theysawyoucomin'

Rob,

Great pictures!

Please respond to my personal post so I can forward the soda bottle rocket stuff to you.

Ps. Did you remember the fishing belt loops for the kids. You can't forget the bling bling

Keep up the good work! Don't forget to delegate

Bob,

You're right. I used epithets.

Look back at the thread about the SPL going to committee meetings. Merely a question.

During the committee meeting I referred to them as a cancer on the Troop that should be removed if it continued.

For evmori,

The parents of the vulgar boys will be called. The bylaws for the Troop are from 197sumthin'. They will be updated. I really didn't know Troops had bylaws.

Next time it happens the parents of the blessed little cherubs with have to come and get their creations, no matter the time or distance.

I have been a wolf bear and am now a WEEB leader.

I feel every kid needs a book. but if this system works for you so be it.

I used to tell my parents that if my wolf son ever said "dad I have nothing to do", Then he was instructed to get his Scout book and I dropped everything and we did a "scout suggested " that was really more a father/son thing but out of a nationally recognized-aged appropriate activity book. Of course our house is a mess and the lawn always needs mowing but I'll have a nice lawn when he's in college.

The handbooks are near and dear to me because I remember my days as a cub. Somthings in those books are timeless and have been there forever. How many boys in America make masks and pretend anymore? How many kids or parents even know what a crystal radio is? My boys(my Den ) know what a crystal radio is and they all had the opportunity to make one. When an 8 year old makes a redio that works it's magic. Not unlike when his grandfather made one in the 1940's.

No flame war here but to me the book is even more important than the uniform. Long after my Boy Scout Troop folded I read the manual from time to time.

And yes we really sign the book. We really read the story about mowgli and where the name Akela comes from.

Best of luck to you.

Robert--you got guts old man,

Thank you for your service to the organization.

Call a meeting of the parents and let them know

"theys a new sheriff in town".

Let them know in no uncertain terms that this pack runs on it's parent volunteers. You need committed folks in key billets.

Without Den leaders you are dead in the water(nautical term for "your engine isn't running)

Training, Training, Training.

Require that all billet holders do YPT online. and within one year be trained for their position.

Ask the local Scout Troop for a Den Chief for each Den . Some of those boys must have been Cubs.

Come up with a list of billets and let parents know that if Scouting is to continue on your town that they each need to do something on that list. Big or small you need them to do something.

Set up committees for PW derby,Blue and gold dinner, sunmmertime activities etc.

For short term assistants,Dig around the charter organization. rotary, Kiwanis VFW etc. See if there's any Grandpas or Grandmas, that were den leaders in their day, that might lend a hand as assistants.

Your subordinate leaders are key. Make the Den Leaders know that you are in this for the long haul.With out dens you got no pack.

See if District will help you by having training very close to your town.Then all go together.

For now keep the activities small and simple. Don't make many promises but require that your staff and you keep the promises you make.

Final suggestion ask other other Scouters at roundtable if they would help run and train one activty. If there's a flood, Scouters will usually come to help. It looks like you've had quite a bit of rain in your pack.

If you were in Castleton NY I could help you a lot more.

I've never been to Casselton ND.

Bob,

Usually I have you on squelch, however, I got curious and read you post. Your experience is vast and I am sure you worked hard to earn it. I have been on the receiving end of some of you comments and thought they voilated the "courteous" point of the scout law.

All that being said, I meant to paint a word picture using metphors. If my words were harsh in describing three knuckleheads I apoligize to All. I understand that God made all children. He also gave us free choice.

EagleDad and Korea Scouter,

This is my first time on the committee where we had "an incident". We will discuss it on Sunday evening. I came here for wise anonymous consel prior to the meeting. I would agree parents need to know, underscore. I would also concur that the family has them for the balance of their time. Some Good , Some bad.

Our society blames teachers for their lack of ability, yet how many of those same parents don't read to their children and at infancy don't begin to label things as simple as groceries. Don't anybody write to me and say "I read to my kid and he's one of the brightest in his class. Of course hie is, you did your job well and they love to be read to.

I agree with you both-It's hard to straighten out the tree when it's been growing bent for so long.

Again All thank you for your replies, you taught me something. And I like the Sienfeld banter proves you all have a sense of humor. Maybe we should make the 3 of them watch Elaine dance at the Christmas Party. Or search for the car in the parking garage while they watch their fish die.

To All,

Thank you for your replies and your counsel. When a well behaved boy quits because of the actions of an ill mannered boy he is letting those who are inferior to him(by thought, word and deed) shape his destiny.

Totally unacceptable.

We have a scout named Jerry Sienfeld(not really). Well last year old Jerry was caught stealing. Recently he had to be told repeatedly not to put his hands on other people. As he was walking away from the ASM he called the ASM a jerk.

On a recent camporee George(not real name) and Kramer(AGAIN NOT REAL NAME)were having an argument long after lights out yelling between tents. George exclaimed "You $uck". Kramer then explained how he had been doing something with George's mother "all night long".

All totally unsat behavior.

As a Webelos II leader I am on the Troop Committee and I don't like what I see. There's a vacant C.O. that already owns a Troop flag. It's looking quite inviting.

My question is, How much foul language and bad behavior is a SM to put up with before throwing the garbage overboard. Some of the well behaved kids are beginning to leave. Do we try to save the cr@p of the crop only to lose the cream?

I completed my ticket as a Den Leader.

My first choice did not happen due to the foriegn scout backing out on his presentation. But here goes...

The Cub Scouts in our Pack cannot go to the world Jamboree. However, much of the world comes to us through business, university, medical etc. I wanted to have a person from a foreign country come and speak at a Pack meeting with his or her old uniform, handbook, etc. to show the boys that scouting is indeed worldwide. I had an RPI student from Malaysia all set to go but he backed out on me and the service fraternity could not supply another person, time was fading so I thought it unattainable after the 30 or so members of the frat would not step forward.

So even though I thought it was an outstanding idea it had to be dropped for...

We had a family movie night for the Pack early in the school year and showed "Follow Me Boys". Let's not go down the GSS voilations road. It was simply a silly Walt Disney movie about a fantasy town. It helped some with recruiting(not as much as I had hoped it would) but the kids loved it admission was 50 cents and all concession stuff was sold at just about cost.. We donated the proceeds(about 70 bucks ) to the Worldwide Friendship Fund and explained to the boys want that fund does and how it helps out. We showed them the certificate and at my beading it was mentioned again in front of the boys how they helped people.

For another idea, my Cubmaster took the same course as me,and here's what he did.

He generated an online survey (handouts also) for parents to communicate how well they thought the Pack was acheiving the goals of Scouting. People were generally satisfied.

Think attainable........but it should be someting you feel strongly about.

a good ol' owl too!

The proudest part of my Wood Badge ceremony was thanking the people who got me there. Flowers for my wife and my mother. My old cubmaster from 30 years ago is now our COR. My mom was my assistant wolf den leader. I invited a husband/ wife team --- Scoutmaster/ bear den leader. They are reportedly one of the only silver beaver /silver fawn couples in existance.They are older and don't drive at night so they missed. I also wanted to thank those on the committee that helped me accomplish my goals or let me run with my goals as unit activities. I did Wood Badge as a den leader so I may have a very limited view but it seems to me that the ticket goals are a little more dear to the frontline folks than they seem to folks higher up the unit ladder(flame on! just my opinion and limited observation , there I said it twice)

Sounds like the troop guide gave you some kind of a run around.

I didn't think this belonged under the Camping and High Adventure Forum

This weekend our Pack took a trip from Upstate NY to Boston. About half went out Friday night to Camp Sayre (Minuteman Council)and did Pack Camping. We were treated very well by the camp staff and had a great overnight. We drove to the Braintree stop on the MBTA and saw Old Ironsides. The other half of the Cub Pack rode the bus from home that morning and met up there. We then took the water taxi(MBTA $1.50 for parents $.60 for boys) through the harbor to the Boston Aquarium. What a place.

If you are stumped for and overnight this was a great trip.

And one more...

Last year we took the boys to Cooperstown(Farmer Museum, MLB hall of fame) we overnighted at Camp Henderson and had a great time.

I write this because both Camps treated us great and the boys had a lot of fun.

5'10" currently 260

start of Wood Badge 278 August 2003

July 04 301 lbs gross tonnage

Atkins and some exercise. Still watching carbs running up to two miles twice a week.

still fighting the battle. 5 gallons of water is about 41 lbs. I lift a five gallon pail of water when I need motivation.

Take care of yourself! lose some weight!

We had the same problem

Start with the dollar store. They are everywhere aren't they? They have hammers and six tipped screw drivers for a dollar each. For twenty bucks you have enough to outfit a large den.

MOST IMPORTANT THEY HAVE SAFETY GLASSES WHICH PARENTS SHOULD BUY A PERSONAL PAIR FOR EACH KID. I lovethePARENTS THAT WON'T SPEND ONE DOLLAR ON THEIR KIDS WHILE THEY SMOKE CIGARETTES AT $5 PER PACK.

Approach the local capenters union about a small donation, for $100 you can get a brace and some bits so that the kids can drill their own holes.

Place an add in the local paper asking for tools. Maybe some widow that has just can't bear to part with their husband's tools at a garage sale had three sons that moved away (who were scouts) would think that was a great thing do do with her spouse's tools(I mean this with the greatest amount of taste)

Face it weirderthings have happened.

Have a fundraiser specifically for the "pack tool chest" explaining that the the only exposure some kids get to building and working with hand tools is at scouts and you'd like to make sure that this becomes a legacy in your Pack.

Find a Wood Badge candidate and tell him that it would make a great long lasting goal for him to do. He'll find a way!

I apoligize in advance for my poor typing.

Wow,

Thank you all for the timely reply.

I do agree that a SPL could be asked to leave if the subject of camperships comes up. Another families finances are never another boys' business

Concerning other matters would the avarage SPL be trusted to be told "what you hear here stays here".

If BSA guidelines say it is not his place, well that's good enough for me. I would like to read chapter and verse where he is prohibited. I would follow that guidance.

Thank you all again for the lively discussion. See what happens when they let den leaders attend Wood Badge before they have been on the Troop Committee for a couple of years.

Is there any good reason the SPL should not attend the Troop Committee meeting?

More important what do you do in your Troop?

Birch Log (free from Eagle Scout friend that owns a tree service)

Ax from harbor freight $8

Sheet Cake with ax and log symbol(from Sam's Club) $18

Flowers for mother and wife $20

Getting Beaded last night in front of the Pack--priceless

The Course director reviewed the ticket Items (3 directly impacted the boys and they were fun activities)

The boys had a stake in the ceremony.

My old Cubmaster from 34 years ago was there. He is now the COR for Kwanis Club, and was there to receive the Charter from Council.

Boys thought the Ax in the log was cool. They really liked the cake.

Mike have your beading where you want, because for one time, especially at your beading IT can be about you.

Best of luck!

sorry for the triple posting. computer was acting up

I'll get mine at a pack mtg on the 29th.

Yesterday I got the birch log.

We will keep it short I'm going to ask the course director to go through my goals one at a time and ask which cubs, by show of hands, participated in each of the goals to bring it home to them. When you are ten it's still ALL about you.

I also think that they'll like the axe in the log.

Then we'll have cake. who doesn't want cake?

I would also like to hear from others.

I'll get mine at a pack mtg on the 29th.

Yesterday I got the birch log.

We will keep it short I'm going to ask the course director to go through my goals one at a time and ask which cubs, by show of hands, participated in each of the goals to bring it home to them. When you are ten it's still ALL about you.

I also think that they'll like the axe in the log.

Then we'll have cake. who doesn't want cake?

I would also like to hear from others.

I'll get mine at a pack mtg on the 29th.

Yesterday I got the birch log.

We will keep it short I'm going to ask the course director to go through my goals one at a time and ask which cubsby show of hands participated in each of the goals to bring it home to them. When you are ten it's still ALL about you.

I also think that they'll like the axe in the log.

Then we'll have cake. who doesn't want cake?

I would also like to hear from others.

Fred,

As I said it was just my opinion. One does not have to be a Webelos Den Leader and have been with the boys since tiger or wolf days, however, now that the new tour permit requires it, I would say that if your kids have been in Cub Scouting for 3 years and you have not had them overnight yet you would be shorting them somewhat.(boy, that's a run on sentence)

Usually the Webelos den leader is the senior den leader in the Pack. Being the senior den leader don't you think he/she could set the example and get this training?

Remember we are on the wood badge forum here. Eight hours more and a nice foil meal insn't going to kill anybody. And for those that aren't up to speed, one more foil meal will give them more confidence to arrange an overnight for the den or a family campout for the Pack.

Ask 100 young toothless young cub Scouts why they joined, 75 of them will say "camping".

If you bring boys to the baseball Hall of Fame, is it best to drive an 1 1/2hrs. that morning? What about camping overnight at Camp Henderson, a campfire, a musty tent, a good breakfast and something to remember. All for $1 per boy camping fee and the cost of a few eggs and 5 slices of bacon.

Let's give them what is within our means and keep them scouting.

Again just my opinion. Nobody in Irving is going to listen anyway.

Our Pack has overnighted to Ft. Ticonderoga, Cooperstown Hall of Fame and next month Boston, Uss Constitiution, Aquarium, and Museum. I'm quite proud of that record.

A simple overnight, campfire, marshmellows, the pie iron, popcorn over a fire,sleeping in a sleeping bag with a parent in your tent beside them is what memories are made of.

Not looking to start a flame war here but tell me if you think I'm wrong.

I've Watched this thread for a couple of days, I though I'd add my nickel to the collection plate.

I took Baloo three years ago and had an OK time. I learned that the Trial Lawyers are more damaging to America than Al Queda(or however you spell that band of murdering thugs who don't rate the protection due real soldiers). When I took the course I was told that there would soon be a box to check on the Tour permit asking what person on the Pack Camping trip was Baloo trained. Similar to Climb on, SSD, and Safety afloat.

Fast forward three years and there's NO box to check.

Baloo stresses that if you are taking a Pack of Cubs on an overnight, only with a parent, that you'd better make darn sure that they have a good time. A bad time can wreck 'em for life. Baloo stresses protecting BSA much like YPT. For example the only person that can sleep in the same tent with a cub is Legal guardian or biological parent. Well, what about single mother sends her father(cub's grandpa, and probably the only "father" the lad has ever known) according to OUR BALOO INSTRUCTOR'S TEACHING BSA does not allow this. Let's recap Mrs. Jones sends Johnny to fulfill the "promise of Scouting" by "sleeping out" on the park lawn next to a serene pond chocked full of hungry Bluegills and perch and his "papaw" can't sleep in the same tent with him? This is what we were told.

Baloo stresses planning which is sorely needed and stresses building a program for scheduling. both very important.

WLOT was also worthwile but totally exclusive of Baloo. It stessed age appropriate camping. Both of these courses should be offered as many times as New leader essentials is offered. WLOT would give an inexperience leader the confidendence to talk the boys out overnight.

In my humble opinion BOTH of the courses should be a requirement for the WEBELOS den leader knot. They are not some add on or advanced course. They keep the outing in Scouting. As a former Marine who spent nearly four years in an infantry unit and 9 years of reserve time in an infantry company. twice above the Arctic Circle and much time in the desert I think there are few people who have slept outdoors more than I have. Both courses taught me how to make it more fun for the boys which is really the "mission".

Both courses are only one day apiece. Every Den Leader in America should ask, "Aren't your boys worth it?"

YES, ABSOLUTELY

Now the fun begins.

Can you tell us what your goals are?

Congrats on finishing the second weekend. Did you have nice weather?

When the Staff ate with us the second weekend we had to go and get them from a central place. Each Patrol had to guess who was dining with them. The Clue might be something like; a beaver that carries a staff, has gray hair and works with airplanes. Well you had to pay attention to what verse of the Gilwell song they sang and then all the rest of the info was in the Gilwell gazette. Once we were so baffled that we just waited until they were all picked up except ours.

It was a good riddle each meal.

Has anybody ever been there?

Please offer a review if you have.

Thank you

You stated that your second weekend menu was planned by others and carried out by the patrol?

Just asking because my experience was different.

The patrol planned the menu. the patrol shopped with money from the course(part of the fee for the course)

Of course we blew the budget and had to chip in more at the end.

Good luck with your ticket. I finished mine with 7 days left.