yarrow

Opinions vary, but I see the purpose of merit badges as an opportunity to experience many skills, and learn about careers in those fields. If a scout, although not proficient in those skills comes out with a real interest in that discipline........WOW. A job well done. At least that is how I see the big picture. Half the time when you as a boy later if they remember the badge they won't remember everything, even if they read the book, but if they still pursue the activity I for one am pleased. Thoughts.......

Since my comment started this thread I feel I must elaborate. The policy of having Eagle required merit badges done within the troop was a troop policy compromise, and is a fairly new (one year old) policy. It is not backed by National an so is not enforcible. Our SM felt that boys earning Eagle required badges at Merit Badge Colleges were not going to get the same quality of instruction and experience that they would get within the troop. Once a year in February our troop runs an "in home" Merit Badge College, if you will. The boys can select from a number of Eagle required and other badges and we have breakouts after the business meetings for a month to work on these badges. IMHO I think the boys get out what they put in, whether or not they earn it individually, in a large MB college or within the troop. At any rate the individual scout can always petition the SM to take the badge elsewhere and I have yet to see him say no.

I personally have no objections to having parents sign their own kids badges if they do the work at the same time with other scouts. I trust other parents integrity, I presume they trust mine.

My boy has earned badges in groups, at camp, at MB colleges and on his own with counselors (with the required friend, scout or relative). His individual experiences doing the whole badge or doing prereq.s for MB Colleges have been the most involved and the most work. I have not found doing the Eagle required badges within the troop has provided a "better" experience.

Does anyone use the Patrol dad/sponsor method for advice and resource? We are thinking of reinstituting it to jump start our patrols. We don't have active patrol method being used although we have very active boys and a very active troop.

The Bugler position was originally a LOT of work. He had to complete the badge and memorize a bunch of calls. He also did bugling for 4 months and since then for COHs and at summer camp. However during the winter they have only had him play "To the colors" at Courts and so he really is only heavily involved in the Den Chief (and how). I think at least in this case it works and if ANYONE else wanted Bugler I am sure he would step down.

Sounds better outside by the way.

Can a boy hold more than one POR? I think my boy has been although maybe not. He has been Bugler for the troop, but has also been a Den Chief. They don't really conflict so he has been doing both. Don't know if that works on paper. He wore the Bugler patch until he was trained and now wears the Den Chief patch and cord.

Our local library has almost all the MB books. Some are out of date with respect to the requirements but the supporting information is pretty much the same. They also have older books which while no longer in use are good for entertainment........Beekeeping, etc. Check your local library too.

I don't run a troop so I don't buy the requirement book any more I just use the stuff online. Meritbadge.com keeps up-to-date.

Several books/badges are changed every year. Meritbadge.com seems to keep up-to-date. I don't buy the requirement book any more I just use the stuff online. The MB pamphlets get outdated in the requirement area but most of the supporting reading material is pretty much the same. Yep, swimming reverted back. They had LOTS of complaints on the 2001 changes. They were requiring scouts to teach scouts swimming somewhat and I don't think it was a sharp idea.

She thinks so too. She found some great sites, including one for a fellow in CA who build something similar to this as an adult. Turns out when she wrote him he's an Eagle too. Small world and power to scouting.

Celebrate with me. My second daughter has just passed her first interview (after the original application) and been given permission to pursue her project. She intends to build a hanicap- accessible raised garden table/s for the Senior home to help provide therapy and stress relief as well as an outdoor activity especially for those wheelchair bound clients that used to, and loved, and miss gardening.

What is your project and what challenges have you faced?

Now I only wish my 17 year old would get on the ball and apply for her project. The clock is ticking.

Ah well, we'll have to agree to disagree. Exceptions can always be found, but it has been my experience that 13 year olds are just not up to it by themselves.

I am not too close to the leader election and appointment process so I can't speak to whether or not the SPL does the appointing. In our troop I do know that we have, as a matter of policy, limited the boys to one term as SPL. We have 80 boys and lots who would like to and deserve to be given a chance at the coveted SPL position. We've had good ones and bad ones depending on their popularity. We have in the past during the election and with the support of the boys present allowed the election of the SPL and then the next 2 down in number of votes become the ASPL's. Hey it works for us, and they boys have supported it. Probably not kosher, but.........

Also the Scoutmaster always asks after the election, who needs or wants an office. I presume, although I am not sure, that the SPL appoints these with the advice of the SM. Don't know though.

I know my boy has requested offices and always gotten them.

Silver projects may benefit the Girl Scouts and or may improve their property. Gold Award, projects may not benefit Girl Scouts or the property but only the community (just like Eagles).

Andrews, my concern is for a system that may promote those ridiculously young and under experienced 13 year-old Eagles. For my part I would rather reward a 17 year old who has earned those badges and not have him be disappointed that he didn't opt to become a paper Eagle at 13 or 14.

edit, add :This isn't sour grapes, just my perspective, my boy is 12 1/2 and has a long way to go.(This message has been edited by yarrow)

Venture Crews are interesting and some of them even work, but I would personally rather see them still stay really active in scouting after all IMHO scouting is not all about the individual and what they "git" but also about what they can give back to the troop by way of leadership, ideas, experience and skills. And these boys are all of what.....a whole 14? Unfortunately far too often you lose these eagles to Venture Crew and I don't like to see these early eagles abandoning the troop. I'm not sure that that is what TXscoutmom had in mind anyway although I really can't speak as to her hopes.

Right you are Andrews......nothing says the boy needs to work with other scouts. They could work with a friend, relative or scout. They need to work in safe situations, but it doesn't have to be a scout. Our troop policy pushes working with other scouts to use our resources wisely and to have the favored scout interaction.

Add more singing to your program and campfires.......I found a site I like. I went to Google and searched for "sung graces" I think it is called the grace site. Many ethnic graces and traditional Boy and Girl Scout graces.......midi s too for those of us that can't read music. Enjoy

Here's my take

I have been a Girl Scout leader for 10 years and came up through the program. I have been a Cub Scout Den Leader for a number of years and am now a trained leader for our Boy Scout troop of 80 as well as the troop Secretary. I have also been the Program Director for the Cub Scout Day camp of over 200. I do scouts, as I am sure do you.

Boys and Girls are different. Boy Scouting and Girl Scouting programs are different. I wish they would get the two together and take from each program the good and get rid of the things from each program that drive me crazy.

The programs are structured differently as you know. Boy Scout troops and Cub Scout Packs are very larger and much more like 3-5 Girl Scout troops put together. Girl Scout troops are more like Dens or Patrols in size and as a result have some limitations in program and finances. Heck by the time you get to Senior troops you are lucky to have 3-4 girls. In a Boy Scout troop the numbers are not that different though. In a troop of say 30 you might not have more than 3-4 17-18 year-old boys either, but you have lots of younger boys providing more opportunity for leadership and variety of program. It is one of the Boy Scout structure's strengths. I might also add that the Boy Scout program nationwide is funded cooporately a little better. Not fair or right, but there it is.

The Girl Scouts, even though girl led much earlier, still reflects the interests of the adult in charge. If the leader is just not a camper, even though the girls want to camp, they might not do much camping. I provide a varied program with a slight leaning toward camping and physical activities, not because I love rock climbing, but because this group of girls do. Last year I had many more girls that loved crafting sooooo we did more of that.

Boy Scouts have more Camping and Leadership, Girl Scouts have more Service and Leadership. Both have badges (a little more skills oriented in Boy Scouts and a little more career and service oriented in Girl Scouts, plus Girl Scouts include the gender issues that women have come to focus on since the 60-70's). Men/Women........what did you expect. Like it or not women are more service oriented. The amount of service that Boy Scouts are required to do (of course some do more) for rank advancement until Eagle is a joke compared to what Girl Scouts do. Each Cadette and Senior interest patch requires a ton.

The path to a Gold Award is really hard. The path to Eagle not as hard. I have a 12 year old boy with Life rank and all but 2 Eagle required badges and a huge number of extra badges. He is not an over achiever and not particularily ambitious. It is just easier. My 17 year old Girl Scouts has taken on some Challenge projects that were harder than many Eagle projects by far and it's just one step towards the Gold. Unfortunately if you put Eagle on your application the interviewer says "Ahhh", if you put Gold Award they say "Huh?" Truly unfortunate.

Girl Scouts is structured more like packs in that they don't have rank advancement, they just move up by grade. The Gold, Silver and Bronze awards add another element but once again are service oriented. I have worked with 4-6 5th grade boys and 4-6 5th grade girls......trust me they are different, due to the delayed maturation of boys. Girl Scouts allow camping earlier and with less adults as well as cooking, real cooking not just combining, and knife work. Girls are just ready sooner. I run both programs the same, borrowing resources from each for the other. Girls like knots, boys like knots. Boys like rock climbing, girls like rock climbing. Boys like sewing,yes they do, girls like sewing. In their interests they are not that different.

However due to the small size of Girl Scout troops regardless of the girls' interest in camping, in most cases, if the leader is not a camper, they won't do much camping. If they were in larger groups, like the Boy Scouts, I think you would see mixed ages......some camping, some roller skating, some crafting.

Anyway I like both programs, and women are hugely important for both programs in leadership and behind the scenes. There isn't an Eagle that doesn't said something to the effect of "Thanks Mom for the kick in the b**t that got me here"

I am not sure I understand your question. Each level of scout wear grosgrain loops, or epilet ribbons on their shoulders to represent that level. Blue for Cub Scouts, Red for Boy Scouts. Don't know about the trefoil.

Reading another thread brings to mind a problem that we have been having in our troop and in committee and that is the checking of references and driving record. We have a large troop and 2 years ago discussed the checking of references (they are not checked at the council level) and driving record. We formed a committee to look into the ways and costs of doing this and eventually the end result was that nothing was done. We still do not check the adult applicant's references and we still do not check driving records. I believe we were told by the commmittee that driving records in our state can not be checked without the driver's consent, which seems to me to be a simple thing. Seems if they are willing to drive they would be willing to have their records checked. There is also some cost involved and, of course, always the question of how often to check them. I suggested as a minimum that all newly registering adults should be checked and then every year from now on. That in short order, what with change over, should cover everyone within a few years. However, as I said, nothing was decided or done. I'm not happy with the obvious liability problem for the troop and chartering organization. How does your troop handle this, especially large troops.

Sounds like a standard venture patrol. There are lots of high adventure activities available for them, but of course they need to do the things that interest them. Lucky you to have so many Eagles still coming after achieving Eagle at that tender age. Easy to lose them.

Here's one.........wonder when we had so many merit badges................

MOST MERIT BADGES

FYI...

Eagle Scout John Stanford from Limestone NY earned the most merit badges ever . total was 142 and he had a total of 8 silver palms by his 18th b-day .you can e-mail him at Eagle1@johnandjamie.com

Ok, I've read the requirements. There is provision for base camp cooking, backpack cooking and at home cooking. Has anyone worked this with several boys? Do they each cook for two people plus themselves or can they all work together in the planning and preparation of these meals for a larger group. We could scatter the cooks around the year a various campouts but wouldn't want to cut into the time needed for those scouts needing cooking for rank advancement. How have you worked it?

I found the site i which you were refering...............

What is the maximum number of possible Eagle Palms?

Here's a fun exercise.

Background information. There are a total of 119 merit badges currently offered by BSA. Each Eagle Palm requires five merit badges, three months active time, Scout Spirit requirement, a Scoutmaster conference, and successful completion of a BOR. Eagle Palms may be earned once a scout successfully completes his Eagle Board of Review.

Merit badges earned any time since becoming a boy scout may be used to meet this [Eagle Palms] requirement. (Boy Scout Requirements book; Eagle Palms requirements). There is no rule for how the applicant chooses which badges he selects for each palm; they do not have to be sequential (completion dates), but they must not be repeated.

To tally the Palms: First, count 21 merit badges required for Eagle Rank. Add five merit badges for the first (Bronze) palm (26 merit badges), five more for next (Gold) palm (31 merit badges), five more for first Silver Palm (36 merit badges). The palm sequence begins again so add five more merit badges for the second Bronze Palm (41 merit badges), 5 more for the second Gold Palm (46 merit badges), and five more for the second Silver Palm (51 merit badges). Repeat the sequence until you count out the maximum number of palms tallied from all merit badges which are offered in the Boy Scout program. If the current number of 119 is in place, this tally would be the award of Six Silver Palms, Six Gold Palms, and Seven Bronze palms for the total of 19 earned Eagle Palms.

How Palms are represented for wear on the uniform: "You may wear only the proper combination of palms for the number of merit badges you earned beyond the rank of Eagle. The Bronze represents five merit badges, the Gold 10 badges and the Silver 15 badges." This information is given in the Boy Scout handbook and the Boy Scout Requirements book (2000). For our Maximum Possible Palms example, you would place six Silver Palms and one Bronze Palm on the Eagle Medal to represent 96 merit badges earned (the Eagle Medal adds an additional 21 merit badges for the Eagle Award), this combination also represents 19 Eagle palms. There are three merit badges are left over which are not enough for a palm.

Time requirements: Okay, even if you earned all 119 merit badges, there is still the time requirement. For 19 palms, the absolute minimum of 57 months (4 yrs. 9 months) is required. Palms may be earned until a scout reaches 18, thus a scout must earn his Eagle rank while no older than 13 yrs. 3 months less 1 day to achieve this highest possible number of palms. All other conditions to play out this scenario have to be perfect (i.e. Scoutmaster conference and BOR both right on the 3-month anniversary day as well as the the active time and scout spirit requirements, and of course earn the merit badges.)

This is a fun problem, not one which involves opinion on age for attaining the Eagle rank, so let's not go there. It also does not take into account the reality of scheduling Scoutmaster Conferences nor BOR's which usually will not be exactly on the anniversary date of the previous palm.

Math

119 merit badges - 21 needed for Eagle = 98 merit badges left for palms tally.

98 divided by 5 merit badges per palm = 19 palms plus 3 merit badges left over.

19 palms divided by 3 types palms = 6 per each type plus one left over for, making it Six Silver, 6 Gold, and 7 Bronze. 19 palms x 3 month requirement for each = 57 months, or 4 years 9 months.

18 yr. (less one day) - 4 yrs. 9 months = 13 yrs., 3 months less 1 day.

How Eagle Palms are worn: Eagle Palms are worn on the Eagle Medal. (The Eagle Medal represents 21 badges.) The Bronze Palm represents one palm (5 badges). The Gold Palm represents two palms (10 badges), so you remove the Bronze one and replace it with the Gold. Silver represents three palms (15 badges), so you remove the Gold Palm and replace it with the Silver Palm. As each additional palm is earned, leave the Silver Palm in place and repeat the above sequence. This means that when Silver palms are already pinned on the medal, the Bronze Palm adds one to that already represented by each Silver Palm, and a Gold Palm adds two.

For the case of our 19 palms (representing 95 merit badges, setting aside the 21 represented by the Eagle Medal), you would do the math and figure 19 palms divided by 3 which equals 6 silver palms with one palm left over (one palm = bronze), so you would pin on six Silver Palms (representing 18 eagle palms) and a Bronze Palm (that's the extra 1 palm) to the Eagle Medal.

Now think about this one: a Bronze Palm and Gold Palm would never be worn together at the same time since 1 (Bronze) + 2 (Gold) equals 3, and three palms is represented by a Silver palm.

One additional note for the tally: We counted 116 merit badges (including the 21 for the Eagle award), and had three badges left over. If an additional two merit badges were introduced by BSA above the current 119 merit badges offered, and these two additional badges were earned for 121, it is possible that these five merit badges can be used for yet another palm. That additional palm is represented by a Gold palm worn with the six Silver Palms.

What has been accomplished in "real life?" Does anyone know what the record is and who it was who earned the highest number of palms? I think I remember seeing something in the Reader's Digest sometime in the late 80's, or maybe early 90's.

Submitted by Rosemary L. McCammond, Croatan Trails District

That explains my friends push to have her boy earn Eagle at 13+ a little. I know he will earn the list. Hmmm doesn't seem quite right. Seems a boy should be able to receive palms for the badges based on what they have at Eagle. Otherwise that late (17 year old) Eagle kinda loses out. This also might push back the Eagle age.