Venturer2002

This thread wasn't slamming Bob White, for surely we are happy to have him populate our forum.

Most here value his opinion, which is usually based on established policies, rules, and regulations of the American Scouting Movement, the BSA. I do notice he has a tendency to be a little short with people, which comes across as "my way or it's not the program", but surely he doesn't intend it that way.

I mentioned Hitler in my previous post, because we shouldn't try to elevate any one person above ourselves as more "knowledgable" or "enlightened". Indeed, our entire nation was founded on this very idea.

Maybe I came off as a grouch when I last posted, but I just was trying to foster independent thought (and I had just woken up).

I'd like to toast Bob White, Old Grey Eagle, Yaworski, and all the rest who make this forum something unique. You've all certainly made your mark.

For long-term camping, the dutch oven is your friend! All too often our cast iron friend is neglected, which really is a shame since anything can be cooked in one.

I visited a Historical village that had a cooking reenactment, and talked with one of the reenactors there about dutch oven technique. This lady used one every day, so I think going with these tips will surely help you:

1. Tin foil is bad, imparts metallic flavor to your food.

2. A pie pan nestled inside of your dutch oven makes cooking more efficient.

3. Rocks placed under the dutch oven will prevent scorching (no sedimentary rocks!)

4. Wait half an hour into the cooking process to put charcoal on top of the dutch oven, placing it on too soon will result in things being gooey in their middles.

5. Never use soap! This is one I've added, but all too often people do it. Soaping up a dutch oven results in a condition known as "the runs". Get a handful of salt and rub inside to clean up, right after you're done cooking.

(This message has been edited by Venturer2002)

Throw bags are an emergency reach aid, basically a bag with a long coiled rope inside. Pilot biscuits are tough, hard, cookie-like bread that keeps well, I've heard it's akin to hardtack.

I find the majority of Bob White's posts

to be accuarate, but keep in mind that

every poster on this site is human, and is

open to human error.

A group of people should never blindly follow

anyone else; that's how Hitler rose to power. Get advice, check the rules, and make a decision.

People on the Internet should use more care in the wording of their posts, because sometimes the whole basis of their argument is false.

Posters on this forum had no way of knowing that when I posted my last comment on this thread, it was as a YWCA certified Peer Mediator. This training allows me to objectively look at conflicts, weigh the benefits and disadvantages of each possible course of action, and where necessary reccomend a consultation with a mental health or religious professional.

I am by no means a mental health professional in any capacity (nor do I profess to be one); I do have in-depth training in conflict management and resolution, as well as identifying larger problems than the conflict.

I will refer Bob White back to the G2SS, where he will see that if the course of action agreed upon both by the Troop Committee and Parents is not upheld, then you should revoke membership in that unit. To protect the rest of the unit, presumably.

You have a lot of wiggle room in regards to interpretation of these policies, and I feel that Bob White was somewhat misleading, claiming that not following policy will nullify protection; I again will refer him back to the G2SS.

Both Bob White and I agree to follow the established policies, we just differ in opinion as to which one is appropriate.

You're right, and here is what should have transpired according to the G2SS:

"The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit.

If problem behavior persists, units may revoke a Scout's membership in that unit. When a unit revokes a Scout's membership, it should promptly notify the council of the action."

Bob White,

I personally wouldn't consider this a case of sexual misconduct. It doesn't appear to me that the sexual overtones were the whole thrust of the encouter, it seems more likely to be a revolitingly ugly bullying tactic.

The behavior certainly isn't normal, and I didn't mean to make it sound that way. What I too often see is a truly good kid get wrounged, or a bad kid becoming worse thanks to our juvenile court system.

What would the benefits be of reporting to the police? We must think of why we have the scouting program in the first place. Baden Powell didn't think of scouting as a place atheists couldn't be in; in fact he saw it as a place they could find God. I feel an attitude more like "Let's help everyone in this situation" would be better than "Lock him up!"

Oh, and after re-reading the guide to safe scouting under sexual misconduct, it was clear that this was reserved for sexual acts between members. Bullying does not equal sexual misconduct in this given situation, and is a disservice to all in my opinion to consider it such.

Bullying has no place in scouting, explain to the parents the situation and maybe even propose an essay on "how my behavior did not fall within scouting ideals". This would be an introspective process, and would help this boy's recovery. As Scoutparent said referral to a clergy member, psychiatrist, etc. would be beneficial.

He needs help, not instruction on how to be a better criminal

(This message has been edited by Venturer2002)

My take on what happened:

This certainly seems like a bullying incident to me.

Assuming all teenage boys operate similarly to those at my school, they're using an implication of homosexuality against someone else in an attempt to degrade them.

Verbal, and yes, physical misconduct are present in this type of bullying. I've seen some guys do this to others in gym class, and it's usually accepted by their peers because it portrays homosexuals in a negative light.

Getting law enforcement involved isn't necessary, all you'd need to do is explain to the bully that people might think he's gay based on his actions, which usually works when I see this being done to the younger kids at school.

It's understandable for the younger scout to be shook up after this type of bullying, but to call it a sexual encounter is absurd. While sexual molestation can occur between people of similar age groups, it's just not what happened here. (At least as far as I can objectively decide given the statement)

You probably meant that as rhetorical, but as a red-blooded american (teenage) male, I'd take the blond. But technically you couldn't snuggle unless she had hypothermia and needed direct skin contact. ;-)

What about those prescribed medicinal marijuana for Cancer?

It's not a real question, it's just there to illustrate that Yaworski's post (a shot of vodka?) wasn't one either.

It was my understanding heart patients were to seek wine because of the medical benefits of the tannins (sp?) in the beverage in addition to the alcohol, which is a natural blood thinner.

I'm not a doctor, just an exceptional Biology student who reads the news.(This message has been edited by Venturer2002)

You know those blue, gold, and plaid neckerchiefs they make for cub scouts? Those are official. Well, some people have made custom neckerchiefs for their dens, these are "unofficial". As Yaworski stated the green beret evolved from similar non-conformity.

Uniform standards, advancement requirement/procedures, and safety regulations are certainly established for the benefit of us all.

No matter which part of these you change, you're willfully disobeying.

Picking and choosing which parts you adhere to is incorrect. Leading a great outdoor program, implementing safety regulations, and wearing a neckerchief that makes your den a team isn't.

The Chief Scout Executive is clearly imitating a military uniform with the way he's got his sleeves pressed in the 11th edition handbook. With this as an example, is it allright to do so as well?(This message has been edited by Venturer2002)

A ref or ump wouldn't stop a game for every improper pitch or each ball carry. But a good ref or ump also wouldn't let another player crack someone else upside the head with a bat.

What I'm trying to say is the role (at least in my opinion) of any adult advisor is to step back and let the kids play the game. so what if one or two things aren't done 100% in accordance with every last written guideline?

If the kids in a game, or scouting activity, were to endanger the lives, mental health, or personal property of another than an adult official would step in. If you spend time stopping a scout because he isn't wearing his uniform pants when he is supposed to be learning hurry cases than aren't you being more detrimental to the program as a whole?

As far as I know none of the cubs I've seen have been damaged by wearing an unofficial neckerchief. Surely it isn't kosher (secular sense), but if you put more of an emphasis on these things you're not accomplishing the ideals of scouting.

I know Army/Navy surplus stores have loads of campaign hats sometimes, but they're usually too high-crowned if you end up with a USMC type.

There's a great website that allows you to ask advice and post questions such as yours, it's called http://www.slashdot.org go there and ask this question, they'll probably post it!

Will do, I've been meaning to get one anyhow.

rlculver415,

glad to hear it! I may have been a little rash, it's just that I like to see the program implemented correctly, and you certainly could see where someone may have drawn the same conclusion I did.

the main topic here is the validity of RHIP, in terms of power over the new scouts or other low-ranking members of the Troop, I agree 100% with your position.

This question should stir the other posters up a bit:

Do you consider it wrong to line up for chow-time in order of rank, either ascending or descending?

The Cub rank neckerchief should be optional, provided the cub is wearing the proper hat for their rank. That would serve the purpose of immediate recognition beyond the scope of a badge, and would allow a little more fun in the uniform. How do I go about lobbying to make changes on these types of things?

I was also interested in old scouting equipment, uniforms, etc. and found a great site that has a picture of a mess kit from around 1910, which was alot bigger and consisted of "a frying pan,handled pot, drinking cup, and grill".

here's the link:

http://www.boyscoutstuff.com/Galleries/Equipment/messkit.html

rlculver415,

"Boy-lead efforts must always be adult supervised. "

That statement is untrue. Check both the SPL's and the Scoutmaster's handbook, each talks about patrol activities, some without adults present. This is a great part of scouting, if you take that away from the boys in your Troop you're butchering the program.

That's not to say that the youth leadership should be young or inexperienced. That's why each independent patrol activity must meet prior approval of the Scoutmaster. If their plans are lacking, some help is in order. Let the boys run the Troop, I know it's hard, but it makes it easier for the adults in the long run.

While we're on this, are WOSM (world organization of the scout movement) uniform pieces able to be worn with the BSA uniform? I looked online, and they sell some nice looking campaign hats and leather belts. Anyone have a clue on this one?

In order to receive your Eagle in a Venture Crew you don't need to be dually registered, the minimum requirement is that the boy be at least 1st class to work on Boy Scout ranks in a Crew. Since your son is Life, he certainly meets this requirement. The Board of Review for Eagle is comprised of people from your general area, with at least one member of the District Advancement Commitee present, so this would be unaffected. Instead of having a Scoutmaster's conference, he'll have one with the Crew Advisor. The BSA set up Venturing with this type of thing in mind, so you should find that it's almost exactly like advancements in a Troop setting.

Hope this helps :-)

A snap-on collar would be great on a uniform shirt, so you could have a 70's style v-neck or *snap* a 90's style uniform shirt. Would make it great for people who want to wear a neckerchief the traditional (correct) way.

I know this is pretty divergent, but how about a Boy Scout Car, sort of like the Looney Tunes Chevy Venture vans? Olive Green/Khaki/Red interior, changeable seat covers for Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, and Venturing. Built in storage in the back for tents, backpacks, lanterns, etc. A little computerized map display showing nearest state parks, national parks, and scout shops. Whaddaya think?

There's an award utilizing a workbook that's available to BSA members, you need the little booklet (details below) to get it.

The BSA Family BookThe "BSA Family Book" is a vital tool for participation in this program. It is available at your local Council'sBoy Scouts Trading Post, and at National Scout Shops. Ask for BSA Publication Number 33102. (ISBN 0-8395-3012-9) The current printing is 1992 (but watch for newer releases.) It is priced at approximately$2.95 (USD) + tax.

No NJCubScouter,

It was waaayyy before MY time. I was born in the mid 80's, the field cap was discontinued awhile before my birth I think. I didn't mean it was before your time, because I don't know when your time was (although I assume you're a might bit older than myself)

I just offered up my opinion as a youth member on the baseball cap (I know I'm not alone), and didn't mean you to take it so seriously, it's always hard to judge tone on the internet.