yarrow

What's the difference? Some one told me there were some obvious differences in approach.

I called all the SMs before visiting all of 4 troops within reasonable driving range and asked lots of questions. I had all the troops in a table which I presented to my Webelo den at the time and suggested they visit all of them and use the information that I had ferreted out as well.

I was looking for a large troop with lots of activity options and where I would not have to lead every activity. I was also looking for an SM that everyone was happy with and that had a young boy so there wouldn't be a change over right after we joined. I was looking for a resonable percentage of Eagles, not too high, not too low. Lots of parents at the meetings (not running it, just involved)

My boy was looking for fun and didn't want to leave his "buddies". The local troop was 6-10 boys. Way too small for my expectations. His buddies didn't do anything with him in school or after, just showed up Monday nights for Scouts, i.e. not too close friends.

I placed him in a troop that was "gentle". Not too agressive on badges, camping, but did a monthly camp. The SM was super with young boys. At the meeting I witnessed a boy led but NOT chaotic meeting. The boys were well behaved and attentive and the SM steered a bit if the SPL got too off track. He also had a neat SM moment at the end involving an ethical issue. The meeting had a break out after the business and he did some orienteering with some older boys and an ASM.

My boy was upset at the choice at first because he felt he was abandoning his "friends" (he was the only kid to cross over into a different troop), but loved it by summer. The local troop is forever having personality disputes and periodically blows up.

One of the other troops we visited managed to partially burn down their charter org.s building, lose all the equipment and get thrown out. They tended to do non-scout site camps and never wore uniforms. They recently disolved. Another we visited is still going strong, but they seemed way too agressive for my, rather quiet, boy. They have huge fundraisers, matching troop tents, full uniform, agressive advancement and several camps a month. Perfect fit for my over achiever older daughter, but not my son.

There are also 2 new troops now formed since we joined and the LDS group. I am willing to drive 20 mile to the troop we joined because it is a good fit for my boy.

I am thankful for my family being home for a few days and together. With hectic schedules I see them less and less. I am thankful for the roof over my head and the warmth. Greatful that we can decide what to eat for dinner rather than whether we can eat. Thankful for the opportunity through scouts and church to make a difference.

I think GSUSA problems still stem from the size of the troops. In a Boy Scout troop of 30 you have more expertise. In an cadette troop of 6 maybe less. I have Juniors and Seniors. I have had Brownies. We tent camped, knot tied, did dutch oven cooking with Brownies. They didn't run it but they certainly learned. My experience with the outdoor training session was that it was inadequate, but I have been in GSUSA for about 20 years and have had the experience so we camp. I can build a fire pretty much anywhere and bugs/snakes don't bother me. LOL

My boy made his wallet out of duct tape. Room for cards, ids, folding money etc. Pretty funny. He did it in the car on our too long family vacation.

Congrats, Sctmom, sounds like you found a winner. Good luck.

In our area between Denver and Colorado we have about 6 troops. All of the troops that I have been to, except the LDS group, have fair representation by women. We have 70+ boys and about 25 registered adults: a District commisioner, Advancement Chair, Treasurer, Community service coordinator, Secretary, and two of our ASMs are women. Several other women are registered but are just committe members. They are all involved and come regularly. The SM and Committee chair have never said, when a position came open and a women voluteered to take it, "ANYBODY else interested". The SM, a slightly old fashioned gentleman Eagle would prefer other men, but is gracious and never says so. I pick it up from his tone a bit. We don't have any overbearing men or women (well maybe one, but he means well. Just came out of the military and is baffled by how any other group functions at all). We have several women in OA, and most have had lots of training, several woodbadge too. Two of the women camp regularly, but they either have only one child or 3 boys involved and no other children, so this is their only child's/children's activity and they want to be involved. I have 3 girls and only one boy. I work with him on plotting a course for rank and MBs but generally don't camp. I have done training and camped a few times but as a Girl Scout leader with 2 troops I do all my camping with my girl troops. My boy has a somewhat uninvolved dad (work takes precidence over kids activities) and so I leave him to camp with the troop. That way he gets a guy experience with boys and other involved dads. He needs some activities with just guys (purely my personal opinion). When we do skills work with scouts we have lots of help. Some older scouts help and some adults. One gal, a master gardener, does plant identification. I work knots sometimes. I have always been treated fairly and equally by the men in our troop.

Girl scouting is a bit less uniform in many ways because each troop is as small as a patrol and so the variety of activities depends on a small number of girls and 2 leaders. Also USGSA is addressing the needs of girls in a slightly less than equal world. Their stress has become diversity, tolerance, career push, technology push. They also have a strong focus on improved self-esteem and drug,cigarette,alcohol abuse and pressures. It seems a little bit to be directed to support inner city a bit more. Still there are 4 areas of interest available to girls: Camping/outdoor adventure, Service(huge in USGSA), Badgework (no ranks), and Leadership (very big as Senior Scouts).

Girls are only involved in the Venture level with Venturing Crews. As I understand it, it is losely connected with Boy Scouts but is not part of Boy Scouts. Depending on the girls involved (also the boys) it works well. If the girl is inept at leadership or organization then the crew will flounder. This will happen if there is an inept boy in leadership too.

If your girl has not found a troop that she likes in Girl Scouts it is not because the Organization is flawed but it may be that the troops in your area have girls and/or leaders that are choosing activities that don't interest her. My troop camps a lot. I would challenge any First class to beat my 5th graders at knots and we cover all of the same materials....plant identification, REAL outdoor cooking, first aid, hiking etc. We do tons of service and cover skills type badges as well as some of the more touchy/feely ones. Any program is what the people in the area make it. Our Boy Scout troop is great. My Girl Scout troops are great. We go rock climbing the end of the month. Hooray for Scouting.

Wow, guess things are different here in Colorado. We have a number of committee positions held by women as well as council positions. Several OA members, and many woodbadge ladies. On some high adventure activities we open up to include family (mom, brother and sister)members. Just doesn't seem to produce the same knee-jerk reaction. Don't know why. Maybe it's our pioneering past where men and women respected each other more.

Sorry to see someone get so attacked at this site. It seems to becoming much less Scout "courteous and kind". Cut the young lady some slack and just provide a personal opinion.

My appologies for your reception by some. Yarrow

Men may be leaders in a Girl Scout troops and may come on campouts. We have had both situations in our unit and without all the fuss.

I did not hear a single woman or girl complain. The only time we have had any problems was when a guy drove his wife to the meeting to speak to the troop and then butted in and ran over everything she said. But that may just be their working relationship.

Yep, a small one in my purse. Although I use the scissors on it most. My boy loves knives and has a small collection and is always looking for more. He is a very forgetful boy so I am concerned that he will someday forget and take it to school. So far he hasn't. He clips his favorite to his pants as soon as he gets home. All men and women can benefit by having a reasonable sized knife on them. Very handy.

Have you thought about having him as a Lone Scout until he matures? There are lots of summer camps that take independant scouts in and out of state. You have obviously been VERY involved in his scout life so far and the troops you descibed don't seem too wonderful, but they are far from unusual. Some just won't live up to your expectations. 4-H may be another outlet. Some of our boys out here in the ranchland of CO prefer that organization.

Sometimes it would also be better to be a little less involved. We have a really nice divorced mom in our troop who was the SM for her son's Cub Scout pack, as well as his Den leader. She has made this HER activity and it didn't really benefit her son. He's pretty hard to live with. I am sure you are quite different from your posts but still a little less participation is sometimes good.

I had a mom who registered and volunteered for our GS troop all last year. Her daughter, for many reasons, is not liked by the kids. I find the girl to be bright and inquisitive, a bit immature, but well mannered, cheerful and loving. Anyway she was picked on and left out a lot, even though I stopped it EVERY time I saw it. The girl and mom quit. After a summer of reflection and an encouraging letter from me telling her that I thought the girl could handle this better than Mother Bear mom, the girl came back. I have arranged suitable patrols by personallity and Mom does not come. It is working sooooo much better. For the record I really like the mom and miss her attendance, but it works better for her daughter.

Considering your high involvement in Cub Scouts up to this point and your great anticipation of your son's participation in Boy Scouts, I hope you will consider Lone Scout for a year. Don't know how that works for advancement but I am sure there are cross checks.

I suggest all new parents in Boy Scouting start with Merit Badge Counselor. Not just women. Use your skills to benefit the troop. A number of men have not had interaction with other children and have been less involved with children's activities than most moms. Witness the predominance of women in most Cub Scout meetings, dens and pack events. Once the boys reach a certain age, dads become more interested and boys have more need. Dads need to learn how to work with other young children and learn what to expect. Merit Badge Counselor is a good place to hone these skills and then move on to other offices. Seems a natural progression for the new previously underinvolved parents....men and women. Our troop has women in several positions and offices. NEVER been a problem.

My son does lots of MBUs because so few other scouts are interested in the more unusual merit badges and experts are generally provided at the MBUs. Our troop has a policy that you must do your badge with other boy scouts so it is hard for him to find others interested. Trust me he has tried asking and posting on the board to find even one who is willing to do the odd ones. Most want only the Eagle required and some easy ones and consider themselves done. My son has never done a badge at which he didn't think....Wow I want to do that for a living. He gets into all of them although I must say it is blood,sweat and tears to finish any paperwork and writing. Some of the MBUs have been pretty marginal, but I know the requirements and can always tell what won't get covered well. He ends up doing more prereq.s than most and if I don't think he really did all the req.s he ends up doing them later believe me. Complaining about MBUs seems a little about saying what is wrong this the school they didn't teach Johnny to *fill in the blank* I always think parents have some responsibility to say show me. Kids do what we inspect not always what we expect. At any rate your kid will get out what they put in. Check their knowledge. They don't have to hand in a stamped blue card if you don't think they got the information.

Don't know much about the organization. Is it only in one state??

Did the personality type produce the team captain, Student council president, Air Force officer and by the way an Eagle or the other way around? Chicken and Egg. Don't know

.............Anyway OGE doesn't include the tremendous loss of equipment by my high-drift factor son. Both he and I have replaced a lot of gear.............laughing.

I have had a Webelos den for 2 years, brownie troops for 7 years, junior troops for 5 years and a Senior troop for 1 year, plus worked with independant Seniors. I also am the Secretary of a Boy Scout troop and volunteer at large.

The programs are a little different but boys and girls do do a lot of the same things.

The Girl Scout Program is a bit heavy on paperwork and permission paperwork and has a much stronger emphasis on DIVERSITY. No person of different ethnicity, religion, or gender preference is barred. The promise, while not eliminating God, allows for the individual to define God as they choose. There are not the homosexuality issues and problems associated that BSA is dealing with at present. I don't doubt that there are women that are lesbians in Girl Scouts. Generally that is not an problem for me or the organization as I understand it.

In the badges there is more flexibility in the requirements such that if you are doing a High Adventure/Rock Climbing badge you choose among the requirements to complete it.

For Brownie try-its choose 4 requirements and are offered about 7-10. Brownies are like Tigers-Bears. Brownies can camp and do. Both tent camping and lodge camping and the parents do not come along. Just the required trained adults. Brownies may use knifes and build fires with supervision. Whittling chips don't exist. Girls generally don't take the same risks with knives.

Juniors (Webelos and first year Boy Scouts). The badge level is about the same for Juniors as the Merit Badges for Boy Scouts. A 12-18 year old boy and 12 year old Girl will not have much difficultly with them. A 4-5th grader will have some difficultly with them. The swimming badge is very similar. You choose 6 out of 8-10 requirements for there badges and there is a lot of flexibility again. The girls badges include not only skills but a number of hobby/craft badges (boys have some like Basketry, Leatherwork, Collections, Art, etc.) The Junior badges expect more proficiency. Juniors is less adult led. Juniors focus on Leadership, skills, camping, Service, and self knowledge and improvement.

The Girl Scout program includes much more focus on self esteem, self awareness, badges on both, badges on current issues of drug abuse, and smoking, and peer pressure which you don't see at all in Boy Scouts or Cub Scouts except for a little in Webelos "Fitness" and Boy Scouts "Personal Fitness". Girl Scouts is still dealing with women's/girls needs to achieve in careers still largely dominated by men and to have a strong self image. All the badges have career requirements. Not just what's available but to talk to WOMEN in these fields.

The Cadette and Senior badges have a pattern of choice. You must have 2 Skill requirements, 1 Technology requirement(to introduce/direct girls to technology where they are underrepresented), 1 Service requirement(usually pertaining to the subject), 1 Career requirement(working with women in those areas) and then 2 free choices from those areas. There are 4-6 requirements offered in each area. You chose the most interesting for the girls or the most doable. Badges may be done individually or as a troop. Troops are the size of a Patrol. The Cadette and Senior Badges are designed for 7-12 graders and are generally more difficult than most of the Merit badges although some are not. For instance they assume you can swim and there is not a swimming badge as that is covered at the Junior level. The Water sports badge has other more difficult requirements which are in things like "Lifesaving", "Scuba diving", and "Small boat sailing"

There are no ranks. There are only levels by grade like the Cub's Tigers, Wolves, Bears, Webs.

Bronze awards are earned at the Junior level and are like the Eagle in that they have badge requirements and service/project requirements. The girls may do the project by themselves or with a group and it may benefit Girl Scouts or the community.

Silver Awards are earned at the Cadette level and include a Career pin, Leadership Award, a Cadette Challenge, Badges, and project. Once again they are able to do this on their own or as a group and it may benefit Girl Scouts or the community.

Gold Awards are earned at the Senior level and include a Career pin(hold a job or other options), a Leadership Award( at least 30 hours of Leadership within and outside scouting), a Senior Challege (working on yourself, with your family, with your community, service-lots, and a small project), Badges to support your chosen project and a large project involving but not limited to 50 hours of your own time (other individual's time does not count on your project but you must have a leadership aspect so others participate, you just don't count their time in your total). The project must benefit the community and generally is includes way more than 50 hours of the Senior's time.

My second daughter is interested in plants, so she designed and built 4 wheelchair accessible planters for a senior home, cleaned the garden area, moved rock and redid the landscaping, painted and weeded existing planters, got donations of soil, bark, weed barrier, paint, flowers, and wood. She led the men's group from church in weeding and mowing, and later a Junior troop in a planting day with the residents. It was tons of work for her individually and as in all Eagle projects grew beyond her original plan. It happens. She also spend a great number of hours with the residents just visiting.

My oldest daughter is pushing the time limit for her Gold. She is running art workshops for the library for seniors and youth as well as painting murals for the new library. Her interest is in art and has won many contests, so this is a natural choice for her.

The Girl Scout troops are small so not as much variety may be offered in activity. The patrol sized troop selects the activity. The leader may guide. We do camping, leadership, badges and service. Girl Scouts do much more service, as it is a requirement for each badge. They also do a lot of leadership. The older girls frequently RUN unit campouts, and badge workshops, and unit events. They receive guidance but they plan it, buy for it, organize it and run it. An event can include, in our area, about 200-300 girls and parents. A campout about 100 girls and leaders. A workshop 80 girls in two shifts. They RUN it.

Girl Scout troops tend to camp a little less but not all troops and they tend to do more badges. They have much more service and from what I have seen more leadership opportunities.

Anyway I like and am involved in both groups. I camp with both, and I guide boys and girls in badges. Depending on the troop there may or may not be much difference.

We have a weird situation. Some of our new scouts earned some badges at summer camp and then quit. The SM is disinclined to give them their badges because they have "quit". Actually the way I read it they are still registered until next Feb. when we reup so I don't think he can withhold the badges....can he??

Cool Dale.........I've seen the site but some of it was not clear. They have example projects, after you are awarded tell us about it and your projects.

Maybe I am wrong but I thought you could become a Lone Scout for personal reasons. ie any reason. We had a kid in our district that was bitten by another kids dog, badly. He has lots of scarring. To make a long story short the troop wasn't as supportive as they should have been and the parents got into it with others as to who was a fault (the kid is bitten for pete's sake) and they quit and he went Lone Scout for a while. The parents are now starting another troop. I don't think Lone Scout is a great choice but that's just one opinion.

I would get involved with your new troop and offer to run some program on the side. I occasionally bring in an expert on a subject and offer an activity or badge before the meeting for any scout who wants to come. I usually plan it when the boys have nothing planned and are going to do something fun like "Capture the Flag"

You can also, as a Patrol resource, bring in information to your son's patrol to give them ideas for activities and campouts to do as a patrol. Make yourself available as a resource. Kids can't go from everything planned and handled for them to nothing so allow them to ask.

Maybe they should be invited. Venture is enormously popular and is a mixed group. I imagine there are the occassionaly F/M interactions but most Boy Scouts I know are respectful and open minded.

His den that he works with is near us, but 20 miles from where his troop meets. They are not a feeder pack for his troop, just near us. He does not attend the local troop for a variety of reasons. He recieved his patch when all the leaders recieved their POR patches a year ago. The SM didn't introduce him to the pack, mostly because he lives in the next town but the Cub Master did. He has worn the cords although they were not picked up by the Pack or the Troop. I was actually asking about the Den Chief Service Award Cords not the Den cords. Any ideas?

We hold elections every year. I realize that OA is not supposed to be a popularity contest, but the reality is that it sometimes is. I like the at home elections. Less peer pressure. Is that in keeping with the process/ is is allowed? Does each boy submit qualifications on the ballot sheet?

New boys have difficultly in balloting as they know less boys in a troop as large as ours (70+). I know the first year my boy voted he said he cast for the boys that crossed him over because he could remember their names.

Our OA election official explained the process and yet last year we didn't have anyone elected out of 70. We then revoted after the SM explained that the boys that were standing were all supposed to be qualified and then we ended up with one. My boy is quite young and so not really qualified yet, but the boy I spoke of is. From where I am standing it looks every bit a popularity contest.

Do the awards need to be earned in order?

Bronze then Silver? If you do then do the badges earned for Bronze (6) need to be different than the ones earned for Silver (9)or do you just add 3 more?

Do the projects Bronze(3) need to be different for Silver (4) or do you just add one more?

The troop picked up the patch which he has worn for the year as Bear Den Chief. He is now working with the now Webelos (same boys). I picked up the cords blue/yellow and now the multi Webelo one. The troop, after some consideration, picked up the red/white/blue service cord and certificate. I am thinking of asking the troop to award the cords and have the certificate awarded at the Blue and Gold in Feb...........thoughts?

Asked the Advancement chair if she could pick up the Den Chief cord and certificate, with the appropriate paperwork. She said it was up to the Pack and should be presented at the pack meeting. I thought this was a Boy Scout award. How does this work? How is it best presented? Who buys? Any thoughts as to when it should be presented?