5yearscouter

_{Yeah I get the job of dealing with this as the new advancement chair and it's a lot of fun}

_{Point in my favor is that I have one of the oldest and most respected troop committee members/troop chaplain who sat on this board}

_{Each of the BOR members ad a heads up going into it that neither the parent, scout, sm nor adv chair could make them put a different date on the advancement form. That they had to unanimously decide if they were going to use a different date other than the date of the actual BOR.}

_{I also have made a  spreadsheet showing PERFECT dates for each and every BOR = this many eagle palms, and that is unattainable because we meet on Mondays so we aren't going to get SM conferences on weds or sunday etc. and showing the adjustment for that how many palms the scout could attain.} 

SM held 1/11/15 for scout's first bronze palm. 

court of honor end of February when advancement chair found out.

first of march new advancement chair takes over

sends scout info that a bor is required and we'd like to schedule it asap

asks for him to complete eagle palm application and bring it the next week.

March 7 scout shows, no book (can't hold him back on bor if no book and told him so)

ask if he completed the eagle palm application, answers no

suggests they sit down and write out the palm application so the BOR would know which 5 merit badges were being used for the palm.

Scout decides to take it home and come back prepared the next week.

Scout comes back March 28 with palm application and date of BOR already filled in for 1/11/15

BOR discusses the issue, and looks at troop advancement records

and holds the palm BOR and dates it for the actual date 3/28

they discussed the issue with the scout and he was ok with it,

that they didn't feel it was honest to date it for the incorrect date.

Mom is furious, that scout will age out 5 weeks before he could get his 10th palm. The board feels like adjusting the date would be wrong also cause scout himself delayed BOR by 3 of the 5 weeks

The only way scout would have gotten that 10th palm is if SM conferences were held exactly 3 months after each prior palm bor, regardless of day of the week or if it's a troop elections or court of honor when SM conferences aren't usually done and neither are bor.  And that's if we could get 3 adults to sit the BOR on that same date and if the scout doesn't get sick and miss a day.  That would be with absolutely perfect dates.  It is likely that with adjustments for those things the scout could still get 3 bronze, 3 gold and 3 silver.  But he is still back here on palm #1

Be careful and be on the lookout.  If you have shy scouts, those who have trouble making friends, every time you mix up the patrols and don't let him hang out with the one friend he has, you risk losing him.

Also when you talk about how to keep the older guys happy and maybe they can go on a longer backpacking trip when the younger guys are just hiking, you've already seen the signs of a need for an older scout "venture" patrol.  Denying that it should exist, forcing the older guys to be in a patrol of younger guys when they didn't EACH individually be asked to mentor those young guys, is how the older guys learn to stay home so they don't have to babysit.  Like some older scouts have the temperament to be a big brother and teacher to the younger guys but not all older scouts can do that.  If there's two or more older guys in each of the patrols it's easy for the older guys to buddy up and talk common interests and ignore the younger guys. 

We were in forced by adults mixed aged patrols and lost on average 75% of the new scouts between bridging in March/April and sometime before school restarting in August.  Now we have a new scout patrol with an older age Troop Guide and we are keeping 75% or more of the new guys at least thru August.  In August If they have made friends outside of the new scout patrol they can ask to join another patrol.  so it's not NSP forever.

Trying to make a long story short,

what do you do when the SM tells a scout that a BOR is NOT needed for an Eagle Palm, and there isn't an advancement sheet Nor the Eagle Palm application because the BOR members would have signed those docs

It comes out at the next court of honor a month+ later when SM is mad that the scout didn't get his palm since the advancement chair didn't know to even go and buy the Palm.

Do you do the BOR as soon as you get an Eagle Palm application from the scout?  Do you date it for the date the BOR was actually done, or the date it should have been done? Because the BOR dated it for the day it was actually done and now the scout's MOM is complaining that he'll now miss out on getting his 9th eagle palm by 5 weeks....

My oldest went to 2010 National Jamboree.  He paid $500 because he got the spot when someone backed out, and council kept most of their money and sold the spot to my son.  He had like a month to get ready. 

His favorite part was the pre-Jamboree tour around all the historical sights DC, NY, Boston the whole shebang, motor coach, all meals and hotel stays.  He was sick for all of Jamboree, and nobody would buy the kid cold medicine so he was miserable the whole time.

My youngest would like to do the tour, but didn't really want to do the Jamboree part.  But I think it's $3500 and that's undoable.

I emailed national advancement and didn't expect to get an answer.

I basically sent just what the op above says and the answer I got today is

"Simply, you are correct and your ASM/District Commissioner is incorrect. The FAQ’s located at www.scouting.org/programupdates under the Boy Scouting category answers this question."

the council registrar is at fault for not catching, and their software should have caught it as well.

So call the council registrar and her boss the scout executive to be sure it's known that it wasn't caught at various points along the way.

but also call national and see what they say and get it in writing.

People keep saying let your DE know, and I'm laughing at that, cause they know nothing about advancement and what to do about this.

I've been membership chair and caught a 9 year old applying.  They were transferring from cubs to boy scouts.  It's easy to miss unless your membership software/troopmaster catches it.

I'm taking over advancement for the troop in March and I don't want him spreading rumors. Some are confused enough about the changes in ranks for 2016 they don't need to worry about anything extra.

You are correct. Those scouts who were FC and started working on Star in 2015 can complete Star under the 2015 requirements.

http://usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsrank5.asp

 

But this reminds me of the email from council/BSA that all adult leaders must complete Reading Comprehension in 2016.

yeah I'm thinking that he needs to take Reading Comprehension in 2016

Ok I know what BSA says about the new ranks for 2016+

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/2016BoyScoutRequirements_8.14.2015.pdf

and for transition to the new ranks

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/program_update/pdf/Transitioning_New_Requirements_2016.pdf

So I read that for those who are currently working on Star from 2015 they can continue to finish star with old requirements thru Dec 2016.  Under the old requirements there is no need for Cyber Chip. correct?

EXCEPT we have an ASM who is also a district commissioner so he likes to try to pull rank,

and he's saying that he got something by email from council/BSA that says anyone going for star in 2016 has to have Cyber Chip.  He says the email said that the cyber chip part was going into effect in January for everyone wanting to get Star.

I've asked for him to forward this email he received so we are all on the same page, but I don't think it exists.  Or maybe it just doesn't say what he thinks it says.

He's trying to hold up advancement for the few boys who are finishing Star but haven't completed Cyber Chip.

Anyone seen anything that might back up what he's trying to say?

Otherwise I'm printing the transition page from BSA and pinning it on the bulletin board and daring anyone to hold up a Star rank due to cyber chit as they'd be adding to the requirements.

We were going to change from scout accounts to a scout bucks prizes for fundraisers program.

Sell within a certain range of popcorn and get a coupon for a campout,

a higher sells numbers get a coupon for x% off summer camp.

a certain range of sales, pays for your recharter for the year.

so like sell $100-$200 in popcorn and get a campout coupon

post flags for our flag program fundraiser and get two free campout coupons

sell $250-400 get recharter paid

sell $500 and get $100 off of summer camp.

It was also going to include  advancing in rank, get a free campout coupon,

Getting chosen for a por and going to tlt get a free campout coupon.

Highest attendance at meetings, get a free campout coupon.

and maybe a couple other things.

With off the top of profit at least x% going into the troop account general fund

and x% going into a campership fund that would award things like free campout coupons.

of course one of the questions will be have you participated in the fundraisers, but also advancing, pors, and family need levels.

And that the troop would toss in a few of the coupons for door prizes for attendance at court of honors and service projects just for fun.

The idea is that the reward/benefit would not be determined only by how much popcorn you sell,

and that a reward/benefit can be earned without participation in the fundraiser itself.

But that if you do participate extra in the fundraisers, you could "earn" more and help pay your way to camping.

It would be more work for someone to track at least at first, but once the certificates were passed out it would be up to the boy/family to keep track of

Then our CO said they didn't think it was a problem and to continue what we are currently doing. Our CO is a small non-profit with express purpose of keeping up our local scout lodge and supporting local packs/troops.

We sell over $20k in popcorn and scouts "earn" 35% profit.,

but we also get about $9 k a year from our troop flag fundraiser and only about 10% of that goes out to the youth as reward for working the program.

Right now all profit from popcorn goes to the scout, he can use it on campouts, summer camp, recharter, food for campouts, uniforms, hiking boots, etc etc.  And if we go skiing, he can use the $ to pay for his family's costs if it's designated a family outing.....

And when he changes troops he can take the money with him even if it's a different CO.  It sure looks like a bad case of private benefit and not enough other funds in the CO so that it's insubstantial amount.  But I'm not a tax lawyer.

In our pack meetings we always had

sign in at the door so we knew who was there

some displays of what the scouts have made or done over the past month

gathering activity was a very simple craft, or game.  something 5 minutes maybe

we had themed neckerchief slides, often they were the gathering activity to make a neckerchief slide to wear for the month. So for October it would be make a ghost neckerchief slide with a piece of pvc cut thin for the slide part, take a square of white fabric, cotton balls in the middle, wrap around a pipe cleaner to make the head and attach to the pvc and sharpie on 2 eyes and a mouth. simple and neat looking too. 

Then flag ceremony--we rotated and each month a different den would do the flags, practicing to carry the pack flag and American flag to the front and lead everyone in the pledge and cub scout promise (Scout oath)

Cubmaster would often come out dressed as a character for that month.  This was when national was pushing themes like Knights of the roundtable and the cubmaster would come out dressed as a king (bathrobe and a burger king crown lol)

He would do a cheer or a repeat after me song or something to get everyone excited.

The would call up the den leader to present their den's awards,

often the den leader would have the scouts come up and do a cheer, the den cheer, a short skit or sing a little song first, before or after the awards..

for ranks parents come up and pin on awards and we make a huge deal of it

Most things it would be just the scout, or scout and parent when tigers are too scared to go up on stage by themselves.

sometimes the awards were given out very nicely, Cubmaster would take the award from the den leader and "I dub you George the trustworthy" with the awards given out with a flourish to "knight" the kid. 

Sometimes they were unfortunately just a baggy with a list of awards written on the front.

When there were LOTS of awards for each rank, the den would be encouraged to hand out some of the "less important" things in den meetings, trying to keep awards at pack meeting just the top 2-3 things for each kid.  At one point a den leader was so crazy putting their large den in for every single thing we had to make a financial ruling to give out no more than 2-4 awards per month that the pack would pay for up to a certain $ amount.  The den could use den dues to pay for the remainder, collect from the parent, or wait til next month for the remainder.  It helped slow down dens pushing to earn 10 belt loops a month that was just more than the pack could afford.  

There would be a pack game together, sometimes as simple as having the whole pack see how long to keep a balloon in the air from their chairs, or how many balloons can the whole pack keep in the air at the same time, adding a new balloon every minute or so.  sometimes it was something more elaborate.  One that made people really laugh was a race to blow a feather across the floor of the cafeteria to the other side, the prize was just a big sparkly feather.  Parents almost killed themselves trying to blow a small feather across the floor.  For Halloween we tied a white balloon with a face drawn on to the legs of kids and adults who wanted to play, and then played stomp the ghost.  Last kid with an unbroken balloon would win a bag of Halloween candy.

we'd do very quick announcements.  My favorite announcement was "grab a copy of the newsletter off that table, no I'm not going to read it to you". and flags taken down.

Stay after for cookies and clean up.  Kids inevitably start playing a game and you have to chase everyone out.

for your pack you'll have to decide if the adventure loops will be given out at pack meetings or den meetings.  It might be nice to give out at a pack meeting at least occasionally.  For some kids being called to the front of the room at a large pack meeting is very exciting and worth the time it takes to do that for ever scout.  Maybe at least acknowledge the loops at every meeting, with them getting the loop itself at the den meetings.  then you are just reading names, handing out cards.  which is, of course, kinda boring. 

set up some traditions and expectations in your pack.

and recruit yourself some help!!!!

Hugs to you and your family.

The OA broken arrow ceremony is special if she was an OA member.

We also had a funeral service that ended with all the verses of scout vespers which seemed to resonate.

You may want to think of any other scout songs that she appreciated,

heck if she was a campfire loving girl a solumn campfire program might be in order.

She will be missed.

I think a scout should say he's working on this requirement and wants to be patrol cook the whole weekend.

Similarly if he's working on cooking merit badge he'd need/want to go ahead and do more cooking all at once rather than a meal here or there.

Oh gosh, definitely sell popcorn. Right there at the spot where the busses pull up to let people off and pick them up.  Set up a huge table and a bullhorn style obnoxious selling style is optional.  Have each scout and parent go to each individual waiting for the bus and ask them to buy popcorn. 

When the park gets angry at you selling in a public park, then ask them isn't that exactly what the casinos are doing?  Using a public park for Private business gain.

I would focus on the traffic flow issue, and the safety issue of big buses pulling up to a city park full of kids running around.

All it takes is one squished kid, but let's pray it doesn't get to that point.

Get out of the habit/mentality of one and done.

It will be GOOD for the boys to repeat requirements, but doing them in a different way the 2nd time, so anyone who has already done it won't be bored, and anyone who hasn't done it yet will be able to finish the adventure. Have the boys that already did it one time work to teach it to their buddy that missed out whenever possible, which will help them take over the boy lead of boy scouting.

Of course, sometimes you just don't have time to get everything done twice.  So focus on repeating parts of required badges often enough for completion, if you leave one thing or so to be done at home, that's fine.  And electives become just that, don't repeat electives unless it's a useful scout skill like knots or cooking or hiking and camping or first aid

Thanks I enjoyed reading that!

Congrats to Dick!

google your council office,

click around and find a contact us list

Do you know what District you are in within your council?

If so you need the District Executive for that District.

If you do not know what district you are in, you can call the council office and talk to the registrar and they can tell you and let you know who to talk to.  If that person doesn't call you back, you can work your way up the chain of command til you talk to the scout executive--or their secretary anyways.

At our council all the District Executives stood up and changed chairs/offices and their numbers didn't always follow along and they now are over different units.  We also lost several District Executives and new ones hired, so if I was a confused new leader and tried to call the contact number of the prior person, I would probably NOT get any response. 

I say that just so you know not to assume that council is ignoring you.

Now as to explaining the program and how things work in the new cub scouts stuff

yeah you aren't really going to get that answer from the council office.

They aren't the ones who work directly with units to explain or train.

Find out from your district executive who is the district trainer and try to contact them to get some help.

unit commissioner is good, but ours doesn't know much about the new cub scout program any more than I do.

Since the program i s new, not many people know any more than what is in the online training stuff

and the books.

Go to the scout shop and buy the leader books for all the cub levels and make sure every leader has a copy of the youth book as well.  Look at the options for the Pack leader guides as well. 

training is moving from www.myscouting.org to https://my.scouting.org

log in there and take training.

If a unit leader cubmaster, committee chair and chartering organization representative can all log into my.scouting and get a current roster and ensure that everyone has left the unit that was supposed to and that all new cubs are registered.  Make sure if they are new people that they know this information so they can monitor that new scouts are actually getting registered in your unit and not the other unit.

As to assistance, in some areas there is Scoutreach dollars that can pay yearly registration fees for low income peoples, or help buy uniforms etc..  When Our pack was started the DE had scoutreach $ and wanted to have everyone in our pack fill out a form--or he was going to do it for us--to get part of the registration fees covered by council, even those who didn't need the $.  So it could be something like that, or could be that the old committee people had some kind of fund and they covered part of pack/registration fees out of that.  If your new people know how it was done, just suggest to them that they touch base with everyone and start over again, as it appears someone was applying for some kind of funds in your name.  it could have been nefarious or it could have been a bulk thing done at some time and everyone involved never actually knew about it. and then if they were afraid to approach people it just continued without any questions. 

good luck!

So YOU contact the prior troop and get the info and hand deliver it to the scoutmaster, and again ask if there is anything you or X committee member can do to help him with all the piles of paperwork so he can focus on the scouts.

And if he doesn't help at that point with it all laid out easy for him,, then go find a different troop. 

I hope you're printing them in black ink!

 

and do you have one of those paper cutters that cuts them squarely?

 

Oh, and is your nickname "Monk"?

 

Okay, okay, his is my 3rd edit.  But did anyone check to see if these cards are copyrighted?  

We don't normally print blue cards, cause it is less expensive AND less time is involved to just buy them than to buy the blue cardstock, pay to print them(or buy ink) and then to cut them apart--and then you have to cut them apart as completed into each of the three segments as well.  It's a bit of a hassle.  Our council camp does like it when we print our own for summer camp, cause the three segments don't get separated as easily during summer camp stuff when there is a lot of wear on blue cards.

Someone thought it was such a good idea to print them that they bought a box of blue cardstock and donated it to the troop. So we  occasionally print blue cards but most of them we buy.  If bsa would sell them three on a sheet so we could run them thru the printer with a template to fill in name of scout and unit number etc, that would be very useful for summer camp purposes, but that takes away the scout doing part of the work to own the process.

Of course they are copyrighted to the BSA! everything is copyrighted to the BSA in scouting isn't it?

@

We have had a few scouts in our district show up to their Eagle BOR with the blue cards for merit badges that had not been entered into internet advancement yet.  And they still got their Eagle, cause the paperwork part screw up is an adult thing, and adult screw ups shouldn't hold up a boy from advancement. 

I think you need to request a copy of your son's advancement report directly from council office.  Call them up and see if they will email you a pdf of it.  That can be very useful so you can see how far back you need to go to get the troop records, the internet advancement records and your son's records (book + blue cards+ mb/rank cards given at CofHs) to totally match. 

Sometimes when people get behind on the paperwork, they enter advancement into internet advancement cause they need that report to buy the badges, and figure they'll enter stuff into Troopmaster later.  Most do it the other way around, enter it in troopmaster, cause then they can upload the report to internet advancement, but sometimes the auto upload doesn't work cause names and identifying info doesn't match exactly or some other glitch.

or people just print them off, they don't have to be on blue paper.

 My ASM that does advancement is a little OCD.  

FYI @@Stosh I own the "right" color blue cardstock myself so I can print them the "right" color.

But it's not necessary.

I'd stick all the boys in the big tent together and have the adult tents as far away as you/parents can handle.

And then when they are up all night long Friday night, Saturday night they will retire to sleep early and it will be nice and quiet the second night. 

Then when they are done with that, then borrow some smaller tents and have them buddy up two in a tent like the boy scouts and do similarly. 

So they can see more than one way to camp.

Then pass the huge tent down to the next level boys so they can give it a try.

Our people just print them off on blue paper.  

or people just print them off, they don't have to be on blue paper.

I would always counsel boys to keep their blue cards. It is the only record he controls of what he's done. Rank cards and blue cards are copied and put in to the iCloud in my house, just in case. 

Yeah definitely don't toss his copy of the blue cards, keep them just in case. Always compare them to the date on the merit badge card he gets at court of honors and make sure everything matches.  Better to catch that sooner than later.

and we want troops to keep their copy

and we hope merit badge counselors keep their copy.

But as far as getting his Eagle, blue cards are used for proving he completed the merit badges and getting them entered on his official records with BSA.  Then blue cards lose most of their importance and aren't necessary to HAVE in hand for any other reason in the advancement process

If he is working with an Eagle Counselor, ask them if they can get a copy of his advancement report from council office,

or call council up yourself and ask for a copy.  The troop can also provide you a copy in PDF form out of internet advancement.  It would be a good idea to see what is entered and what hasn't been entered.  Especially as a transfer from another troop, you may find that the prior troop didn't enter everything for the scout and his scout record is empty (we've had it happen and not caught til going for Eagle) or you may see that everything is entered and the fuss over blue cards is more cause he didn't ever receive the mb patch, rather than due to lack of recording the mb.