Bobanon

The WW II generation, my father's generation, are and were giants on the Earth. I don't believe we will ever see a more selfless generation. I know my own generation, the baby boomers, could not, nor don't have the right to carry their lunch boxes. I know many WW 2 vets, and they are passing from us at an alarming rate. The WW 2 generation is indeed the greatest generation.

Campcrafter either I didn't receive it, or I am not seeing the link on the tool bar for private messages. On ohter forums that have private messaging you will usually have a notice and a link to click for private messages. Either way, I don't have your message.

OhAdam, Good for you. The UU is a great place with fine friendly folks. I thoroughly have enjoyed openness of the people, and the friendly atmosphere. It is my sincerest hopes that you have the same experience. I know that I have learned much over the last four years. The books are all great reads too. I have plenty more titles if you are interested If you like you can email me at BobAnon57@yahoo.com

Okay Ed I am not a preacher or sunday school teacher who will feed you information like pablum. I supplied you with titles, now its up to you. Hunt I believe that the BSA would accept the charter of a new unit where the CO was a white supremist church as quickly as they would one from a Baptist Church. Why, its plain and simple......money.

OldGreyEagle, I have been everything from a Den Leader to a Crew Advisor, Commisioner, yada, yada yada. Right now I am between jobs (so to speak), and not sure if I want to continue with Scouting. I am pretty well burned out. And as you can tell from my post I do have some differing opinions with mainstream Scouting. That goes double down here in the Bible Belt. Ed again I will not do the leg work for you. I can post one instance after another but you will not believe me. You have to do it on your own. Your unwillingness is from one of three reasons: is it that you are too

"There is widespread faking of numbers in BSA - the rule - according to a professional - is "don't get caught." And BSA will make determined efforts to cover a professional's tail when he is challenged." So much for TRUSTWORTHY.

I don't necessarily believe that churches would suffer. If religion promotes discrimination maybe they need to die out. I say let it be and allow the whithering hand of superstition to grip us no more. I for one do not seen the omnipotent creator as anything but a loving God. He may not be interested in the affairs of man, but he is still a force of unconditional love, and the face it the god of the bible is anything but loving, especially unconditionally. First of all it is not the responsibility of the Federal Government to define marriage. Marriage in the eyes of government sho

The funny thing is I can see the BSA accepting a Troop or Pack who's Charter Organization is a white supremest church. Ed, you are going to have to make the journey yourself. I did, and nobody held me by the hand, or showed me the way. Doing the research on your on makes it more valid and more believable to yourself. I could tell you one item after another yet you wouldn't believe simply because you didn't sweat to find the truth on your on. I will relent and give you an easy source though. Obtain a copy of Dr. Israel Finklestein and Neil Silberman's book "The Bible Unearthed

Ed you need to come to your own conclusions. It is not my place to undermine what you believe. With that said, if you want to look into the issue further you'll need to spend some time and effort reading. I suggest: "The Fallible Gospels" by Graham Lawrence. This shows where many of tales of the bible originated. An example is the already mention 10 Commandments being taken from a Zorastorian legend of their 15 Commandments. "The End of Faith" by Sam Harris "Stealing Jesus" by Bruce Bawer (this really isn't a work disproving religion, but gives a consise history of fundmen

Ed extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You can "know" in your heart until the cows come home that God gave man the bible, but that doesn't make it true. There are several text that make the claim that it is the gift of god to man. Which one is the real book of God? I say none for God's business isn't the Book of The Month Club.

SaintCad it is nothing more than pick and choose theology. The unbending approach that Ed and ones like him take toward Christianity forces them to pick and choose what parts of the bible they support. Areas like Leviticus and all the nonsensical laws therein, is one example of a part they would avoid like the plague. Jesus said that he didn't bring a new law but came to support the old law. Which was the law of Moses, and those outlined in Leviticus. However, this point is ignored for convienience sake. Ed, I did point out where the ten commandments came from. That is factual

Ed before you go admonishing people about the bible, it might be in your best interest to do a little studying yourself. the Bible is fraught with contradictions. These inconsistencies are proof that the Bible is of human and not divine origins. Only fundamentalist christians take a literalist view of the bible. Lets look at some of the inconsistencies: Two different creation stories - Genesis 1:1-2:3, and Gensis 2:4-25 The creation of Eve - Gensis 1:27, and Genesis 2:20-22 A side note on Noah and the Ark. Consider this Ed; There are over 250,000 varieties of beetles in

Brent you ask why I left the Presbyterian Church instead of staying and changing it. I will tell you why. I attended the Presbyterian Church for over 40 years, and I loved it. I especially loved the congretation of my specific church for I had known many for most, if not all my life. It was familiar and family. The reason I walked away, and trust me it was one of the hardest things I have ever done, was because when I reflected on my own true beliefs they were not instep in the least with the Presbyterian Church or Christianity for that matter. If I have to put a label on my beli

Brent Allen, You posted: "Do y'all think there is a large group inside the BSA who wants this policy to change?" Let me start off by saying that I do not like the homophobic extremist, nor do I like the in your face gay extremist. Extremist from either side of the argument loose me early on. We all know homosexual people. When I have cause to discuss the gay issue I think of those gays whom I know or have known. When talking about gays I think it better to put a human face on them instead of thinking of them as "those people". I believe by and large people are more ti

I am not against free association per se. However, I do not support activities that discriminate against people. Espcially when it is discrimination based on unsound reasoning. The BSA can stay it's current course and see further marginilization and a more and more hostile society. I hate seeing the BSA in such a position, and do not like Scouts seen by society as a bunch of little Eichmanns. The reasoning behind the current practices of barring homosexuals is due to the religious teaching of one religious tradition, namely the religions that started with Abraham. The BSA sho

Eamonn, I know exactly what you mean! Paper units to ensure the District gets Quality District. Invidual units keeping boys (who hide nor hair has been seen of in ages), on their rolls in order to remain a Quality Unit, and all for a lousy little patch and a cheap ribbon to hang on the unit flag. People can call this what ever they like, but cooking the books is lying. My junior year of high school I was deeply involve in my Troop. Worked on summer camp staff and got to know several of the DE's. I told one that I was considering a career with the BSA and he told me he wasn't a

The Boy Scout Handbook (11th ed.) explains, morally straight as To be a person of strong character, your relationships with others should be honest and open. You should respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions, and remain faithful in your religious beliefs. The values you practice as a Scout will help you shape a life of virtue and self-reliance. By that definition supplied from the 11th edition of the BSA handbook, you may not be a moral Scout if: 1. You cheat on your income tax return you are not morally straight; 2. If you drink heavily o

Well said Trevorum. "I try to make every scout and every adult feel welcome in our unit because I strongly feel that every boy should be respected for who he is and deserves the opportunity to be a scout." That is all we can do, and it is what we should be doing. Eventually Scouting will mellow on its current policy towards gays, and non-theist. Right now the powers that be are operating from a position of ignorance and intolerance. Eventually that will change, and hope of hopes the organization will regain its proper place of honor in society.

Beavah the large Irish population in Boston are the offspring of 19th Century immigrants and are Roman Catholic. The Scots Irish are, or were Presbyterian.

Thank you Ed. Schools are the perfect Chartering Organization. The BSA is a good organization and and in my opinion the single best youth organization there is. I don't even see a close second. I use things I learned as a Scout everyday. However I don't see any inconsistency. Where we differ is on the subject of religion. I don't care what others believe as long as they don't proselytize. To me religion should be a private thing. Of course this is where I get cross ways with the Great Commission, and that is the fly in the ointment so to speak.

EagleDad, you wrote: "I go back to the Scout Law and Oath. One set of guidelines for which everyone can agree to behave." I agree, however I think where we differ is that I believe that moral or ethical behavior comes naturally to man if there isn't already some social mores in place. And too EagleDad you were right with your "Reason" is what seperates man from animals." Eacatly! And I couldn't agree more. By and large I believe that man's ability to reason through problems also assits in reasoning through moral issues. I am not anti church, for I beleive that we need to com

Good for them. If I were a Christian I would be either a Presbyterian, Episcopalian or a Methodist. Denying same-sex couples the right to marry amounts to a refusal that gays and lesbians are capable of love. I see the gay rights debate, or fight if you like being where the civil rights fight was in 1965. At sometime in the future society will accept gay people without a moments notice. Discrimination is wrong no matter what the reasons for. All people deserve to be treated as equals until their own deportment proves otherwise. And at that day in the future when all are acce

I wonder if Rod Serling was one of the wedding guest.

Ed I for one am glad you are not a sitting justice of the Supreme Court. Besides Ed, where did I mention anything about religion and public schools sponsoring Scout units? I'm not sure what you meant or where you were heading with that accusation but I am not opposed to public schools sponsoring Scout units. I bet that you hate hearing that as it will upset your preconceived notions about me. On the idea of separation I want to see the Federal, State and Local governments turning a blind eye to anything and everything religious. This keeps the religious field safe for every group

Ed Mori, YOu wrote: "Where in the Constitution does it say the church & state must be separate? It says the state must not establish a religion. It doesn't say the state have religion in it." While the Constitiution does not specifically state a "separation of Church and State" it is the spirit of the document. The U.S. Constitution broke the lock traditional religions had on government to enforce their practices. In American Colonies for example all had to pay a tax supporting the Church of England whether or not that is where they attended. Say you are a Baptist, how w