Vicki

beav, I believe we may be talking at cross purposes or,as I like to say, in vehement agreement.

Vicki

No, Beav, meeting the requirements made him fit. He didn't do anything except participate.

Sure, if it's something they want to do, they'll do it. I don't think adolescents are alone in that viewpoint.

But calisthenics aren't fun, which clemlaw pointed out here. I don't think measuring fitness for younger scouts is productive because they don't have the incentives older scouts have - or the options, for that matter. Athletics (as in team sports), at least in our area, aren't emphasized until high school and gym class has been scaled way back.

Making it fun would be the goal - my family started backpacking when I was about 11. I loved to swim, too. But you would never catch me "exercising."

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

I agree with SR540 - my personal experience is that there is a lot of development that happens between 7th and 9th grades. Very personal experience - son 2 was a bit of a chubster until he hit freshman year. Marching band and soccer, then wrestling, then volleyball - body fat ratio probably fell 75%, I actually started worrying about him eating enough. I can guarantee you pullups would not be a problem for him now, but they definitely were when he was doing the rank requirements. Same case for several of our scouts.

Vicki

Ed, I believe we already covered that probability if you take a closer look at what's been written. I think you threw out the possibility of 10% (100 - 90) - I said "very occasional case" - without data, can't quantify any further.

But feel free to beat that dead horse without me - I offered Bart a workaround, I'm done.

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

Ed, did you actually look at the form? Common sense has nothing to do with it. One column asks for the owner's name, the next asks for the driver's license number. A better column heading would be "owner's (or driver's, if not the same) name" but I would understand if TPTB didn't want to change it for the very occasional case.

Bart, I think what I would do is ink in the driver's name above the driver's license number and fill out the owner's column correctly.

Vicki

I see what Bart is talking about folks. If you look at the form, it asks for the owner's name in one column. In the column next to it, it asks for driver's license number. I would make the assumption that the number placed next to the name in that column should be associated somehow. I guess I never noticed the language before because the owner has always been the driver.

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34426.pdf

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

My opinion is we just don't know enough to even say the committee has run amuck. We don't even have the participant in the original event to ask questions of.

Although I will say, I've been blessed with committee members who camp in both troops I've served. I can't imagine this scenario in either one of those troops.

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

My experience both as a TG and participant was similar to emb and Tokala. I'd simply add that when I worked with my participants, I took their review in whatever format they were comfortable with. I had one that wrote a book (well, OK, almost!) and another that I did mostly verbally. The rest were somewhere in between.

I think someone was blowing smoke with the Texas comment - I notified the CD and the advancement/training professional for our council, the professional had his secretary put the regalia/certificate packet together and I picked it up. In one case the process took 24 hours.

Date and event were scheduled between the participant, CD, and myself. Most were troop meetings/COHs.

Vicki (edited for clarification)

A bear in a bobwhite suit(This message has been edited by Vicki)

RHIP - Rank Has Its Privileges

FUBAR - Fouled up Beyond All Recognition

SNAFU - Situation Normal, All Fouled Up

Going a little further afield.

Vicki

Thanks, Gary, for confirming and expanding my understanding.

Vicki

Horizon - GREAT idea!!

I'll be executing that one post haste.

As far as OA sash goes - I sewed my son's initials on the inside of the front corner (carefully not going all the way through). In retrospect, his full name would have been a better idea, but he's Brotherhood now so he can do what he wants with it...

Thanks,

Vicki

Gary, the separate week is to accommodate the perceived need to avoid Saturday night activities. My understanding is that whether or not LDS members can participate in an activity that runs through Saturday and into Sunday is up to the church leadership.

Vicki

As did Scouting Again, my sister didn't wear her uniform at her son's ECOH.

I haven't had the opportunity to make that decision yet. Don't know what I'll decide when/if I get there. I'll probably ask my son what he would prefer.

Vicki

>I'll start off by saying this is an honestly curious question and not intended to start any sort of political/gender thing.

For those of you in LDS units who mix with non-LDS units, do any issues arise concerning female leaders who camp (obviously leadership with the non-LDS units)? >

With the rising presence of LDS members in our area (the St. Louis temple is relatively new) this is something that is going to come up. So far, we are experiencing the segregated phenomenon. We offered a separate week of NYLT for LDS and didn't have enough interest to hold the course. Same with Wood Badge (which we offer twice a year).

But we are trying, and if anyone has addressed the question I asked in their area, I'd like to know.

Vicki

Scoutmaster, NYLT

TG, Wood Badge

Surprised no one has mentioned this yet - sign up for online access to your bank account. That will let you pull statements for at least the last six months, which is probably all the activity you'll really need.

If you haven't done a budget before as a troop and your records aren't that good I would lay back for a little bit and just keep track of it until you feel like you have a handle on expenses and income. The troop has gone this long without a budget, right? Track each outing separately (to the extent you can) for awhile. Some folks will tell you that the first thing to do is create a budget but a reasonable budget requires decent records, otherwise you're just setting yourself up for failure. My opinion, your mileage may vary. Not what I'd recommend to a business client, but then this is a scout troop and the mindset is different.

If you decide not to use TROOPLEDGER (I'd never heard of that before and will look into it), learn how to sum in Excel and how to create a workbook. When I served a troop that had scout accounts, along with several collection efforts for various things going at the same time I had a spreadsheet for each effort (Philmont, Northern Tier, spring trip) which fed into the main bank account spreadsheet.

The current troop is much simpler - smaller and no scout accounts.

Vicki

I'll start off by saying this is an honestly curious question and not intended to start any sort of political/gender thing.

For those of you in LDS units who mix with non-LDS units, do any issues arise concerning female leaders who camp (obviously leadership with the non-LDS units)?

Vicki

If daddy long legs count as spiders, there aren't any useable facilities in this neck of the woods!

Vicki

Off topic - Eagle92, I like the way your wife thinks.

On topic - I think there may be varying degrees of how hard a Lodge is willing to work to identify someone. If somebody walks up with their son and says he was an Ordeal member, that's one thing. To claim to be Vigil is something entirely different.

And claiming to have been involved with a dance team when you weren't is just plain dumb. There's a lot of things there a person should at least remember.

Vicki

First, B, you're right - it was obviously a vain effort on my part to try to condense several hundred years (or more) of theological history and discourse into a few paragraphs.

Ed, assuming that your question is serious, ancient authors frequently wrote under the name of an author they were trying to emulate. Debate goes back and forth as to whether it was in honor of that author or if it was just plain dishonest (the dishonesty of it being, perhaps, a modern concept). So we don't know the name of the author. All we know is that from the original Greek used, the way it was written, and the content, it doesn't sound like any of the letters we know Paul wrote and it doesn't seem to have been written at the same time (Romans and 1Corinthians, as examples).

Hey, Pack, hi back!

I'm headed out for some pie at this point - warm blackberry with vanilla ice cream.

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

B, I'll forgive you and it's not simplistic. If you meant straw man and were just being funny, well, whatever.

But, >So let's revise Eagledad's statement to "you'd have to ban the vast majority of traditional religious practice which has been around for more than 50 years." Which, as quaze suggests, is a remarkably brazen thing for folks who've only been around da last 50 years to do. >

is just wrong. Current "progessive/permissive" Christian thought goes at least as far back as Erasmus'(a contemporary in the late 1400's of Luther and Calvin) espousal of free will. Not to mention Kant, Hume, and Locke (The Enlightenment) in the 1700's. You know better.

Of course, there's those pesky Anglicans (and, later, Methodists) who insisted that blacks should be allowed to be baptized and worship and, further down the road, agreed that women should be allowed to vote in assemblies. Radical changes in worship practices. Oops, that started gaining momentum in the late 1700's.

Vicki

(This message has been edited by Vicki)

>I just don't see everyone adopting a liberal theology (nice link, by the way) as "what it will take" in OGE's start of this topic>

But that's not what I was talking about and I said so when I said in my initial post that I was going off-topic - my initial post was responding to a poster who claimed that it would require outlawing religion in order for homosexuality to be considered as not deviant or wrong. I was simply pointing out that there are a lot of religious people out there who would take exception to that statement.

I was not claiming that a liberal theological argument would change anyone's mind. I know better. I agree with those posters who have said that only personal experience will lead anyone to change their mind.

Vicki

OK, OGE, I'll play - my primary reference is Dr. Dennis C. Duling. His c.v. is on

http://www3.canisius.edu/~duling/

Another includes the Rev. Dr. Deborah Krause, Dean of Eden Seminary who wrote a commentary on Timothy, referencing Ephesians, and from whom I took a class on the non-Gospel New Testament.

Yet another is Dr. Stephen Patterson

http://www.westarinstitute.org/Fellows/patterson.html

Vicki

>Ya gotta stop believing everything you read in wikipedia!>

Ah, yes, dismissing the other's statement as unfounded, this was not unexpected either, Ed.

Glad to see that seminary degree I earned wasn't completely for nought.

Vicki

It's a good thing OGE is the OP on this one - he knew what he was going to get once it got past three or four pages!

Vicki

Pack, an annoyed pig, very much like a human, will grunt at you first and if they get too annoyed, they'll actually try to run you down: