Tokala

Scouting was my major activity throughout my childhood. I was very active in the Council as a youth. I continued my involvement after my 18th birthday largely due to the opportunities presented by the OA. I have remained active ever since. I do not have any children, but enjoy working with and challenging youth to test themselves.

I have 2 major reasons for staying involved:

#1) I tend to run interference for the youth and deflect the meddling, overbearing, stuffy adults. I've always got a smile and having fun and yet I seem to be able to get the "values" stuff across to the kids. I also wanted to model the good adult role models that I had a youth and hope that the youth have the same chance to grow as I did.

#2) I have fun. I meet people that I know share the same ideals and values. The best friendships that I have ever had have always been through Scouting, whether as a youth or an adult.

"Since that is a rather extinct East cost culture, I don't see much mentioned in the current OA handbook, other then very general regalia references."

The Delaware, Lenni Lenape, still exist. They currently reside in Oklahoma and still hold dances. I was associated with their elected chief, Curtis Zunigha, during the '96 & '98 NOACs. I'm sure that there are still sources for their traditional clothing, although they too use the more common pow wow dance styles.

"In the guide to inductions it states that ceremony teams should if at all possible use regalia as would be worn by local peoples. I conclude by this that if any dancing also occurs then it should also be of a local type. "

That would cause serious problems in the Tampa Bay area. The local culture was Timucua or Weeden Island culture. These people heavily tattooed themselves and wore clothing made from Spanish moss. That's why we've been using Seminole clothing.

The best way to get youth interested is to take them to pow wows, even if it's just for a day. They'll get a good idea of everything that happens, from the drum, songs, dance styles, etc. That's what really worked for the team my lodge had 10 years ago.

P.S. I heard rumors at the AC5 event at Washington-Jefferson of the good possibility of another Indian Summer event within the next 3 years.

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His attitude reflects many of the other youth and adults that participated. My squad also voiced their disappointment that they didn't get to finish.

They did announce that they had renamed a trail in the Forest to "Arrow Corps Loop" to recognize the effort and project.

Thank you. I served as a squad leader for the event, as well as a van driver to the project sites and helping with logistics. I was one of about 6 leaders to last leave the camp and I didn't get on the road home until about 2 pm on Saturday.

There were 2 different project areas: Warm Springs and James River. Warm Springs did some trail maintenance, built campsite pads, and built a trail that winds along the shore of Lake Moomaw. James River was all about building trails. There were 4 major projects: Peter's Ridge, Fore Mountain, Douthat Connector and McGraw Loop. It was an ambious project and unfortunately the only one conpleted was Douthat Connector.

If he came home jazzed up, then we accomplished our goal. It wasn't necessarily about the trails or the work, but the experience. I'd rate it higher than National Jamboree, but less than a Philmont experience.(This message has been edited by Tokala)

I've been involved in various stages of forming/maintaining the dance/sing team in my local lodge. Being in Florida, plains culture isn't accessible to Scouts without attending pow wows or adults with a lot of knowledge and willingness to coach and work with the youth. We have gone without a dance team for about 10 years and the sing team keeps trying to get something started. IMHO taking the interested youths to pow wows works the best. Currently, we only have 2-3 youth interested and we drag the drum put and let members hear in order to try and get them interested. I am not currently the sing/dance team advisor, so I tread lightly and try to assist the current situation.

I just returned tonight from the GW-Jeff AC5 event. What an absolutely amazing experience! I watched as 60 Scouts cutting a hiking trail through National Forest lands that even the rangers had never walked. To look to my left and right and see a line of 60 Scouts and Scout leaders working on a project of such magnitude made me smile.

At the closing show it was announced that the BSA had contributed over 70,000 hours of volunteer service to the GW-Jeff Nat'l Forest.

I've been a chapter advisor several times through the years, and emb021 nailed it: PROGRAM. Scouts and leaders are overwhelmed with busy schedules and a meeting "just because" won't draw the attendance and serves no purpose. The last time I was a chapter advisor I offered ideas such as BBQs, helping with the annual shoreline cleanup, a Toys for Tots drive at Christmas time, etc. The chapter chief decided to stay with chapter meetings at roundtable. Once he made that decision, I required him to have a program that revolved around something other than food. He couldn't pull it together, so we cancelled the meetings. To this day, the chapter is still largely dysfunctional and has minimal attendance at lodge activities. Our last Ordeal weekend had about 120 lodge members present, this particular chapter had 3 youth and 3 adults participating.

Leadership styles vary through the entire spectrum of the organization and at every level. The patrol method is a way of dividing the youth into teams of 8 to give them an opportunity to grow. It's not in the details of the syllabus, but in the growth that each young person experiences. They're all not the next BP or Green Bar Bill, and neither are the adults.

It's a red herring to throw out the concept that modern leadership models mentioned in the wood badge syllabus are trying to usurp the patrol method.

Couning the number of times a word is used in a publication does not guarantee that it's practiced religiously.

I cringe everytime I read in the paper or see on the news a statement like: "gas prices will reach $4 soon." As soon as the media publishes a comment like that, it's like giving the gas companies the OK to raise the price. It's like the media is conditioning the customers to believe and giving the gas companies the ability to raise the price, warranted or not.

I was not aware that this training exists. We have a course this fall and discussed our plans if we had to deal with a hurricane(s). The CD is a county employee and would have to report to the bunker if emergency evacuations are called. After careful consideration, we realized that the course would be cancelled anyhow because everyone, not just the CD, would be evacuating or boarding up their houses.

Since 1961, my family has been in the tool & die/plastic injection molding business. I'm the 3rd generation. The business has always been ccylic and oddly runs nearly opposite of the majority of the economy. It tends to start downturns sooner and recover earlier. Back in the 80's the industry was concerned about the business going to Portugal, in the 90's it was Mexico, and now it's China. Locally there were 30-40 small, private shops that employed 10-20 guys at wages around $18-20/hour. Now there's probably no more than 10 shops and each may have 2-3 guys at lower wages.

I have gone through periods of 3-4 months without landing any jobs and thusly no invoicing. If I wasn't smart enough to save when times were better, I'd be out of business years ago.

I've called all the shops locally in the last couple of weeks looking to see if they have work quoted that I can design. None, zip, nada. I doubt that when I return from Arrow Corps 5 that I will have business and that this will be the year I shut things down and look for a new career.

As for the price of gas and drilling....they can drill all they want. It won't decrease the demand or the price of oil. Americans are going to have to learn to conserve and not be spend thrifts before they just dump more oil on the market.

All of this does cause me to wonder how much I will be able to contribute to Scouting. My council is very small, about 10-15 miles wide x 50 miles long. It's 14 miles round trip to my troop meeting. I can't imagine someone involved in a council where they must drive long distances to be involved with any function. I have already pondered a transfer to save the commute and I'm watchful of the other activities that I volunteer for and the cost involved. I have no children, so it's not a major deal for me to withdraw to more local activities.

Many also include subcommittees for:

Camping

Advancement

Training

Cub Scouts

Venturing

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"My memory is that the early primary was "forced" by the Republicans in the legislature over the opposition of the Democrats. But it is the Florida Democrats who have to pay for the action."

That is correct. Florida's legislature is about 2/3 Republican. The legisltaure set the date of the primary. Florida also has a closed primary. The DNC stripped FL of all of it's delegates and the RNC stripped FL of half of it's delegates.

Personally, I think the primary system is outdated. It also sets up the fundraising to support only candidates that the lobbyists feel will win. With the technology available, they should be able to hold a general election and a runoff if needed.

FL gets the blame for the 2000 election. OH gets the blame for the 2004 election.

I still see both locally. "Call outs" seem to happen at the troop level, whereas, "tap outs" seem to happen at the camporee or summer camp level.

I was at the Southern Region CDDC last year when they annouced that adults on NYLT staff could earn ther 3rd or 4th bead as a proposal. While the 2 courses are similar, there is still a vast difference between the material presented.

The wood badge beads have so much historical background that I think National has overstepped. Wood badge beads are for wood badge.

I've cajoled my council for many years about how they micromanage wood badge and ignore NYLT/JLT/TLDC. Every Scout deserves a trained leader, but the primary goal, IMHO, is to help boys become leaders and good citizens. NYLT may be more effective in achieving that goal than a trained leader. I sincerely think that if National wants to recognize adults for contributing to the local Council NYLT training that they should put the effort into developing a separate system of recognition.

Awarding wood badges beads for NYLT service seems to be a slippery slope.(This message has been edited by Tokala)(This message has been edited by Tokala)

I seriously doubt that kids in 2008 would put on a beret, even if it was official uniform. Beret's aren't exactly "cool" any more.

I honestly don't recall anything that stood out as a memorable moment. It's been about 20 years, but it's not due to failing memory. I guess for me it was just another Scouting activity.

Congratulations! And, welcome to the best and most active region in the nation!

Eamonn..as for the music. Go to youtube and listen to some Flogging Molly. Trust me. :-)

As for history and change, I try to use the great experiences and adults that I enjoyed as a Scout in the 70's to illustrate how the values are still the same, even if the uniforms and advancement programs have changed. I've put stuff from the 70's & 80's into my troop program and NYLT and the Scouts thought it was fun and interesting. I didn't necessarily tell them that it was "old school", but presented it as something that might be challenging and fun.

My council uses a simple rule when hosting an event:

Budget to make somewhere around 10% for the Council. This applies to camporees, wood badge, NYLT, corssovers, day camp, et al. This rule helps keep zealous volunteers and professionals from padding budgets in an effort to seek favor with the Council. I'm sure that some push the limits and others try to make it break even. On the whole it's a fair way of conducting business for the Council and the particpants.

I don't see it as a problem. As long as no one has access to any powder or ammunition, it's strictly a highly accurate historical prop. My lodge uses Seminole clothing for ceremonies and for many years Nutiket carried a 50 caliber musket. I've seen many dancers carrying weapons at pow wows, but I've seen so many I don't think I could separate the BSA ones from the real ones.

Eamonn please take this in a constructive way...

You wrote:

"While I don't think the old course did a good job of teaching traditional Scouting skills. (It was never intended to do so.) "

I have been through Boy Scout wood badge and staffed 21st, I'd argue that Boy Scout wood badge taught & used Scout skills much more than 21st. Gone is the spliced belt, patrol method cooking, pioneering project, and orienteering. In it's place are more "conference room" type training experiences.

You also wrote

"While I have not been involved in the new youth courses that replaced JLTC, from what I have heard the new course is again a mini Wood Badge course. "

I have been a JLT and an NYLT Scoutmaster and I can assure that while the courses may seem similar, they are very different. While both use digital media to present some material and they share the leadership skills, the approach is completely different for the youth. The new NYLT seems to be a good blend of "old school Scouting" and digital media. There are many segments in NYLT that are not included in 21st century wood badge. Leadership and Scout skills are developed in segments such as the realistic first aid, geocache wide game, lunch planning exercise, and pioneering projects. I know of some NYLT courses that use the summer camp dining hall and run the patrols through the line. Many still do patrol cooking and that's the way that I'll always present the material. While the Blanchard and Covey seem out of place to present to the youth, I'll give it a second chance based on personal experience. For example, a Scout that participated in our NYLT course the summer of 2007 talked to me at one of our OA lodge weekends. He still carried his memory cue card that we gave him and engaged me in a discussion about the Leading/Teaching EDGE. The biggest problem with NYLT is the adults that try to run the course like it is a mini-wood badge. They're kids; they have to be dealt with differently. Staff development for NYLT is NOWHERE close to staff development for wood badge.

I hope your phase passes quickly. It's not really all that bad. Maybe volunteering to help staff NYLT will help you out of your funk?(This message has been edited by Tokala)

I've heard that a new uniform is on it's way. The only thing that I remember from the conversation is that the color-coded loops on the epaulettes will be history.

As for old uniforms remaining "official", that is true. You can wear old uniforms; however, the parts must be from the same time period. You can't mix the 70's uniform parts with the 80's onward, or vice versa.

Eamonn, you touch on a lot of subjects. I'd like to address a couple of them.

Every council had to start the 21st Century syllabus from scratch. They had to draw on people that had wood badge experience in order to create the same intensity or passion about delivering the experience. There's a lot more gained from these courses than just the material and skills in the syllabus. My council has run 4 courses since the introduction of the new syllabus. Out of 4 courses we now have a pool of potential staff and course directors to draw from to staff the next course. This has effectively eliminated the occasional lament from someone about the "old course".

Each time we run a new course, we find ways to ensure that we try to deliver the material in meaningful ways and have discussed what we feel is really meant by "inclusiveness", "diversity", and "interfaith". We also discuss if we do things "just because" and can we simplify what we do without sacrificing. In all fairness, I thought that the Scout's Own style of religious service offered a better basis to discuss diversity. Returning to the "Interfaith" service has made religion generic. In their attempts to not upset anyone, they removed an excellent way to teach about diversity.

We have had one person from Boy Scout wood badge surrender his beads and attend a 21st century course. He has completed his ticket and had the opportunity to learn some new material and meet new people. I originally called 21st Century wood badge, "Wood badge lite". It may not be as intense in certain ways, but it still accomplishes the goal of training leaders, team (patrol) formation through challenges, and inspired adults that go back to thier units and talk about how much fun they had and all the great people that they met.

I've often posed the question about how the standards set for Wood Badge for the 21st Century were set. Good trainers are being eliminated from the talent pool simply because they completed a different syllabus. Training skills aren't related to a book, but to the individual.

As one who completed Boy Scout Wood badge 20 years ago and staffing the 21st century courses, it was a difficult translation. It can be done, but it would be simpler if I had taken the course.

The 11 leadership skills are still valid methods; they're just not what the BSA is using to train adult leaders. I don't think that I would surrender my beads (and I staffed an old course) to take the new course just so I could be eligible for staff. There's other avenues available to help train leaders than Wood badge.

I don't see where a Council could force people to take training courses repeatedly; however, they do seem to be able to do what they want sometimes. The cost would be prohibitive for some volunteers and that could adversely effect all those numbers that the professionals get graded on for advancement.