Krampus

I don't know what it's like your side of the pond but here parents often need considerable prompting to tell you there are special needs. I make a point of asking the parents of every new recruit, "is there anything else I need to know?" and go on to explain that can mean anything from peanut allergies to dyslexia to aspergers to sleep walking to claustrophobia. I've lost count of the number where they say no and then..... the classic was the peanut allergy I didn't know about till the scout told me they'd left their eppi pen at home. even worse was the parent of a cub who sent their cub to camp with sun screen "because it was on the kit list" even though he was allergic to it. Yes. That actually happened.

I can tell you that in Texas, we are pretty open about these things. The discussions are held privately and are very earnest. I would say that most discussions fall in to three camps: 1) Parents that know their child has an issue and are willing to discuss it and how to handle, 2) Parents that are aware there's an issue but have not dealt with it yet or are in the process of dealing with it, and 3) Parents that are in denial about their child's situation, blame others or simple blow it off as "kids being kids". That's as far as mental or behavioral issues.

As for health issues, 99% of the time parents are VERY open (again, discretely) about any health issues. Only a few times did I have kids with asthma have an issue and not have an inhaler. We met with parents when we got home and the response was, "They haven't needed the inhaler in years." Our rule: If the doctor prescribes it, you carry it.

Behavior-wise, we lay down the law. Violate the rules and you are on probation. In 12+ years only had to use it 3 times.

Oh, couldn't have been more wrong.

They set in motion this whole thing about the troop not falling under the parish at all.  that we are owned by the BSA, etc....  They were every bit or more clueless.

I think if you asked all the COs in the country, I suspect a VAST majority of them would think this is the case. I highly doubt that they understand that the CO "owns" the unit and it is an extension of their ministry.

Actually, the official red wool Jac-shirt is not for that purpose, either.  Or polyester or whatever it is now.

Really? I've always seen them with patches galore. Is there a BSA uniform guideline that says we cannot use the jac for that?

While I think experienced leaders in Cub Scouting is important, personally I could not do it again at this point in my life. I consider my time in Cubs fun, but it was because I was sharing that time with MY kid. I could not imagine doing that again. It would be like doing another tour in Iraq.

Maybe when I have grandchildren or when my kids are gone and I am feeling that empty next and cannot move as well.

Hat's off to those who can do this. Right now I just don't have the patience.

Does your Council have a Catholic Committee on Scouting which is the liaison between the Council and diocese?  I would contact that person for help in liaising with the parish.  You are correct, this is way more complicated than it needs to be.  I would also inquire as to what other parish-sponsored units in your council are doing and follow their lead.  Use the same bank they are using if possible.  It's not (or shouldn't be) rocket surgery. 

If he's in the south, the next closest Catholic unit might be two states away.

The problems are mostly it seems because the ownership of tax id is complicated.  The parish padre's are "in charge" of the parish, but the parish bank accounts were established prior to them being there.  The EIN's are tied to the diocese.....which ties to the bishop.... and the bishop that was tied to that number is long since retired....

just one big mess from my perspective....

And to your point Krampus, we have a letter form the parish giving permission to use the EIN to open the account you describe.... no problem there.  It's just when teh bank starts processing papers on the back end, verifying ownership of teh EIN's etc.... that things get muddy.

 

So, I'm left thinking our best direction would be to just forget about the non-profit status and using the church's number all together.

 

I just can't believe that with the probably thousands of BSA units chartered by catholic parish's and schools, that this is even a blip or a question mark.  Should just be done and done.  Really unbelievable.

Try this:

• Open a normal small business account and put the CC, treasurer and the SM on the signature card.
• Move your money to this account.
• AFTER all this is done you can add the tax id.
• We use a major bank and did not have to have a tax id or anything else to open a small business account.

 So, how does your summer camp organize its camp OA Call-Out ceremonies. Do you have the summer camp staff perform, lodge team perform, or maybe chapter teams perform? Just asking.

 

District has a ceremonial team. They are ok. The process they use for call outs --  done at spring camporee -- takes forever....over two hours!!! 

Out unit has done what my cousin's unit has done. We formed our own ceremonial team. We do our own tap out. We then send our guys to the chapter ordeal.

Last camporee, not a single one of our guys wanted to get tapped out by the district folks. They had already had the unit ceremony which they said was more important to them.

I'm a purist. It's called a merit badge sash, not a patch sash or brag sash. There's red wool jackets for that stuff.

Suggest this:

- Don't transfer the money just withdraw and redeposit. Use a bank check. Saves the paperwork. If there's checking on the account already just open the new account with a check.

- Use the church irs number. Open it as a business account.

Since forever, eh?   What you're tryin' to describe is da role of da Commissioner Corps, not da pros.

 

Not sure which item yeh think this falls under in da DE's job description.   Maybe Popcorn?    Yah, yah, yeh can imagine some vague connection to Chartered Org support, but did yeh actually read the expectation?  Visit da COR annually.  Make a plan to provide more support for the comin' year.   Nuthin' much more than that, and we all know that Chartered Org. visits are one of da things that DEs honor more in the breach, eh?

 

The connection to the professional staff is that only the SE can remove an adult leader from Scouting (usually after or in concert with da CO removin' 'em from the unit).  That's why I suggested movin' straight to the Council Commish and SE, eh?   Most UCs aren't really equipped for this sort of thing, and a lot of DCs aren't either.  Almost no DEs will have a clue.

 

Beavah

Sorry @@Beavah, but do they teach reading in your neck of the woods?

I clearly posted a DE's job description. If one bothered they could google the search terms and find several dozen DE job descriptions, a vast majority of which CLEARLY put this issue within the domain of the DE. At very least, it requires the DE to maintain relations with the unit volunteer leads and report any serious violations of BSA policies to the council.

No offense, but you really should try reading what people write, taking a moment to digest it and then writing your folksy wisdom. Like I said, if you read the first paragraph of that one job description of a DE it provides for them to get involved to stop what is going on AND bring in other parties.

It is closed now and the sign hangs in a pizza joint but was a Columbia, MO icon for years.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=liquor+guns+ammo+columbia+mo&client=safari&hl=en-us&biw=1024&bih=672&prmd=msivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjHtqTkvdDMAhUL7oMKHcaKAeE4ChD8BQgGKAM#imgdii=q8xtp8sfYGZsEM%3A%3BWXJVlzvSPQgLPM%3A%3BWXJVlzvSPQgLPM%3A&imgrc=WXJVlzvSPQgLPM%3A

My friend, I live in Texas. "Liquor, Guns, Ammo" is the state sign.

In the west part of the state it's "Liquor, Guns, Ammo, Steak". 

In the eastern part it's "Liquor, Guns, Ammo, Live Bait"

In Central Texas it's "Liquor, Guns, Ammo, BBQ" 

Along the coast it's "Liquor, Guns, Ammo, Fish"

Along the border it's "Espíritu, Armas de fuego, Munición, Tacos"

Because it's really not a core component of their job, eh?

Sorry, unit health and execution of the charter agreement is not a core component of their job? Since when?

DE's are always after me for my JTE paperwork which is tied to exactly all this.

The DE needs to get off his/her butt and get involved and bring the CE with them. This is an accident waiting to happen.

Read this @@Beavah. The job summary spells out the perview of the DE which fits this case just fine. What the DE doesn't cover would certainly be covered by the CE or someone under their joint control. A simple google search brought up 2 dozen or so similar job descriptions for DEs, so let's not say this isn't part of their core job when evidence says otherwise, eh?

• Don't expect the DE to resolve this. Just let him/her know that from where you sit, boys and girls are being cheated out of a positive scouting experience if this adult leader makes this drastic move. By the book if the SM starts a new unit, that's exactly what it is. The unit numbers stay with the CO. Period. Make sure the DE understands this and communicates it unambiguously to your renegade SM

DEs are paid staff, no?

Why wouldn't one expect a DE to step in a situation like this which would seem very much a core component of their job? 

Not sure what "trained just below wood badge" means. You use common sense and don't pontificate a lot?   You are in it for the boys and your own ego? 

Didn't realize they had banjos in CA.

That's right !!!! To bury the tissue or pack it out.  I know there are extremes but lets find a comfortable middle ground.  If you do not prefer packing out your poop do not go to places that require it (LNT #1 Plan ahead and prepare)

I draw the line at packing out my stuff. I consider it "leave no trace" if you, and the animals, can't find it.

I've got a Biologist friend that spends time with woodland critters. He says they avoid cat holes but seek out camp sites or dinning areas. Contrary to what some believe, even animals don't want your S.

yeah

it does sound way outa hand.

Maybe too late to even get into this, but the SM reports to you as the CC.  Sounds like that small tidbit has been lost in the drama.

Sounds like he's gone around, under, and over you.....

Maybe it does seem like a good time for the BSA folks to get involved.

 

kinda seems like you need to take a look at this

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/financeimpact/pdf/Fiscal_Policies_and_Procedures_for_BSA_Units_March_2015.pdf

 

and more specifically this statement:

What happens to the unit funds and equipment should the unit dissolve? The unit committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations and shall turn over the surplus, if any, to the chartered organization or the council, as may be agreed upon, pending reorganization of the unit or for the promotion of the program of the Boy Scouts of America.

I can't out my finger on it at the moment.... but something else I recently found said basically this

about the last sentence in the above reference....

that the CO can hold the stuff for use in basally forming another troop

or they might agree to pass it along to another troop... as in a neighboring troop/CO.... or to the new CO where your old troop is going....

....it's to be worked out between them and the BSA council.

basically, The SM has nothing to do with it.

It's in the Rules and Regulations of BSA and alluded to in the charter. The exact link is in the other thread on this topic.

Beer and guns...good combo.

Last fall our Cubs camped with this troop as visitors. Troublemaker #1 and his toadie went next door to a private campground in broad daylight and urinated in the middle of it to annoy the families there, which they did. He then lay down on the center line of the adjoining highway to show off. He mouthed back to several adults including myself, and terrorized many of the kids in our den and the rest of the troop. This was all in the course of about six hours. Then, a month ago he was at an activity with another troop and he and the same accomplice did something so egregious that our SM was contacted about it by their SM, resulting in a reprimand for those two and a lecture to the rest of the troop. I don't know the offense, but it was certainly unacceptable. So I have pretty current experience. 

Well, based on that first incident, that Scout would get the following in my troop:

• He would be barred from any future camp outs for six months.
• He would be limited to service projects and troop meetings.
• He would be forced to write a letter of apology to the park or whomever owned the facility.
• We would have a meeting with him and his parents where we review the troop's code of conduct, the Oath, Law and expectations of him.
• He would be told that ANY violation as profane as his recent actions would be grounds for us to recommend termination of his membership from our unit and that he would be barred from participating in ANY future unit activities. Funds would NOT be refunded.
• We would document all of this, have him and his parents sign, a district rep would be present and we would file a copy in our unit records, give him a copy and give a copy to the district.

ANY violation approaching the level of indecency you stated above would kick in his termination. 

There's no place in Scouting for that behavior. Your SM has his head, well....it ain't in the sand. Cannot believe anyone would let that situation go for more than 24 hours. That's just dumb.

There would NOT have been the chance for a second incident in my unit.

Sounds like it is time for the District and Council folks to earn their money and get involved, straighten out that SM and his family.

 

In all seriousness there was a particularly nasty accident on Ben Nevis (our highest mountain) over the winter. 

Great mountain, better Scotch.

Mrs. Stosh wouldn't get caught dead in pink camo!

Oddly enough it's a color spectrum deer cannot see. It is actually harder to see by deer than regular camo.

It's my understanding that the Charter Organization owns the troop's gear and supplies. Is this correct?

Sort of. If you read the BSA documents it says that the CO owns the gear BUT it is essentially "ear marked" for a Scouting unit. So, in other words, a CO could not kick out a Scout unit, take their gear and use for their own youth group. The charter agreement and supporting documents between the CO and BSA has that gear ear marked for use by Scouts for the Scouting program.

Not according to the BSA.  APL is nothing more than sitting around waiting for the PL to now show up.  So what does the SPL handbook and PL handbook say about the APL's duties?  NOTHING!!  So if they are doing nothing they are doing their job!

C'mon @@Stosh, you expected BSA to put all of their requirements, policies and documentation in one, single location which was easily obtained and cross-referenced? Shame on you.

From bsahandbook.org. Second page. And yes, it is considered an official BSA publication for APL duties.

Really?

Yup. In LNT training the key issues are more noise, camping impact, garbage/refuse management. Cannot recall a single incident in 10 years where someone has complained that Mrs. Stosh was wearing pink camo.

I think that's going a little far.  I understand bright tents but never have heard any issues with clothing.  I am a LNT (Outdoors Ethics) Trainer.

Same here. I can honestly say that topic has NEVER come up.

Now, I have had heated debates on packing your own poo.