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Bob White

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Everything posted by Bob White

  1. Eagle92 I have responded to you by PM, and please...trust ME on this one.
  2. I never said that the pack should operate like that. I said that you were responsible for your den and not for judging other den leaders. The fact that you took over for all the absent leaders was your choice. I would never have suggested that you do that. Ever play team sports? If you are the third baseman, and you don't care for the right fielder, it's not your job to decide if he gets to play or not. Nor is it your role to cover for him if he doesn't show up for a game. Your the third baseman. Your job is to take care of the things the third baseman is responsible for. Nothing m
  3. Thank you for taking the time to understand Sarge. BW
  4. Yah Beavah sounds like more guess work and no facts. "High school aged youth like as not can take out a motorboat or sailboat in international waters on their own, with younger scouts aboard." International waters begin 12 nautical miles off of the coast of a country. Would you please identify what country's scouting program has as a program element the ability of high school aged scouts to take other scouts over 12 miles from shore into the ocean on a sail boat or motor boat. Thanks. emb01 Nothing you posted has any bearing on your position that because other countries h
  5. Jblake writes "When Eagle is just a recognition of accomplishment, it means just that. When Eagle is a recognition of leadership, it means something quite different." So you don't see leadership as an accomplishment? Or just that you only like Eagles who you feel earn the Rank for the thing YOU think they should earn it for? And yet you are disappointed almost every time. hmm I am shocked.
  6. Sorry Eagle 92 that just doesn't hold water. Many of the countries involved have very few or no professional staff other than a national director. They are almost all volunteer. So we are not taklking about the BSA stats, we are talking about the stats from the other countries. If the alternate program levels supported by some posters is in fact "the cure" or even one of the cures, then they should be able to show acual measurenents of its benefit. To say others so it differently or proves others do it differnetly. It shows no evidence what so ever that it actually translates into a meas
  7. Emb01 writes "So you think the fact that they end 'boy scouting' at 14 is why their numbers are comparable lower then ours???? No, not at all. I think that to suggest change based on what other countries do is a poor reason unless you can show some actual benefit for the change. Different is not automatically better it is just different. You and others say that the problem is the program level structure, so as evidence you show that other countries do it differently. What you fail to include is any evidence that their way produces better results. All you offer is that it is differen
  8. No inquisition LisaBob I think you misunderstood the posts. He explained how he felt about his beliefs and asked how to deal with scouts based on his feelings, didn't he? My posts did not condemn him in any way. If he accepts the reiligious principles of the BSA then he has no problem as to how he relates with the youth. He simply explains those principles to them. He helps them to find ways to show reverence to God based on THEIR faith, not on his. Regardless of what organizaed religion they belong to, or don't belong to the values of scouting are still relevant. If he does n
  9. Don't concern yourself with the opinions of Judeo-Christian supremacists. Instead know and understand the membership requirements of the BSA if you want to be a member or leader in the program. The BSA says, and every adult is required to agree to this as a member, that "no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God..." So if you do not agree or support that statement then the BSA says that you are not eligible as a member or leader in the BSA. You must decide if you are being honest about your acceptance of this principle or ar you
  10. Again emb01, all you have shown is that others do it differently. What you do not offer any evidence of, is whether they do it better. Can you show any measurable benefit of their program over the BSA program that is directly related to the difference in program levels. As an example, how many countries that use the program level differences you identified have more youth members because of it than the BSA? I believe the answers is ...none, is it not? Several of your neighbors may paint their homes differently than yours. Is that how you determine what your home should look l
  11. A weekend a month is tough on a lot of family schedules. You know a common misconception is that the BSA says a unit should do a campout a month, that's not actually what they say. The program recommendation is actually an "outdoor activity" each month. If you planned a monthly troop outdoor activity, and had only some of them as weekend campouts, it might not only get you better attendance but more variety in the program. Plus, it gives Patrols more incentive to plan their own campouts and outings. That could easily solve your attendance problem.
  12. Scouting is designed to let boys be active in other activities and still earn all the ranks including Eagle Scout. Keep in mind the BSA has advancement and recognitions based on a scouts participation in Band, Theater, Speech team, Team sports, and other activities outside of scouting. How can you want a scout to promise to be physicall strong and then not encourage them when they do so through sports? Participation in these other activities give youth a chance to show others the things they learned in Scouting. In Scoutmaster Conferences with boys as I found out what other activit
  13. NJ Scouter writes "I don't think the rabbit counts as one of the 10 for the requirement. It says "identify and show evidence". Unless NJ has a very different Handbook his quote in incorrect. The Boy Sout Requirement says Indentify or show evidence." If you read the handbook beyond the requirement page (page91 to be specific) you see that the handbook explains ways that the scout can find evidence of the animal. One of those ways is by track identification. It's important to read the entire handbook.
  14. "Let me ask, The Mission of the BSA is to develop men who make Moral decisions based from the Scout Law and Scout Oath." Actually the mission of the the BSA is much more than that. You left out some very crucial words. The Mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. First its not about developing men its about preparing young people. The BSA is not trying to effect just their adult lives but their entire lives. And secondly it is not about
  15. You know I think a 10.5 year old knows a lot more than you give him credit for. You cannot convince me that by the time a boy is scout age that he doesn't know 10 animals. They might not all know the same 10 and they might night know all the ones you point at, byut that is not how the requirement works. Where do they learn, hopefully you are helping them to understand that they learn everywhere. How about during a pre-opening activity at the next troop meeting. How about at school. Maybe from a library book, or on the Internet. Maybe you just put up some nature posters as meeting r
  16. Bald Eagle Sea Gull Canada Goose Deer (Tracks) Rabbit (Tracks) Cardinal Grackle Red Tail Hawk Skunk (smelled him) Opossum (they really need to hang around some chickens because they haven't a clue on how to cross a road.) There's my 10 since Sunday. No hike, no museum, no throwin' nothin into a field, just paying attention to the world around me. Isn't that the real lesson we are trying to teach the scouts? BW
  17. It's interesting that some people think that because other countries do it differently that the BSA should alter the program to be more like them. Based on what? Just the fact that they do it differently? Does anyone have any data to show that the other countries that do it differently have consistently better results? Any data that shows a direct link between the other countries' different program levels and... I don't no...more scouts maybe? Anybody? As far as "too many units" how exactly is that determined? If I am the District Executive and the Presbyterian Church ministe
  18. Sarge, Do you recal when you you first registered as an adult reading adn agreeing to the precepts of the BSA's Ceclaration of Religious Principles? If so, do you still agree with and support those principles? Here is what it says in the bylasw. Much of this was excerted i the adult member application form which when you signe you affirmed that you had read and agreed to these principles. Declaration of Religious Principle, Bylaws of Boy Scouts of America, art. IX, 1, cl. 1 The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen withou
  19. I think you always err in favor of the youth. If the scout has time as this one does to hold a position then thats where you guide him. If there isn't enough time then you have to consider the fact that this was not a properly admistered program and that is the fault of the adult leadership and not the scout's.
  20. You concerns are valid, I just think you are talking to the wrong people about them. You should be talking to the scouts. Sit down with the life scouts and let them know that you want to see them earn their Eagle according to the requirements and that in the past they have not gooten the ooportiunity to practice and to develop leadership skills. Tell them why that concerns you and how you want to make the trop and patrol activities youth led and how they can benefit from that. Then have one of them explain it to the entire troop at a troop meeting. Be positive about it, be excited a
  21. I believe you misread the posts RangerT. You need to look again at the badenp's first post. Pay special attention to the fabrication regarding a statement about lawsuits that no one made. His posts contain false and malicious comments. If he wants to waste time trying to attack me thats fine, but to use that against a scout and falsify information that attacks the boy's charcater is uncalled for.(This message has been edited by Bob White)
  22. I guess that is just not your decision as a den leader. No one forced you to help out the scouts from her den. It was very nice of you to take on that extra work. But I do not think that gives you the responsiblity to judge her or to determine if she should return or not. Just because they welcomed her back does not mean they no longer like you. This is between The Committee Chair, the Cubmaster, and her. I could see how others who have no responsibility in the matter might make her return even harder through their complaining and gossip and that would be unfortunate and as un
  23. Here is the good news. Your son cannot fail a Scoutmaster's Conference. It is not a pass or fail requirement. It is a "had" or "hasn't had" situation. Sit down with your son and read the actual requirement and you will see that it simply says "Participate in a Scoutmaster Conference" once your son participates the requirement has been met. Here is what I would do. Remind your sone to wear a clean, neat unoform. Be polite, andswwer questions in a positive and polite manner no matter what else happens. Ask the committee chair to meet you wherever the conference is going to b
  24. bsrsakima39, You show great promise young grasshopper. Your understanding of the importance of serving the scout rather than blaming the scout is outstanding. Welcome to your new adventure as an adult leader. I hopw you enjoy it for many years. BW
  25. Your problem is two fold. One as the CR it was your role to find and advisor for the Crew not be the advisor for the crew. You have created a role conflict that is compounding the problem. As the Crew Advisor it is the quality of the program offered by the Crew. Second, as the CR your problem is that the Troop Scouting program you are the CEO of has a program weakness and is not holding the interest of their older scouts. Your goal as CR should be having three independent but strong programs. If the troop was offering a program that appealed to older scouts the the crew would
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