothing happens. Straight or gay, any Scout who is a jerk would be the one without a tentmate. How the adults would handle this? Don't know. I'll tell you how it works out if it ever happens. The Scouts will all know who is gay months before any adult finds out.

What do I worry about? The same things I have the past ten years and will worry about for the next ten.

A Scout putting a knife at another Scout's throat at summer camp. (Scout suspended, quit the Troop, joined another Troop and now serving in combat this very day. Apparently turned it around.)

A 2nd year Scout dropping his pants and saying something beyond inappropriate to another Scout. (Scout is straight apparently; he was bounced.)

A 2nd year Scout saying something beyond inappropriate to another Scout, also sexual in nature. (another straight kid apparently, no longer in the troop.)

A fully trained leader, married (still is today), father, etc. Said/did something inappropriate to an underaged female in a public place. (Goodbye from BSA and criminal conviction.)

Looking for problems with gays? You're, according to the odds, looking in the wrong place and thereby taking your eye off the ball. There are bigger fears to look out for and, as importantly, other important issues to devote your time to in the service of our youth like leadership development, personal growth, interpersonal skill development, etc. The gay issue can be a distraction but only if you let it. Educate those who have issues and tell them what the real problems are they should focus their time and attention on. Gays in BSA likely won't make most unit's top ten list of REAL problems.