vmpost

We have a uniform drive every few years...we put an article and/or advertisement in the newspaper asking for donations of used uniforms. You have to have a few people willing to be to "collectors"...we wash them & put them in a closet. Each time we have new Scouts and Scouters, there are "experienced" shirts available for them to use...we just ask that they return them when they are through so another Scout may use them. We typically gather 30-40 shirts. When so many people are wearing experienced uniforms it is hard to feel bad.

This is my 3rd son through Webelos and the 4th time I've been DL for Webelos...I look over the material and "schedule" activities much like a teacher forms lesson plans. There a few badges which are to be done at home (i.e. Handyman and Family Member) IF the boy wishes. I present an opportunity to earn or at least work on each of the other badges at den meetings. I visit them once...twice if needed & it is a required badge. I routinely ask them to complete work on their own...like interviewing educators, etc. We schedule in LOTS of fun activities. Sometimes they count towards advancement and sometimes they don't. I regularly have most of the boys earn the award for all 20 badges and they aren't burned out. But this comes about due to scrupulous planning. It must stay fun and exciting. If we have to complete some dead boring stuff, I work it in while we are doing something fun like hiking, playing a game, or on the way to a movie or the YMCA. The boys also know it is not required to earn all 20 and there is no shame in not doing so. I also diversify...maybe working on the Artist badge and Sportsman badge the same meeting...with plenty of down time...

It is my belief/understanding that it is okay to go to other council's resident camps, as long as you jump through all the hoops...Tour Permit in advance with all the requested information, two-deep leadership (generally, parent/child is not required at Resident camps), yadda, yadda, yadda. I would try to be sure your "two-deep" is NOT a husband/wife team.

I looked through my training material for Webelos Outdoor Training, BALOO, New Leader Essentials, and CS Leader Specifics, and didn't find anything that would disallow it.

That said...where are you located? Do you have ideas where you'd like to go? If Colorado isn't too far away, they have an awesome camp! Check it out at http://longspeakbsa.org/ click on the Scout Camp link, then the Nicol Cub Camp tab.

Well...I have been looking for where I read that "small print"...but...there's always a "but" isn't there? Several years ago, when I was told about the fine print, I objected loudly and said that it couldn't be, as it IS the youth's election. I was shown where it read that the SM had the final acceptance or rejection...don't remember the exact wording, but it essentially said don't sign off if you disagree. Time has passed, we are in a small troop, and haven't had anyone eligible for a couple years, so haven't kept up-to-date...as I was preparing for this year's elections, since I was visiting with our OA advisor, I asked where I had read that comment. What I discovered is that IT DOESN'T MATTER...election procedure has changed...most notably this year. So... first, I apologize that I gave outdated information. Second, if it is of dire importance to some of you to know where I read it, I will still look. However, it is a moot point.

It is MY understanding, from talking to the OA advisor, that units may no longer conduct their own elections...a trained OA team (and there is a name for them, although I don't remember it) MUST conduct the election. If they don't, the election is invalid. Additionally, the election form must be signed off by the SM and DE, or two different people at any rate, even if I don't have the exact 2.

I don't have the paperwork yet with the new requirements, so this is not gospel! Before you have a tissy...CHILL. However, the message I would send is: everyone needs to check new requirements BEFORE they hold elections this year!

Getting back to what dan said early on...he has many good points. So was the point about when your son got attacked.

When the time comes that the Troop you are involved in is not following BSA policy or it does not "fit" anymore, it is time to look for alternatives. What are they? What is the problem? Can it be "fixed"? Is it a threat to the well-being of others? Is there a Troop nearby you can drive to? Do you have a moral obligation to the other youth in the program?

Short story: we were involved in a troop which was primarily adult-run (and had some other issues), but was the only one in town. I was new to the program and registered as SA. The SM invited me to participate in a SM conference so I could learn how to conduct one. He had a bee in his bonnet about the youth being conferenced. During the conf, he started badgering the Scout to define ethical. Nothing the youth answered was good enough. He replied in the vein of, "I'm sorry, sir, but I'm not familiar with that term." When I suggested "morally straight" from the Scout Oath, he gave a good discussion. Then the SM said, "Fine, but now define ethical." This went back & forth until the Scout was in tears. I finally asked to speak to the SM privately and asked him where in the book it said the boy needed to know that definition. He said, "Right here in my SM Handbook, that's where." Then went back to badgering the boy. What he pointed to was the part about the booklet "Youth's Frontier, Making Ethical Decisions" that the SM was to have provided for the Scout to take home & discuss with his parents. He didn't. When I questioned him further, he said, "This is MY troop and I will run it MY way. If you don't like it you can just shut up and butt out!"

Now, I don't know what your take on this is, but it is my belief that the troop SHOULD be the BOY's... (There were many more issues...this was just the last one we dealt with.) We immediately considered options. The CC was his wife. The COR & CO had a "hands off" policy... refused to do anything. IT WAS TIME to go to another troop. We looked at the alternatives...start a troop or join an existing one...

Your situation is similar...you have a choice to make. Can you fix the problem? Is there another existing troop you can join? Is the best solution to start another troop?

(And contrary to what many of you have experienced, the Unit Commiss & DE don't/won't always step in and monitor this for you.)

Firem'n Chit:

This certification grants a Scout the right to carry matches and build campfires. The Scout must show his Scout leader, or someone designated by his leader, that he understands his responsibility to do the following:

1. Read and understand fire use and safety rules from the Boy Scout Handbook.

2. Secure necessary permits (regulations vary by locality).

3. Clear all flammable vegetation at least 5 feet in all directions from fire (total 10 feet).

4. Attend to fire at all times.

5. Keep fire-fighting tools (water and/or shover) readily available.

6. Leave fire only when it is cold out.

7. Subscribe to the Outdoor Cod and Leave No Trace.

The Scout's "Firem'n Rights" can be taken from him if he fails in his responsibility.

(From Boy Scout Requirements 2005.)

There is a card and a patch available for this award, just like the Totin' Chip. Don't know why they don't include the requirements in the Handbook, as it is listed as an award, but ours is not to question why...

mia culpa, mia culpa, mia culpa

I believe it used to be in the list of "do 7 of these" or whatever the number was...didn't realize they had changed the requirements.

That said...for many years, the training material wasn't even available! We had it in our council only because someone tracked down an OLD copy (and it was the most current one printed) and started it up again!

However, there seems to be a renewed emphasis on the Webelos program, and National is coming up with some great supplemental materials...and NEW training materials for Webelos Outdoor is now available...so councils no longer have an excuse to not provide this training! Call your SE and badger them! Find out who your District Training Chair is and ask them...

I agree with the preprinted ballots...and I like the idea of one or two voting at a time. Also, our troop members decided they would like every eligible Scout give a brief speech to the troop on why they should be elected in...this also gives them the opportunity to turn down the nomination if they don't want in.

Then...there in the small print...in the end the election stands AT THE SM'S DISCRETION...if an election's results are totally inappropriate, the SM does have the option of negating the vote...we personally haven't had to exercise this option, but have thought about it long & hard on occaision. This is not totally in keeping with the idea of "elected by their peers" premise, but is put in as an emergency measure.

Additionally, only a very limited number of people know the results of these elections until tap out...keeps the excitement level up, and the adult input out.

New Leader Essentials and Webelos Specific Training are required for the knot. WLOT is NOT

Wow! There is a reason our parents told us to avoid conversations about politics and religion! Some of you seem to have a good sense of balance about this. But wowsers! Many of you need to learn to give others the respect you are demanding without earning... As I read the many posts, I had a few thoughts...

1) Our country/government was created by God-fearing people. If you don't like it...change history.

2)Our constitution guarantees freedom of religion. Nowhere does it guarantee freedom FROM religion.

3)The idea of separation of church and state didn't come about until the 60's...and this was proclaimed by the COURTS...not the law.

4)Just because you don't like someone's behavior(s) doesn't mean you have to hate the person. (If you can't figure out how this works, that is why you can't figure out why BSA can exclude groups like atheists or homosexuals, yet still be kind and loving people.)

Ponder...what is the difference between being a Scout & being a Scouter? What responsibilities are there for the young Scouter? Consider reviewing the training available, discussing the SM Conference & BoR, program planning steps, how to mentor the Scouts... Oh, the ideas are limitless...think about what the adults do & how they SHOULD do those things, then tell your young adults about it. What roles are available to 18-21 year old leaders, how to help create youth leaders, ideas on how to help separate themselves as adults without alienating their friends... Good luck!

The attraction is much the same as what draws us to climb mountains, camp, backpack, etc. -- a great love of the outdoors. My family will often report, "The hunting was great. The shooting was poor, but that doesn't matter."

We (my family & those who hunt on our ranch) DO cull...we have over 50 head of deer that live on our place. Our sons are allowed to go for the "trophy" ONCE. After that, they select lesser animals...often does, so it reduces the reproduction rate. (And NO, does do NOT have Bambi's to be feeding at this time of year. They are all weaned by hunting season.)

Wild game is a fantastically healthy food! Low fat & low cholesterol. Personally, I do not like duck or goose, so the nights we eat those, even my calorie intake is down!

The hunters who waste what they "kill" give the majority of the hunters a bad name. Additionally, most states have a "want & waste" law, or something similar. It is ILLEGAL to waste their kill. Turn them in! The hefty fine will usually stop them from this trait.

Truly, subsistence hunting still occurs. There have been times when wild game was ALL that was in our freezer. Also, self-defense (granted-not the same as hunting) is still a good reason to know how to use a gun. And I AM talking about self-defense against wild animals. Some of us live in areas this is a necessary skill...you'd better have some practice before you need to test yourself!

First name. I really believe this is an environmental thing...if it is customary in your region or situation, then certainly Mr/Ms is appropriate. We live in a small community. Many of our Cub & Boy Scouts are in my home outside Scouting. I know them personally & well. I have coached them. I have coffee with their parents. That sort of thing. However, some of the leaders are leaders in our community...Dr's & Teachers...they are referred to as Mr/Ms/Dr.

I agree with seed...respect doesn't come with a name. I have heard people called Mr/Ms Lastname with great disrespect, and I hear my first name said with respect. It's the rest of the "stuff" that makes it.

There is a lot of good input here. Glad to hear your meeting went fairly well. Has your troop considered putting together a CD or handout on "How Boy Scouts is different from Cub Scouts"? What about having your CC attend a PLC as an observer? What about the SPL attending a Committee Meeting? (Adult leaders MUST give him proper respect!) Do you have a SA assigned to assist this group? Would your PLC consider staging campouts to assist the younger ones?

Specifically, in our troop, the older boys each pair up with a new Webelos Scout to assist them for the first several campouts. They don't necessarily become tent partners, but they work beside them every step. They teach them how to set up tents, how to set up the kitchen, how to cook, etc. They have put together signs to post regarding "What does it mean to pitch camp?", etc. They realize older scouts helped them when they were new and this is passing the spirit on. They also host a campout in the spring, close to home, where they teach them many of the skills for rank advancement. They take them on a 5-mile hike, teach compass skills, pioneering skills, etc. They take pride in their buddy's advancement. And then, certainly, they are rewarded by their own fun and more challenging outings.

In regards to "boy-led", I believe that anything that the boys can do, they should be allowed and encouraged to do. The only time adults should interfere is if there is a safety issue or problems with cost, reality, or sponsors. Example: They probably can't put together a trip to Hawaii in the next 3 weeks. Hang-gliding is out of the question. We are trying to develop leaders...they may need mentors, but our job is not to plan their activities...it is to teach them to plan appropriately.

Good Luck