Bob White

Jack Counselors are registered to the council and not the district so there is no prolem. Your procedure is excellent and includes all the needed elements outlined by the BSA advancement program. You are correct that doing it right sometimes takes a little longer, but there are definite benfits to the process. Nice Job.

Having led a troop that followed the program and knowing what was being done incorreectly it would be difficult to drop me unwittingly into this mess. If I was being asked by the CR to become the CC, I would first explain to him or her all the things the unit was doing in violation of the Advancement program and its policies. I would ask if it was the CR's intention to get the unit back on track. If it was, I would explain that this would invlove the re-training and possible replacement of key adult volunteers and ask if the CR was willing to weather that storm. If he or she was I would t

Let me try to answer your questions as if I were still an active Commissioner OGE. I am sorry if the DE gave you that incorrect information. This is propable not a topic he has dealt with before. But if you stop to think about a troop can only have one Scoutmaster, a unit committee can only have one chairperson, a Pack can only have one cubmaster. So the concept of only having one person in a job is not something new to the structure of scouting. As you can see here in the rules and regulations of the BSA your unit can only have one Chareter Organization Representative for a number o

Don't pick sides OGE, tell us the truth, What is the BSA's rule regarding the number of Charter Organization Representatives that a CO can have. Don't pick a side, simply determine right from wrong. I am not asking if I am right, I am asking you if the BSA is right about the rules of the BSA. Even BSA Aims, Methods, and Mission have a right and a wrong. They are specific elements, thers is no variation. Driving a mini-van is not a method of the BSA even if Beavah were to see a lot of Scout leaders driving mini-vans. The Vision, Mission, and Values of Scouting are specific thing

As long as a boy is eligible to remain in the pack he should have the option to remain until his eligibility ends or he chooses to leave the pack. If a Cub is eligible to transfer to a Scout troop then he should be given the option and the opportunity to transfer. If he is eligible to stay in cubbing and you have accepted his membership then you have a responsibility and an obligation to provide a meaningful program to him don't you?

Semantics are not at issue here. No one has questioned any semantics. Beavah and I have not disagreed on the meaning of any word. Our disagreement is based only who and what determines the BSA's program Methods, polices, and procedures. Moderate this out for us OGE. The BSA says in its Rules and Regulations that each Charter Organization has 1 Charter Organization Represenative for its entire scouting department no matter if they hold 1 or multiple charters. And the BSA says that the Scoutmaster cannot be the CR. Beavah says that, based on his observations of the real world, that ch

Here is where we differ Beavah. I don't say that I am right about the topic. I am not even trying to prove I am right. Me being right or wrong "personally" is irrelevant to any topic. I am sharing what the BSA materials says is right and since the topic is the BSA program then the BSA material is right, and that is what matters. You say 'that is not what happens in the real world'. So what?! All you are really saying is that in the relatively few instances you have seen, people where not following the program. That does not make their actions right. Have you considered that

editorial correction. There line "Your department is made of the committees and unit leaders of each of your departments" should have ended in quotes to mark the closing of the section reprinted from the manual. The next three paragraphs should not be in italics. Thank you BW Oe more thing, from The Cub Scout Leader Book, the last line in the job description for the Charter Organization Representative. "If the chartering organization has more than one unit, one representative serves them all." The BSA program is not what any one person says it is, it is what

"My next question is when and how is scout advancement recorded?" Lots of different ways, remember that the only thing that must be recorded, outside of the scouts personal record book or handbook, is completed ranks and completed merit badges. Everything else is at the choice of the unit and the preference and agreement of the Advancement Chair, Committee Chair, and Scoutmaster. Here is a Method I have seen used. A platic milk crate with a hanging file for each scout. Inside was an advancement record sheet. When a Scout completed advancement work he dated the advancement sheet to ma

The unit numbers of units within a single CO are not required to be the same. The number of CRs that attend any given meeting is not a relevent issue to how many CRs a single CO can have. When it comes to unit charters Parishes do not fall under one corportaion Diocese nor does each school within a school district. The rules are clear and easy to find. From the opening page of The BSA Chartered Organization Representative #3318D The following official description of a chartered organization representative is found in the current revision of the Rules and reguulations

"Nor is there anything which prohibits it, eh?" Sure there is! Ass a Commissioner you know there are numerous BSA resources the tell you that the CR and IH select and approve the Committee Chair. Show us just one that says the CC is elected by the committee.

The Councils have no authority to designate multiple CRs for the same CO. Each charter organization gets one vote on the the district and council they do not get more votes based on having more units. You can find the fact that there is only one CR in resources identified in my previous post. One CR represents the entire family of Scouting programs chartered to the CO. They are the representative of the Charter organization to the units and to the council/district, and they represent the council and district to the unit and the Chareter organmization. You will find this explai

I have not heard him speak before, so I cannot answer the second part of your question. BW

Help me out here Chug. I have had evmori on ignore for several weeks, Check his posts and tell me if you think it changed the tone of any of his posts? I will bet it hasn't. Did it change my posts? Before I posted about the content of BSA program training and resources and they address specific comments or questions, I still do. No changes, Do you honestly believe that if BadenP could not see my posts that he would stop posting about me? If I could not see his posts would the content of the BSA training and resources somehow change?

It would seem a personal copunceling session is in order. Explain to her how her behavior is affecting the moral of the committe and explain what the repercussions could be. For instance, why would anyone continue to serve on a committee where they are obviously not treated well by the chairman. But is she is to be removed the committee has no authority in that hey do have inout however and should discuss the matter with the Charter Orgaization Representative. Only the person with authority to replace the CC is the CR or the Institutional Head. There is nothing in the BSA that allows the

Just in case his post was missed in the Scout Law thread I share it with you here. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=213332#id_213458 Eamonn Even if it went to the committee or the Quarterdeck should they not first talk privately with the individuals to try and understand them and the situation better? Should the committee not be concerned about the scouts being taught the right information for their safety and the correct operation of the boat. I am not sure that more actions from moderators are needed, what I think is needed is for them to be modera

Stosh As clc5105 noted later the information he had received originally concerning the CR was a rumor and it was nothing like the concerns brought up in there actual meeting. As far as Rule #1 one CO should not charter a troop and a Crew...no such rule exists in the BSA nor do I believe it should or ever will. The goal is that a CO should use every tool available to it through the BSA to serve the youth of their organization of community. Charter multiple units is not the problem, selecting people who can properly lead and administrate them is the problem. But we have seen that

If you think that Doc left because of me that would be an error based on the PMs I have recieved for Doc. He did what I have done. He took the training read the manual and learned the information. I know, shame on us both for reading. If you come to a forum for 2000 personal opinions that's fine, that's your personal choice. But when looking to deliver a program you would think one would want to know what the program was and how to use it. I am curious, How many posters would stop a stranger on the street and ask for an opinion on how they should lead a scout program? Anyone? And yet

Eamonn Asks "Bob, what would you do if there were two Sea Scouts in the same Crew that even after being asked to cool it, continued to pick on each other and bicker?" Thank you for asking, I would talk with them individually and ask them about the relationshipo and whatthey see as the cause and solution. Then I would listen carefully to their answer not for the porpose of finding the solution intially but to try and understand each person better. Then I would look carefully at what was causing the conflict. Let's say for instance that one person was teaching a scout how to

Rememberschiff writes "Immediate recognition is relatively new in scouting. My unit did not do it in the 60's - we waited until the next COH. Looking at my old scout handbook sixth edition, Nov, 1959. Regarding earning first class page 229. (after the board of review) ..."Soon after, at a troop court of honor, your Scoutmaster presents your First Class badge to you in front of your friends." . The same Handbook, same year, same edition, on page 101 says " At an early Troop meeting, your Scoutmaster arranges for a court of honor ceremony." Then in the Scoutmaster Handbook fo

I am not sure what tell you Eamonn, let's consider how BSA leadership skills could be applied. If you had two people on a committee who did not get along, Would you talk with each of them and listen objectively and empathetically to discover the core issue with each? Or would you talk to everybody but them and make a decision without any actual information about the two people involved? Which do you feel would be the better leadership approach?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Nope. Just the few important ones, and they come indexed. They're actually really good, you should check one out sometime. Good night

Thats excellent BadenP most all of us have a a leaders manual nearby I would think. So if you you would tell us where in any one of the manuals it contradicts what I posted and we will all look it up. Page numbers aren't needed just tell us the chapter and we can check it out. Thanks BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Greetings BadenP If you have knowledge of any BSA resource that contradicts the answer I supplied to the question you posed it would be helpful to all of us if you would name it. Certainly with the few years experience you have had in the past when you were a professional scouter you know what the various resources are and can provide the one that supports your disagreement with me. Thank you in advance BW

That is not the same thing as a dual registration however since IH is not a registered position in scouting nor does the IH hold BSA membership as the CR does.