Tokala

I have a sneaky suspicion that approximately 635 tax cheats prowl the halls of Congress. They just haven't been caught yet.

Oddly enough, my business has increased since around September 2008. From January 2001-September 2008, my business was a rollercoaster. I would go 3 months without any work and then get slammed for 3 months. Luckily, I learned about "thrifty" when I was much younger. My business is in injection mold manufacturing and overall the local industry has lost about 60-70% of the companies. The Chinese, greedy corporate boards, and Americans that like cheap disposable goods, severely impacted this business. There were no bailouts for manufacturing when it became a struggling sector of the economy. Guess we weren't as important as the banks. I make 25% less than I did in 1993 when I started the business. At one time I made more than double what I do now. There does seem to be just enough work around to maintain the business although I won't be retiring early. What some people would consider odd is that my business has always been markedly better with a Democrat in the White House.

My IRA-SEP is down by about 30-35%, but I'm 20-25 years away from drawing on that so I'm not too concerned right now.

West Central Florida Council has charged $1500-1800 the last 2 Jamborees. It covers all the costs to attend Jamboree (national's fee, transportation, and touring). The Council typically charges the particpants for the tentage and the tentage is retained by the Council for summer camp use. The Council lost money on the 2005 Jamboree largely due to Scouts failing to pay their fees.

For 2010, the Jamboree committee, which I am a member, has decided to not purchase tents again. Summer camp and the camping committee has said that they have adequate canvas for summer camp. This reduces the cost $150-300 per Scout. We are also looking at reducing the touring and time to save cost as well as the "fluff" or "schwag" that is typically generated (patches, duffelbags, t-shirts, etc ad nauseum). Our target fee for the 2010 Jamboree is $1500.

As others previously posted, the scoutmaster conference is not a pass-fail situation. However, the leadership and scout spirit are requirements that the scoutmaster can use to encourage "remedial" work.

Sounds like your son has already severed ties with the troop and enjoys his time with the venture crew. Have him complete his final steps with them.

As for payment schedules. There is a $100 deposit due on January 31st. I know that my Council will front that money for at least one full troop. We have been granted two troops, but I don't see us being able to find enough qualified adult leadership. We'll probably only use one troop and surrender the other back to National.

I serve on our Council's Jambo committee. As for costs, I can tell you that the bulk of the additional cost is transportation and touring.

It's been tradition for my Council that the Jamboree troops replenish summer camp canvas for the Council. I raised hell about it as a 17yo in 1981 when I went to Jambo and I'm making suggestions that we evaluate alternatives to make Jamboree affordable.

I've also seen where the Council contigents have t-shirts, Jamboree Council strips, and dufflebags, etc. These are additional costs. Sometimes the urge to be "uniform" and create schwag adds to the costs and can price things out of the range of some families. In a weak economy, hopefully people are aware that the "goodies" may cost a kid a chance to experience Jamboree.

I doubt that your Council fee will include the uniforms and patches (other than the Jamboree patch) needed to bring them up to standard. In 1981, the had just introduce the Oscar de la Renta uniform and required participants to wear it.(This message has been edited by Tokala)

National has the NOAC 2009 website up and running. Applications for NOAC staff are available through the website. Although they have not had the National meeting yet, I heard from a Nat'l Committee member a week ago that the fee has increased. NOAC will cost $395 in 2009. Here's the link:

http://event.oa-bsa.org/events/n2009/

Very well said, Beavah!

"If it's your business, are't you one of the stockholders? So the hit that you're taking gets redirected into your own pocket."

I'm the only shareholder. I also only employ 1 person: me. I used to have enough work to subcontract and hire parttime help. That hasn't occurred since January 2001.

I have my own business and the best years I had were from 1993-January 2001. Since then, it's been a struggle. I'm in manufacturing and we've taken the hit so shareholders get a bigger dividend check.

I'm amazed at all the mass hysteria today about how Obama is going to have carte blanche to make all of these changes. Let's face the reality that government is much more complicated.

Back in August, the GAO released a report that revealed this gem:

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Most U.S. and foreign corporations doing business in the United States avoid paying any federal income taxes, despite trillions of dollars worth of sales, a government study released on Tuesday said.

The Government Accountability Office said 72 percent of all foreign corporations and about 57 percent of U.S. companies doing business in the United States paid no federal income taxes for at least one year between 1998 and 2005."

So, maybe these taxes that Obama is going to impose on businesses will be on the 57% that have for many years enjoyed a "wealth distribution"?

Link:

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN1249465620080812

scoutingagain wrote:

"This is a "crisis" because the "haves" are losing what they have. Not because the "have nots" are losing something they didn't have. As I said before, the loss of over 200,000 manufacturing jobs, over the last 8 years was not a crisis. The foreclosure of thousands of homes was not a crisis. Maybe to the individuals involved, but not to this government."

The loss of manufacturing jobs was not a crisis, but it was a symptom of the current crisis. The loss of manufacturing jobs was driven by the desire of the American public for cheap, disposable "gadgets" and the desire of big corporations to show profits and pay dividends.

I have worked in the injection molding business for 25 years. ten years ago, the county I live/work in had 50-60 small, private shops that either built injection molds or ran production. Most of these employed 12-20 people and paid salaries 2x-3x minimum wage. Currently there's about 20 shops left and most have about 6-10 employess and salaries are just above minimum wage. Their sales are probably about 1/2 what they were 10 years ago.

It's not a crisis, but look at the loss of income (taxes) for the government. Payroll taxes, property taxes, tangible and intangible property taxes, and sales taxes. Shops can't find skilled machinists any more when they do need to hire because no one wants to take another chance in the industry. The ones that are left are smart, cautious and most have either DOD contracts or supply medical products which have offshore manufacturing restrictions.

The current situation is of a much larger and systematic scale. From my perspective, some tariff/trade restrictions could have helped keep American manufacturers remain competitve, but they chose free market action. Selfishly, I'd like to see them take the same attitude with the banks and Wall Street greed that's got us in this mess.

For 8 years the President has repeatedly told the American people to shop their way out of economic hiccups. It's a horrible way to manage the economy. Advertising and government urges people to spend instead of living within their means. If people used common sense instead of feeding the urge to have the latest gadget or "hottest" car, there wouldn't be such an issue. Of course, if the banks, investment banks, and governments (whether local, state, or federal) used the same method, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I was a youth at the 1981 Jamboree. Two things stand out:

#1) My parents receiving a letter from the National Office of the BSA after the Jamboree disclosing the incident of the leaking drum of dioxin that was stored immediately adjacent to the merit badge midway. I still have my button claiming "I Survived A.P. Hill's Spill"

#2) I served as the SPL and on the bus ride to Jamboree, my ASPL declared that he was going to take over as SPL. At our next stop, I dismissed the troop, including the adults, except for the ASPL and his cohort. Once everyone was off the bus, I carefully and pointedly explained that I was the SPL and he could remain ASPL and attend the Jamboree or he could go home. I didn't have any problems with him after that.

"If you have a Troop Committee that has no idea what OA is, then how does one become a member of OA? I am trying to get some eagle scouts involved with OA, but the troop committee does not want them involved unless one of the leaders are involved."

It depends on the age of the Eagle Scouts. Those under the age of 18 are elected by the youth in the troop and the Scoutmaster requests the election. Those over the age of 18 are subject to the 1 adult per unit nomination by the troop committee. The Scoutmaster contacts the OA directly and requests an election. The troop committee is not part of the process. An election and an adult nomination can be held once every charter year.

"The old course required the patrols to plan plan their patrol gear, the new course does not.

The old course required the the patrols to plan for an overnight hike, the new course doe not."

I suggest you check the syllabus. The patrols do hike to the outdoor experience upon their arrival on Day 4. In preparation for that they spend time on Day 2, 3 and in between the weekends planning for their hike and their outdoor experience. You are correct in that there really is no need for the 30-day pre-course gathering.(This message has been edited by Tokala)

rdcrisco, that's great that you're making the effort to get trained. I was a troop guide on the last course my council held. One of the patrol members is a Scoutmaster of an LDS unit. I learned a lot about LDS units and he learned a lot about what options he had to get his Scouts more involved with non-LDS Scout events. Good luck!

"I found it interesting that the OAImages blog has an ad for dianetics.org"

I don't. My council has a sizeable number of units and members chartered to Scientology.

nolesrule is correct about the origination.

National has stripped the old numbers from the lodges and has replaced them with the council numbers. They do allow the lodges to use the old numbers, but paperwork and forms all refer to the lodge using the council number. For example, Timuquan 340 is technically now Timuquan 89. Patches and merchandise still use "340", but paperwork from Region or National uses "89".

The training required is dependent upon your PRIMARY registered position. Primary is the one that you pay the registration fees. Many people are dual-enrolled. Den leaders, whether they're Tiger, Cub or Webelos, need Den Leader specific training. The only positions that require Intro to outdoor Skills are SM, ASM, Varsity Coach, Varsity Asst. Coach.

Wood badge uses the patrol method through the majority of the material. I would get a basic idea of how that works and how a troop is supposed to function before attending.

The OA is a very important part of my life. While it's disheartening to read about the closure of Treasure Island to camping, it makes sense to me given the financial situation and building codes/environmental situation. What makes the most sense to me is to close it and see about selling/donating it as some type of park/preserve to some organization other than BSA (deeper pockets). If people, especially OA members, still have access to visit, the only thing lost is the ability to camp there.

Glad you're OK 1hour. I was at our first weekend of wood badge so was largely uninformed of when/where Ike made landfall. I've looked at some of the pictures of the destruction along the beaches. I strongly suspect that when the Tampa Bay area gets hit, that's the same type of destruction you'll see along our beaches.

Perhaps, it's more related to the country that they did wood badge or Cub Scout Wood badge? A member of my local council has completed wood badge in a couple countries other than the USA and his critter/patrol is not the typical US critters. We also have a member who is a raven from a Cub Scout wood badge course.

All I want to hear is candidates outlining their plans. Get over the attack ads/swiftboating...that's so Rove.

I await the debates in hopes that I'll hear something, anything from a candidate talking about their ideas or plans, rather than how utterly inept their opponent appears.

As for the lipstick comment, I couldn't count how many times I've used the same comment about politics, Scouting, ad naseum. Politicians are all pigs feeding at the lobbyists' trough.

I agree it's not a catastrophe to disregard the "veto" rule. It's not a health or safety issue. I was elected and inducted in March 1977. The rule regarding SM approval prior to the vote and no "veto" power has been on the books since then.

We read many threads in these boards concerning leaders ignoring/violating rules, or just plain confusion/misinterpretation of BSA policies. The SM veto concept just seems to be wrong on 2 very different levels: #1) violates policy, and #2) violates the concept of a youth led program.(This message has been edited by Tokala)

belayer wrote:

"To ASM915 and others about Shawnee and the post election veto issue: I truely can't give the history of when the lodge started this procedure. It could very well have been the process recommended by national way back then and changed several times. National OA leadership must not be too worried about it; kids from Shawnee have been elected as region and section chiefs."

The thing that leaps out to me is the idea of ignoring the rules. Not just because of the rules, but because we're involved in an organization (BSA) that promotes good citizenship and character development. It seems hypocritical to promote these things while ignoring the rules.

Is that what we really want to teach young men?