yarrow

Eisely, your reply was pretty detailed. Good info. Could you suggest a couple of sites. My boy and I need more info. He qualified last year,but was a first year scout and the SM felt it was a good idea to leave him off the ballot. He will qualify again this year but I am not sure if it is suited to his interests and time available. I hear of too many scouts that are elected and don't do the ordeal or if they do then don't participate to any great extent. How many hours can be expected in a year: of service, camping, leadership, etc.? If he is to put his name on the ballot and elected, a possibility, he would have a pretty substatial obligation in my view. Yarrow

I hardly know what to respond....I'm always surprised when I find such an interesting relic.

Underwear... how shocking. Thank goodness men and boys have the good sense never to run around in their briefs.

I think Philmont has a wonderful program and delighted it is open to girls and women as well. The Girl Scouts have some fabulous properties too. I personally look forward to the day when the Scouts support each other better and work together more.

There are more than physical differences between men and women. Eons of development have created physical differences, different viewpoints and approaches to problems...so what. There are competent rangers and incompetent rangers. Sounds like your group ended up with a problem. Too bad, really, it created an opportunity for a rant.

Thanks, JM. He'll need to wait until the next cycle. That works too.

Ok, if 6 months are needed for Life and all requirements would be satisfied by the COH date, how can you have a Scoutmaster's conference 2 weeks back of the date and a board too, or can they all be signed on the award date? Do they have to wait to the next cycle?

Actually this works out to 181 days between so it should be fine. Thanks for the clarification.

Not sure about how back-dating occurs. I may have the process mixed up. Our troop had a Board of Review scheduled in June and has one listed in December that is clearly not 6 months from the one in June. How is 6 months counted. Date to date or number of days........?We meet on Tuesdays and they are scheduled for convenience. We only have Boards quarterly although I am sure one could be scheduled on request. At any rate the Boards are separated by 2 days less than 6 months. Is this too picaune? Should the Board date the card 2 days after the board is complete to make the space between Star and Life work?

What does anyone know about the World Jamboree to be held in England I think in 2007? I can't find a site that works. Has anyone gone to a world jamboree. How does it work? I have a sister in Canterbury so this one might work for my boy.

Well I guess he worked out all the paperwork. I have been invited to the Eagle Ceremony the second weekend of July. Wish I felt better about his ability. Guess the council must. Nice kid really, cheerful and polite. I know he will stay in scouting, his mom wants all the merit badges, so there is still time to grow into this award. I think he turned 13 in June.

Oh and also I have seen some troops create PORs for rank advancement such as Webmaster? Does that fly with National?

How much say so do the troops have in defining a Position of Responsibility. Our SM is currently defining all the PORs and has combined several of these positions. He has created a Scribe/Historian position because he did not feel there was enough work in the Scribe position to merit rank advancement; however, some of the traditional Scribe jobs are not required. For example Scribe is generally in charge of attendance and the troop newletter. We do not use meeting attendance as a requirement for the "being active" rank advancement requirement and so the SM does not expect the scribe to take attendance. Also the SM writes the newletter so the Scribe doesn't have this responsibiblity. Generally the Scribe also aids the Secretary, although I, as Secretary, do not write the newsletter. The SM has done the newsletter for years and having only been here a year I'm not going to step on toes. I have checked a number of sites and POR job descriptions vary. There is the Leadership handbook job description and then there are troop definitions. Do your troops define the PORs differently than the handbook? How much can the desciptions vary from the handbook and still hold the boy to the job?

Thanks to all. Check the Macscouter site. Very helpful. I will pass the information along. Sounds like we may be able to have our boys in this POR even if the adult position is not filled.

At present, although we have a large troop, several adult positions are not filled, including Troop Chaplain. I do not have a gift here and am already in an office. Several boys have expressed an interest in being in the Chaplain aide position. How may they do that if there isn't a Troop Chaplain.

I had heard that it is possible to be an aide and use the boy's personal pastor/minister etc. as a role model. Does this work. Anyone familiar with the leadership book or have heard of this?

Are there any references for suitable opening, closing prayers and camp services. A site perhaps.

Themes work. We all see the same skills at camporee. A theme makes them seem fresh.

Patrol and troop competitions are harmless; however, for fairness a troop that brings mostly older boys should bear a handicap when competing with a troop that has mostly younger less experience scouts. I have seen it happen a lot. One troop has only older scouts come or participate and has the younger scouts do rank work. As a result the troop that let everyone participate pays for it by never placing.

Our most recent theme was pioneering/Y2K also. Good fun. We even had a conastoga race.

In response to the Girl-scoutishness. Girl Scouts and Boy scouts share a great deal of tradition, ceremony, skits and songs. It would be hard to say where each one started, but I would hope that the boys who are putting down another Scouting group by using "girl" in a demeaning way were called to task.

My Brownie troop uses the circle ceremony and I have seen it suggested for Cub Scout closings. The Boy scout troop I am associated with does not currently have a Chaplain's aide, our loss, I would hope; however, that if we had one that any inoffensive non-denominational prayer would be received favorably.

The Girl Scouts have some inappropriate songs and skits that put down Boys. The Boy Scouts have some that put down Girls too, you know which ones. I hope we can all work to eliminate this type of prejudice and have Scouting groups support each other. Isn't that part of our Scout Law.

We have had many Eagles come out of this troop but not many seem to stay active. I fact one I called the other day to see if he had a usable email yet said that he had just been approved by council, signed paperwork and all, to get his Eagle so I probably wouldn't need one. I think he was implying that he would not be around much longer. Now I know this kid is about 16 so he has a few more years until he can register as an adult so what's with these Eagles not staying active. That being said we do have 2 who are, but the others you never see.

I know, I know I will hear all about program, but frankly we are a really busy troop with lots of activities, programs, merit badge work, high adventure,community involvement, fundraisers, camping, camping, camping, and parental support. I don't know what else we can do to entice these boys and the venture patrols don't seem to come to meetings much and plan very little. We have a Venture Crew starting up but not getting off the ground well. Some of the same kids.

Lack of interest? Lack of energy? Lack of strong leadership? Lack of organization? I don't know.

My boy is really young but the future does not look promising. How much do you have adults work with the older boys? I understand it is supposed to be youth led but they are going nowhere.

Boy this is a tough one. My boy loves Scouts and the activities; however, he only wants to wear as much of the uniform as the rest of the boys. I insist on full uniform for Conference, Boards, and Courts but the rest of the time he will only wear the shirt and neckerchief. I think this is less of a case of embarassment to be part of scouting and more a case of not wanting to stick out. Witness how many of the boys want to have their clothes and hair the same in school. If the marching group were large enough then the boys would have "protection" in aninimity and wouldn't stick out. Our 5th-6th grade classes, the middle school and the high school combined have about 2000 boys. The scout troops in the area enroll near 200 boys, about one percent, mostly younger scouts where the wearing of a uniform is less of a problem. Sports teams of all kinds probably include 80% of these boys. Quite frankly if the percentage of boys in school who were scouts was as high as that of those in sports they would most likely feel more comfortable. Notice most boys are not embarassed to be seen in a football uniform.

Last year my boy, 10 at the time, went on a 14er in CO with part of the troop. He got up early and headed out with the group but by lunch he was obviously tired and kept tripping according to the SM. He was sent down with a group of boys that had had enough and apparently "picked up" by walkie talkie by the next group down. As the returning group neared the base (but were not in sight of the base) there was a mass "head to the barn" effect and my boy was left on the mountain. I understand from the SM that they knew where he was but he felt he was and actually was alone. At one point he decided he was lost and decided to go back up and then changed his mind.....there wasn't an established trail. If he had slipped on rocks I don't know how long it would have been before the returning summit group picked him up or the base group decided to go look for him. I was pretty HOT that the "buddy system" fell apart, but was relived that they had walkie talkies and supposedly knew where he was. I would have prefered that he had had a buddy and that they actually had a visual not just walkie talkies. Will I send him on another hike, yeah, but I did send an email to the SM to find out their story. My boy was pretty scared, at least until he got down and found snacks at the base camp. Ah, the resiliency of youth.

Does anyone remember Daniel E. Witte? Stunningly ambitious scout, bright, home schooled and extremely successful today. Earned all the merit badges.

In my small town there is a local troop. Currently running about 6 families, used to be 10 but that's another story. My son, on my advise, joined a much larger troop in a town 20 miles away and we have both been happy about the decision ever since.

The local troop several years ago was run by a family (SM and another office) with home schooled boys. Those boys had scouting as a big portion of their curriculum. I know their acquisition of an obscene number of badges did cause a lot of resentment. It seems inappropriate to use scouting as a school curriculum although I can understand the temptation.

I am still laughing about Kevin's uniform remark. There will never be a decent adult male GS uniform, I'm pretty sure, as there has never been a suitable/popular Girl Scout uniform. Most girls are terribly clothes conscious. Uniforms are not pushed as much and the girls don't necessarily favor the "Pseudo-military" style of uniform.

When leggings were in they had a uniform incorporating leggings. Skorts are still popular and with the advent of more private and charter schools the khaki and polo shirt look is in. The new uniforms look just like these school uniforms. We have had jumpers, skorts, shorts, one-piece dresses (before girls were allowed to wear pants in school), turtle necks, t-shirts, vests, dress shirts, polos, pants, leggings, sweaters, and a variety of ties, bows and hats. Can't make a girl wear a uniform.

I think most venturing is beyond uniforms, yes? Or do they too have uniforms?

Kevin makes some excellent points. There is a great deal of camping opportunities available to all Girl Scouts, not every girl or troop takes advantage of them. I have 3 girls in Girl Scouting and one boy in Boy Scouting. I am my son's troop Secretary having met all the requirement.....i.e. I was still breathing. And I was Webelo Den leader for 2 years and Program director for Cub Scout Day Camp. I have also led a number of Girl Scout troops for 6 years, and worked at 3 Day camps. I can tell you that the program for both groups is remarkably similar and that I have used the same activities for both Girl and Boy Scouts.

There are some differences though, most of which are in the structure of the organizations at the troop level. A Boy Scout troop has kids from 5th grade to 12th and so can have from 30 - 60 members on average. A lot of age difference and interest range. If you are lucky you will have about half that number of active adults as well. A Girl Scout troop will be about 12 - 24, although 12 is more likely. Within this troop you will have 3 grades typically and two to four active adults. More like a Den or Patrol. As a result the programs look different from Girl Scout troop to Girl Scout troop depending on the leadership and girls interests: camping, service, badges, leadership, or ideally all.

Boy Scouts have focused on Camping with some Service. Girl Scouts have focused on Service with some Camping. Many Girls who are interested in Camping may prefer the BSA approach and join Venturing later. Both groups offer badges and Leadership.

The Junior Girl Scout badges are very similar in difficulty and variety to Boy Scout Merit Badges and are accomplished comfortably by girls aged 10,11,12,and 13 this is probably why it is possible for an ambitious boy to earn his Eagle at 13. Girl Scouts earn other awards as well as badges culminating in a Silver award as a Cadette (13,14,15,16 year old) and a Gold Award as a Senior(used to be a Golden Eagle and then later a gold Eaglette award, I believe). In Girl Scouting a Gold Award can not be earned until the girl is in High School usually as a 17-18 year old. The ability of the older youth is reflected in the difficulty of achieving the award. Less badges are required (only 4, but most earn about 20-30) but other Challenges must be earned as well in Leadership, and in other areas including Career. The Gold requires a project, most frequently chosen in the service arena, less frequently a hammer and nails project. The girls must put in a minimum of 50 hours of their own time but over and above that others may help with the work on the project. Eagle projects vary as do Gold projects from 100 -3000 hours depending on how much the youth is capable of doing. Gold Award recipients tend to be upperclassmen in High School. Eagles vary but are most likely to be 14,15 year olds.

Each Senior Girl Scout badge has elements of skill, technology, career exploration, and Service. I think this was to encourage girls a number of years ago to consider technology and career, not as much of an issue currently. Every badge requires 3-10 hours of service which must be relevant to the badges area of interest. This makes the completion of badges an arduous task. The badges at this level tend to be less fun and more work than Boy Scout Merit Badges. Only those with a rare disease "collectomania" get more than 20 of this level of badge.

Anyway I have wandered off the path and given you more than you ever wanted to know about the differences in the Scouting organizations. When you see girls wanting to join venturing to have more high adventure you are seeing a small slice of the girl scout population that may not be getting that in their own "patrol sized" troop. Trust me there are troops that do a lot of high adventure and camp-camp-camp.

I am not sure you have the straight skinny on Venturing though. Here in the Denver Area Council the recipient of the First Silver Award was Amanda Bylsma from Venture Crew 911 so I know there are the same recognitions for both boys and girls. Girl and Boy Scouts aren't the same, but I believe in Venturing they can have a similar experience set up and run by the youth. In this way it can be whatever they want it to be.

Thanks Eisely. Once a month is something we are considering. The SM thought he would have the PLC mull it over and see if they had any suggestions. Can't have a great patrol if you hardly ever meet or camp as one. Working in patrols can also promote healthy competition amongst the youth. Who makes the best Dutch Oven dessert......... etc.

Mom, Dad, and sister worked really hard on the project along with an few church members and very few (count them on one hand) scouts. If it were not for a call from his mom on one Saturday, asking me to bring my boy and any friends he could, there would have been no scouts that day. Guess he is getting bogged down in the paperwork now so he will probably be 13 and a few months before its all over. He turns 13 in under a month. I think she was shooting for 12. Don't think he'd get much done on his own, but he is a boy of good character. I think there is much to be gained from maturity and that, frequently although not always, comes from a little age.

Wow, cool! A kid I know is finishing his write up to get his Eagle before he turns 13 so he can be an Eagle at National Jamboree.

My boy does not at present play in any organized sports. Scouting is his activity. Most boys in our troop who are strong sports kids give 110% when they are off season. I think they have a lot to offer. Some boys are never off season and have probably made a mistake taking on Scouting too. Usually it is mom or dad looking at an Eagle and not realizing how time consuming that pursuit is. Frankly if a boy is busy every sports season they will eventually drop themselves out. In the meantime they should not be in a POR. Like Sunday School compared to "real" school scouting has no teeth to remove or control problem or inactive youth. I understand the need to have scouts "get in or get out of the game" but I think that the boys will come to that conclusion themselves in time.