Troop24

"Found I had to use a PC and Internet Explorer -- then I could register."

I do use a PC but I don't use Internet Explorer and I don't seem to any problems (other than the 502 and 504 errors that everyone seems to have been experiencing) and I am using Firefox!

I must admit I have never been to a Jamboree. . . but. The tools of the day must be relied upon to provide the the best management of the troop on the ground while at the jamboree and when touring areas around it like D. C. and other tourist areas (I personally don't think a cell phone is necessary at a normal summer camp, though.) I think that the Scouts that are going to Jamboree should be trusted to be able to make the own informed decisions and be relied upon to follow them with the proper guidance and mentoring from the adults around them. I was not implying simply throwing caution to the wind and allowing all sorts of electronic interference. I was suggesting that the PLC decide the course of action, after being given the options and the facts available at the time of decision making, rather than simply deciding for them.

Are they not going to be allowed to take other electronic items along? What about a digital camera, a video camera (like a Flip camera or something)? These can also be lost while on the ground at Jamboree or used inappropriately. The trip will be a long one for most contingents have you considered allowing the PLCs to condone hand-held game systems or MP3 players for the vehicles only?

Let the boys in on the decision making and hold them responsible. You might be surprised.

Gee BDPT00 so much for the boy led concept and the PLC deciding things.

I hate the term uniform police! If you are going to wear the uniform you need to wear it properly, its that simple. After 18 you wear the square knot like all other adults or not; that is your choice. But you do not have a choice to wear the patch on your pocket. I was able to wear the patch for about 9 months then I eagerly switched over to the square knot to complete my journey.

JoeBob, do you have a better link to your reference other than leading us to the front page of the site? Where do I go from there?

"Hopefully this thread will still not be active when he does."

Come on, Ed. It would be great to keep this thread alive for the next 10 or 11 years to see if Beavah's predictions come true about the rest of us becoming more restricted in our driving! Maybe Fish's son will have to drive us around instead.

Talk about thread drift! What do the last two pages have to do with declining LDS membership?

"At the troop level, all of the above, event specific, plus Wood Badge in order to go on outings with the boys."

IMHO that is simply overkill. You do not need Woodbadge to take the boys out on a week-end outing (or even summer camp.) For heaven's sake what is the world coming to?

For what it is worth in our neck of the woods we hold our Woodbadge training Thursday through Saturday due to the wishes of the local LDS sponsored units. I am not sure if that is an indication of too much influence or not.

TwoCubDad, here is a link to a free morse code font: http://tinyurl.com/ygftuns hope it works for you.

GHB,

As a fellow GA resident I know that the public school system has an on-going campaign against bullying. Physical and emotional bullying can be as damaging to the psyche as sexual molestation, especially bullying of a sexual nature. Just as Dan Kroh says it is about power not satisfaction for the abuser. I have been aware of hazing rituals in troops over the past 30 years that were sexual in nature but not necessarily gratifying to the hazer. Simply a rite of passage to "enter" the troop. I am not in any way condoning this practice, I abhor it; I don't even like snipe hunts, or singing for lost or forgotten items if the truth be known.

Bullies need to be rooted out of the program immediately upon their discovery if you are going to have the same opinion of gay individuals. Gay scouts have no choice over their sexual orientation, but bullies chose to be bullies. Bullies fail to live up to a minimum of 9 of the Scout Laws at even the quickest glance at their meanings (trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, brave. . . I won't go near reverent because that would be between the bully and his g-d.) How fair is it to the other scouts if we leaders agree to the advancement of bullies, that terrorize their lives, only living up to 25% of the Scout Law, and then trying to expect other Scouts to be better.

BTW Alfred Kinsey was an Eagle Scout from the class of 1913 which would make him among the founding members, wouldn't it?

"My take - if they treated homosexuality as a sin, as my religion teaches, these men would still be married fathers, hopefully being the spiritual leaders of their families. If they had homosexual urges, shouldn't they be able to control them, as you suggest GHB should be able to control his with another woman?"

Unfortunately the real lie began a long time before this when these men and women first realized that they were in fact attracted to people of their own gender and chose to cover their feelings and real desires in the name of faith, propriety, or self control. This denial is forced upon them because they have been raised to believe that it is sinful and evil to love someone of the same sex, even though you cannot control it. So these people live lives of shame and fear of discovery of their true identity. They seek out their true desires in the seedier areas that most of us never visit. They destroy the lives of their spouses and children through often loveless and sometimes abusive marriages. Simply because they were forced to lie to themselves from the beginning. You really think Larry Craig just had a "wide stance"?

HIV/AIDS was a long ignored illness because many thought it was simply a homosexual disease. But then those men who were hiding their real lives from their spouses brought reality home with a death sentence.

Time has come for bigotry and fear to take a back seat and for education to take the lead. Homosexuality is not a choice it is genetic and has been around since the dawn of man no matter how you think man came into existence.

I have been meaning to respond to this thread for sometime but have been somewhat at a loss about how to go about it. I am quite dismayed at the level of disdain for others that some members of this forum are willing to share. I understand that not everyone feels that they are getting the values based education they feel they deserve for their children so they homeschool. I can accept that as a valid option provided the children can still pass standardized tests that all other are required to pass for graduation. Tolerance for the faiths and belief systems of others, a Scout is Reverent! However, I fear that too often the homeschool process simply continues the propagation of bigotry and fear based hatred of things unknown onto the next generation through the guise of religious views.

GBH: I feel like you should start your comments by saying "I always thought these letters to Penthouse forum were made up until. . . " You must be a true Adonis; women want you, men want you and I bet fish fear you! I have never met anyone who has had so many people of both sexes make passes at them. I am not trying to make light of your life I am simply sitting here shaking my head in utter shock that you have survived this long. Your seemingly casual mention of rape and molestation of women in the the U.S. military is particularly troublesome to me. You appear to think that men should not be capable of controlling their sexual urges and that since they are the stronger gender they are simply going to have their way. "Good grief, I'm in my 50's and even now, I don't want to have to try to sleep in a tent with an attractive woman, unless she's my wife! Some of you have either forgotten a lot, or have some broken junk." Even you may have issues with self control, eh?

Funny thing is I took a vow some time back to be faithful in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad, in poor times and in wealth . . .a Scout is Trustworthy!

Maybe we should have all the women around here start wearing abayah and hijab so that the temptations would not be so great.

The concept that people cannot control their sexual urges is ridiculous. Your reference to raping of women soldiers is simply another tool used by men to show women their "proper" place in the society of the Army. It is an act of terrorism, plain and simple. Don't try to dress it up.

First I need to state I am not in favor of a special patch or knot to identify me or any other adult as a person that a scout should feel free to approach when they have something they need to talk about. If I am doing my job correctly the scout will already know that I can be approached and I will just have to "be prepared" to handle any subject matter that surfaces. That is not to say that I should be able to counsel him regarding all phases of human sexuality or even all religious issues he will be facing; but it does mean that I need to be able to answer the rudimentary questions and know where to direct him for the deeper answers he desires to more learned sources than me: ministers, counselors, and the like. I see that as my role as a mentor.

Now on to the reason I felt compelled to wade into this mire. BrentAllen said: "Honor is probably the most difficult virtue to uphold because it requires that one first be honest with oneself. If you can overlook or live with your own dishonor, then it's a simple matter to think that the rest of the world can also." On my honor. . . .I struggle to live up to the concept of honor on a daily basis along with the rest of the oath and the twelve points of the law. I do this for myself, my scout son, the scouts in my troop, and because I pledged to do so 30+ years ago when I received my Eagle. I struggle and I do not think I am a particularly sinful or bad person. I drink the occasional beer, tell the occasional off-color joke, get mad at the drivers around me, and things like that.

I simply cannot imagine dealing with a major question like a sexual identity that others will find deviant. I simply cannot understand why society deals the hatred and spite onto the poor soul that cannot change their desire. It is this time in their lives that people come to the true realization of who they are, sexually, politically, religiously, and any number of socially adaptive ways. Sexual orientation is not a choice as some believe, simply not, as a father I can attest to that from the experience of watching a child develop her identity. You cannot alter nature.

Society has come to the conclusion that in some cases it is okay to live a life of concealment and conceit, remaining in the closet and not allowing your true self to be revealed. That is a lie that everyone thinks is alright (A Scout is honest.) Or there is another concept of "Don't ask, don't tell", but that to is simply another lie. So Brent says to be honest with one's self. I guess that means the boy should leave scouting voluntarily then because the program does not want to support him. Because if he continues to live a lie he is living in dishonor.

Pretty sad conclusion from where I sit.

ThunderFox,

When I chose to start down this path path into Scouting more than 30 years ago as a youth member and I continue today on the journey, with my son, I have never expected perfection in any adult Scouter that I have encountered. I have been simply expecting them and myself to do our "best" to our duty to God, to our country, and to obey the Scout Law. We are after all mere mortals, not immortals, we are not capable of being perfect in any way.

Free will allows some of us to choose to smoke, even though we know that it is harmful, yet BSA looks the other way when leaders do that out of the view of the youth; and while I am free of that habit, some of us will choose to have a drink of alcohol or two, I am among those, though I never do at a BSA event. Does that make me less than qualified to be an adult leader? Should I turn my Eagle Scout Badge back into National Headquarters?

From where I sit there is no perfect organization in existence that is cranking out perfect little citizens free from every imaginable defect leading the rest us to freedom. I cannot think of one political, religious, educational, or other organization that can boast a perfect record.

I do not judge anyone. I simply ask them to do their level best to be fair, honest, and try to live up to the Scout Oath and Law. Adult leaders are there to set the example not to be sanctimonious critics of their peers.

[[climbs off soapbox now]]