Troop24

allangr1024 you are really showing your age. . . the 1070's! Sorry, couldn't resist.

I do think that resqman does have a point about the "driven" quality of some of the modern day scouts. If they are going to involved in the program they might as well concentrate all their efforts on the ultimate goal. Only two of my scouts (out of 18) are involved in sports. The rest have only scouting as their extracurricular activity. But not all of them are Eagle bound. I have three life scouts that have been just sitting out the project for the last 18 months or so. I figure they know what they need to do and will come seeking further guidance when they are ready!

My troop uses Troopmaster. We have assigned the primary updating to one person and then we all share the data among the adult leaders mostly using thumb drives. However, if I want to share the data with someone who was absent from the meeting I simply use Google Docs to transfer the files for free. All you need is a Google account (a gmail account is not required to use this service, any email account will work to establish a Google account.)

Trevorum and Emb021 said:

"Emb021 said, "What was limited was the wearing of Jambo Shoulder patches & troop numbers. These were to be worn 6 months before & after the event. While I don't mind JSP worn longer, I do get sick and tired of people wearing the jambo troop number once the Jamboree is over."

In truth, any council shoulder patch (CSP) that has been legitimately issued by a council may be worn by any member who is currently registered in that council. That includes old versions of standard CSPs as well as CSPs issued for special events and activities, including National and World Jamborees. That means you need never replace your jamboree CSP unless you change councils.

I personally do not have a problem with the Jambo CSP or even the special Jambo epaulets. My problem is that we are days away from the new year and I still have two youth and one adult still wearing their Jambo Troop numbers instead of their actual troop numbers. I understand that attending a Jamboree can be a once in a lifetime experience and do not want to lessen the accomplishment in any way but I do think it is time to return to your regular unit numbers for 2011!

So how do I encourage them to represent their troop again without coming off as a member of the dreaded uniform police (gawd how I hate that term!)

@ Scoutbox, "After a Scout has completed all requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, and Life ranks, or an Eagle Palm, he appears before a board of review. This board of review is made up of at least three and not more than six members of the troop committee. One member serves as chairman, usually the committee member responsible for advancement." as stated in 2008 Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures which is the latest version I can find online.

These outstanding young men have shown what can be accomplished when an individual decides to set and attain a goal. They should be applauded for the collective efforts at achieving their aim.

However, the tone of the post seems to be that the goal was reached in a rather short amount of time. If a scout is in a pretty active troop that does an outdoor activity once a month and summer camp each year he can work through the advancement stages in as little as 17 months. There is a one month requirement for Tenderfoot related solely to the 30 day physical fitness test/show improvement requirement. There is no mandatory time to remain in rank for Second or First Class. Star requires the scout to be active in his troop and hold a position of responsibility for at least four months while still a First Class scout. Life has a similar active/position of responsibility requirement but for a tenure of 6 months as a Star scout. Lastly Eagle requires 6 months active/responsibility and the Eagle project while a Life scout. All of this can be accomplished if the scout is suitably motivated! (I am not saying anything about maturity or actual leadership ability that a scout can or will acquire in the shortest possible time to Eagle, simply that it can be done!)

Personally I think it would be great if there was an enforceable ban on pocket rockets. I have always been under the impression for the 30 or so years that I have been involved with the OA that was to be no distinction between levels as we are all brothers in the order. I have had a few boys in the troop I serve decide not to follow through with their election to the OA because they felt it was a cliche that they would rather not be involved with. I am pleased that you may have been recognized by your peers for your service to the order and selected to become a vigil member; but I do not feel that you need to rub that in my face all the time. Nor do I need to be reminded every time I look at you that you are a brotherhood member, either. If we are at a OA sanctioned event where the wearing of the sash is authorized then by all means wear your proper sash with pride. At all other times we should all be simply brother members of the Order of the Arrow and proudly wear our lodge flap indicating that we are diligent in our loyalty to the lodge and have paid our dues.

@Eagle92: the camp we are attending this summer Camp Rainey Mountain states in their camp rules, "NO fixed-blade sheath knives allowed." (http://xrl.in/6rd5) So there are local "bans" in place throughout the scouting world on fixed blade or sheath knives.

Wikipedia says there are 2,912,039 youth members and 1,137,971 adults in 124,425 units all levels of the Boy Scouts of America; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America . The Center for Education Reform indicates there are 55,203,000 K-12 students and 3,178,142 teachers in 132,656 K-12 schools; http://www.edreform.com/Fast_Facts/K12_Facts/ . That sure seems to point me to think that there is a much great chance to run into a bad apple in the education system simply based on the numbers than on anything else. But there is no indication of the gender break down of the teacher numbers versus the adult leader numbers in Scouting. History seems to bear out that pedophilia is more prevalent in males than females; http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/pedophilia_and_molestation.htm So I guess we are still guessing, huh?

Barthumphries after your more eloquent explanation of the link to culottes as an example of modest clothing and an attempt as an sniping comment on maleness I humbly apologize to you. I find the man-centered thought process that tries to mask all ills with testosterone and I think it is perhaps the root cause of so many suicides in the military of late. If you can't see an injury you are not hurt, "man up" and get back on the line there's work to do. That was the vein in which I took your comment.

@BartHumphries from the few people I have talked to that have mentioned what they wear under a kilt I think that would create a violation of YP should the wearer slip and fall on a wet dining hall floor, not too mention being perhaps a little embarrassing. Yet you suggest that if someone were to temper their wardrobe slightly to prevent such a problem that makes them somehow less manly. These kind of statements are the kind of things that I find among the most bothersome on both this forum and around the campfire. I have to wonder if you feel the same way about female Venturers, too.

Our school districts are still fortunate enough to be providing DARE instruction to our Elementary school age kids. I did a Google search and found this: http://www.thirteen.org/closetohome/pdf/CTHelementary.pdf could be a good source for a troop based program.

I personally think there will be a final end of the year (or end of era) push on these badges by the boys themselves and by some adults for the boys. I know our council is sponsoring a winter heritage camp from December 26 - 30 to provide the Scouts one last chance to earn them. Then national will see the total numbers required and produce the required badges to fill the back order.

The Washington Post says the show had about 5 million viewers which is around 3.6 million more than they average on a Sunday night in that time slot ( http://xrl.in/6ns3 ). Not sure what that says for the future of the show, though. I did not tune in, so I have no opinion.

Thanks Gunny for the edit.

In another thread it was suggested that legislator's like to create 3000 page bills to support a massive agency along with their proposed changes to something and then there is a decade of litigation before anything can happen. That made think of this thread. If people could simply follow the rules without looking for their personal loophole or hiring a lawyer to find one for them I think a lot of things would run a whole lot simpler!

John is right, of course, every inhabited building in this country has a roof. Put solar panels on them. The cost will have to be reflected lower by mass consumption, right? Sure the look of solar panels now on a residential roof is a little off-putting but if everyone had one they would be more architecturally designed and become more pleasing to the eye.

In regards to the tragic loss of birds and bats to the spinning turbines of wind mills I stumbled across something a little while ago. It may not be the absolute answer but it shows people are thinking about it: http://xrl.in/6jx3.

"And if the rules, themselves, are just plain wrong?"

Who exactly gets to decide what rule is just plain wrong? What makes that person's decision more or less questionable than the original rule?

I mentioned this before approach those that establish the rules and petition them for change with a reasoned appeal and perhaps change will occur. Otherwise, I think we should do our best to live within the established guidelines as provided by the Oath and Laws.

Scoutfish,

BartHumphries said this: " "I am assuming that the BSA does not have a problem with scouts running around waving flashlights at each other."

That's what I'm saying. As long as you're not "shooting guns at each other", then laser tag should be ok, right? Besides boxy lasers, "pen" ones like http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Pet-LED-Light-Laser-Pointer-Toy-Cat-Dog-Puppy-Kitten-/360314546543?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e46ba96f would seem to be ok too -- they can hardly be called "firearms".

Yes, you can do laser tag with "a square flashlight-type box that couldn't possibly be confused for a "firearm", as long as - per the Guide to Safe Scouting - "participants shoot at targets that are neither living nor human representations"..."

Here is a shortened link to his above: http://xrl.in/6ljl it does not have a laser tag device included but rather a laser like device that one would use to point out things on a PowerPoint display or tease your cat as it suggests. Do we know for certain that there will be no eye damage as a result of exposure to this item through play in the hands of a Scout? I am not an expert and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so I am not qualified to answer but I do not want to be the one explaining to Johnny's parents why he needs a seeing eye dog because I chose to ignore the rules!

[begin rant]

I think the point of this thread from the very beginning has been an attempt to justify weaseling out of the rules by saying "Rules, What Rules?" Instead of following the guidelines as set forth in the G2SS there has been a lot of wind expended legitimizing the use of laser type objects other than professionally operated laser tag equipment to play tag. People have have used unnecessary vitriol to make their claims instead of simply following the rules.

Where along the way does that follow the lines of the Scout Law and the Scout Oath that we all supposedly voluntarily aspire to pass the values of onto the Scouts under our charge? Is it okay to not to pay a fee or bill you disagree with simply because you disagree with it? Instead of seeking a petition to change the amount due or the method it is collected. No I guess it is better to call the person a bitter name and simply do what you want to do anyway.

This thread plays well with the Eagle Mill thread of last week. People in this thread have suggested that local tradition can be applied to this practice because no one is harmed. Yet, last week people were upset that local troops were changing advancement rules, in their local tradition, by adding/subtracting from them and weakening the overall affect of the advancement process of Scouting across the board.

Play by the rules or don't play! Seems simple enough to me. Don't like the rules, petition to the rules committee and plead your case, get others with similar beliefs and experiences to join your cause and maybe you can effect a change.

Boy Scouts of America is a national organization and an Eagle Scout from Seattle should be the same as an Eagle Scout from Key West and so should any rank in between.

[end rant]

BartHumphries says: "Firearms may not be pointed at another person, even if those firearms are "fake" and "shoot" completely harmless "stuff", such as paintball guns, laser guns, etc. But there's nothing wrong with lasers in and of themselves . . ." I wonder how the pilot in this story or the FBI feels about that: http://www2.wsav.com/news/2010/sep/29/fbi-investigates-laser-aimed-savannah-plane-ar-896625/

Nothing to worry about when you take a dollar store laser emitting item as it appears many here are referring to and placing it in the hands of teenage boys and allowing them to play tag with it. No worries about damaging their eyesight, no sir!

I am with Stosh on this one. It clearly says show improvement! If one the first attempt the Scout can only pull himself up a quarter of an inch and then on the second attempt 30 days later he pulls himself up a half inch that is an improvement! I have always hated pull ups. That was the least favorite exercise routine I had to face during my 12 years in the Army. I would do my best until I was allowed to fall off the bar then I would go do something else. Not everyone can do every exercise as well as everyone else.

Hopefully these Scouts have been doing all the other advancement and having it noted in their books so when they move to another troop they can get moving on the way they should toward their next rank goal. This Scoutmaster needs to reconsider his role.

"Ummm... Troop24, you said that there are three licenses available, then only posted two. "

I was showing there was a sliding scale available that is why I left out the middle price but it is $59.95 for a two year license. The link I provided would have given you the same information, unlike the link xiaoxian provided for the cheap jeans!

This forum offers a link to some Scouting related software at: http://www.scouter.com/compass/Leaders_Resource/Software/Unit_Management/ or http://xrl.in/6izx (easier to copy and paste!)

Our troop uses Troopmaster and we find it to be a very manageable tool. There are three licenses available from $45 for one year to $70 for three years. This license allows for unlimited users and PCs. They also offer an additional service that allows data transfer over the web for a fee. However, we have found that you can use other web services like Google Docs to do that for free once you get everyone set up.

When our Scouts earn First Class they are presented with a custom troop necker. This necker has a replica of our CO church and other local memorabilia represented on it. It is presented to the First Class Scout as a rite of passage. All of our Scouts wear our troop t-shirts that have the same custom troop design on the back and a custom design on the front pocket area that identifies the CO by name and location (as does the large decal on the troop trailer). That is just recognition for their efforts in chartering our troop. I do not think there needs to be any further patch or doo-dad on the field uniform to indicate their sponsorship.

Beavah,

I took your advise and dropped a line to BSA legal. . . but I am confused about your comment that it is not my business to inquire about it.

(edited to remove foot from mouth)(This message has been edited by Troop24)