theysawyoucomin'

Some of Baloo is filled with many DONT"S.

but all something we must hear as keepers of the liability that Scouts needs to make sure we don't run afoul of.(wow what horrible grammar)

One other thing it stesses well is that a Cub must have fun his first time out or you can sour him on camping for a long time to come.

I liked the suggestion that you get some parents to go.

Two parents in each den would be ideal. Then they could be the "cops" on what the limits are.

IMHO Baloo should be a required part of earning the coveted trained pattch for leaders and Cubmasters.

This may cushion the blow.

As an adult leader you are allowed to deduct the travel portion of your involvement in Scouting from your Federal income taxes.

You are giving your time, they require adult supervision.

Please consult the IRS before trying this but I have been told by more than one leader that they do this.

It won't make $2600 any easier to come up with but it could help on the back end.

My son and I completed the "God and me" workbook together after speaking to our Methodist pastor.

The best part of the program was my son and I discussed our faith with an intensity that would not have happened without the course. I'm not the greatest presenter of ideas to my children and it would not have worked if I said, "Comm'ere son let's talk about God".

After completing the work we sat down with our Pastor (boy wore his uniform) and showed him the games we made, discussed the topics and bible passages. Pastor signed off and we got the medal from P.R.A.Y.

We are talking about doing the same for 5th grade.

Don't forget to get the parents guide and work it along with your son. Telling your child your beliefs strengthens his beliefs.

The workbooks are age appropriate. Our council store carries "major" faiths.

Good luck, it is a worthwile program. Many boys ask my son about the knot and a couple have taken up the challenge. As somebody here said, it is somewhat involved but certainly not impossible.

I was hoping a Powderhorn graduate would answer this, anybody out there?

In NE-III-162 we had a person that was driven 400 yards to class every time and even had a heart attack on the final day. The staff there accomodated him.

My wife had a student receive his Eagle on Saturday night. The Wood Badger was there as a district rep.

Like others said I'm sure they will accomomdate as much as is physically possible.

I forgot Baloo.

We have one WEEB II leader "me" trained

one WEEB I leader trained

and Cubmaster trained. 3 Baloo's in one pack is adequate but I wish the den leaders would all step up.

Our council needs to step up as it is not being offered at all this year and is now on the tour permit.

I do not know this answer myself to 100% accuracy.

On the pack comittee

4 of 6 den leaders are trained. in addition one Den Ldr is WB trained?

Cubmaster is trained and going to WB in a month.

Scout troop (really unkown but a guess)

Scoutmaster- WB, trained for Scoutmaster.

ASM's only one of about 4 is trained in both indoor and outdoor portion.

Rest of comittee hasn't attended TCC and one is WB trained.

Does your unit reflect this? Are we about average?

Does it help to be more "boy led" if your committee is trained? Please be specific.

What are some advantages?

Have you recently upgraded training levels??

Does anybody's Chartered org require training? Is it within their scope to ask for 100% trained adults?

Have your committee meetings become more efficient?

Thank you in advance for any replies.

Dug,

I feel bad that your boys had to struggle with these beasts.

For the historical record there was no death march at Tarawa. The 'Corps lost more devil dogs in 76 hours than at any other time in history. The Japanese commander stated, "it will take a million Marines a thousand years to take this island." 76 hours after the first heroes waded ashore said commander was dead, and so were a bunch of Marines.

Bataan, earlier in the war had a death march.

I'm scheduled for two Thursday nights in a row in October. What does this include?

I forwarded a link to this discussion to the course director. Did you call the council office? How far is it to drive?

Twin rivers phone # is 518 869 6436

Good luck CNY

CNY SCouter,

Call Twin Rivers Council office in Albany, NY.

I personally know they have enough for a course but I don't think it is closed.

I hope you live this side of Rochester 'cause the Empire State is a long sucker.

WB is going to be held at Camp Wakpominee. It is by Lake George. near a newly burst dam! It's a nice place. The course director is a great lady. I taught her how to make ice cream in two ziplock bags. Call Today it begins in August. Bring a buddy to car pool!

Good luck

Ooops!

Forgot two things.

Each boy can only take one peice of candy off each plate.When we did this as a den I had a work sheet that asked them to match the bearing with the type of candy.

The proper way to hold a compass is very important. Make sure their "noses" point the same way as the direction of travel arrow does. I tell them hold the plastic base to your chest and keep your head and eyes straight forward.

We just did this and the kids had a great time.

Cracker Barrel has "Silva " Type compasses for 3.99 each.

Have every boy stand in a group explain to them that a compass doesn't show where to go. It only shows a constant northerly direction. Show them a big declination map. Explain that a large chunk or magnetic ore is in Canada, and that's what makes the compass point that way.

Years later when somebody further explain declination they will have already the cause once.

Ask them to hold the compass and slowly rotate. "Hey Scouts did you notice the compass always pionts in relatively the same direction? Columbus and early explorers had little more than this to sail around the world."

Show them how to shoot an azimuth, or take a bearing. Start out with the cardinal points first. Once everybody is pionting in the same direction. have them shoot an azimuth of 288 degress(or whatever). Once they can do this the fun really starts.

With chalk on pavement or signs that won't blow away, write 10 bearings. Ask each boy to follow those bearnings. We did this in a large field. At the edge of the field was a plate of candy lying within that bearing.

Pretty soon this becomes a self directed activity.

All ranks could do this. My Webelos helped the kindergarten kids that will be Tigers in the fall. All were able to play this game.

Go to the library and get Bjorn Kjellstrom"S book "Be expert with Map and Compass". Older versions of the book have a cartoon of a man riding on a magic carpet. he sticks his head through the carpet and what he sees is exactly what the map shows. This really helps when you talk about orienting the map to match the ground. If you can have a map of where you activity is held. Have them lay the compass along themap north arrow and rotate the map until the compass lines up with the map north arrow and huzzah! you have the map matching the ground.

Now you have two activties.

Add Bobwhites map of the town and you have enough for the belt loop. The requirement says "neighborhood" (i think) but the twon is even better because everybody is included.

The kids really liked finding the candy. I wonder if boy scouts would like to find watermelon on a campout that way?

I never questioned why.

Could be that during you service project you work. We used pick and shovel for about an hour. We did the ground portion of the COPE course.

One Bobwhite from NE-111-162 had a heart attack on the second Sunday morning. He got to ride in an ambulance and was beaded about 10 months later.

Plus we're all gettin' old! Growing old ain't fer sissies

Have fun in your cours and keep us posted on your course.

I don't know who the comment about letting the Cub's decide who goes in what den was directed at so I will clarify my statement.

At no time did I say let the boys decide. I did say let the boys know what is going on. Make sure they know it's not because "Mr. John" didn't like me. Explain to them "you will have more fun and complete more projects if the teams are smaller"

As far as knowing who gets along with whom, you have had some of them for a year. You know those boys well. Talk to the parents, to decide which boys already play together. I agree with BOb, the boys don't form up dens, neither do the parents. Take in suggestions and input whether asked for or passively observed and make those dens smaller.

Keep all the good kids yourself!

No really, be up front with the Scouts. Tell them why changes are being made.

Each of the dens should have some "leadership challenges"(aka trouble). Make sure each boy has a buddy.

divide up the kids that don't get along with each other.

Be fair to the new den leaders. Remember they are now part of the team.

Basically love the kids you wind up with, because after three years no matter how bad some of them are you going to find some good in each one of them and they will wind up being your sons!

Take the kids you got and their parents on an overnight as soon as you are able. Family Camping each lad has a parent or somebody who is responsible for him. Have a great time!

John,

I had 13 boys in my den.

I had a very good assistant den leader. We took training together. We "camped" with the boys outside in summer and inside in January about 90 miles from where the winter Olympics was held. We went to Baloo, WLOT, DL Training, Did YPT went to Pow wow. Heck I even got Wood Badge Beads.

Not braggin' , just explaining my perspective.

DO NOT have that may kids in your Den!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You CANNOT give each kid the time and most importantly the patience each boy deserves.

You will be overwhelmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You will have some medicated kids, heck it seems as though 25% are medicated and another 25% ought to be.

Split those kids into 3 dens and tell some of the mommies and daddies this ain't child care.

It may sound harsh. But the 6 or 8 you keep deserve that. Your own son deserves that.

Say it aloud:

"My son deserves better than that for his Cub Scouting experience"

Do not make the same mistake I made. I have 9 after 3 years and it's still about 2 too many.

I understand we should tell no young boy NO, but the parents must step up.

If you want great plans for soda bottle water rockets PM me. I'll help you out.

Thank you for your service to Scouting and our Country.

Art Linkletter then Bill Cosby

Now that the school year is over and we can all take a breath, what is the cutest, silliest, most outlandish things you ever heard a young cub say?

When earning the Wildlife Conservation pin with some "bobcatted" Tigers we had to make a collage of different vertabrates. When I asked the boys what a collage was one said, "It's a tiny little house in the forest(cottage)

Another said, "It's when two cars smash into each other!"

(collision)

I am sure you all have better ones than that.

I always equate the GOOFBALL with Gomer Pyle, USMC.

- can't keep track of gear

- never PREPARED for his next breath let alone anything else

-couldn't lead a starving dog to meat packing plant

- we are lucky he wipes himself

Good natured lad with best efforts he will never be a General and will drive his supervisor to have a GRABBER about the age of 55 from stress.

Autism seems a different discussion. Sometimes parents don't help with matters by not finding help. We should be leading the political fight to help these boys. One mother whose son has autism(most probably caused by heavy metal metabolic problems) told me that 1 in 166 boys in America has some level of Autism. That is a lot of boys. If it was AIDS it would be in the Media morning noon and night. Same if it was breast cancer.

Why here in America? Mercury preservatives in innoculation????

We couldn't kiss a fish that had as much mercury as our kids were given in some vaccines. As the leading boys organization why aren't we asking more questions about this? Some of these kids will never leave home. Some of these kids are amazingly intelligent at certain things, sometimes music. "Rainman" was an entertaining movie about a sad subject---it did not do justice to those with problems.

Rainman did not have autism but the movie still did not do justice to those folks.

Emotional problems can be masked by intelligence.

I personally had two Scouts that had some undiagnosed problems with violent tendencies. What do we do when they are 6' 4" and can't control themselves?

On the Kuwait\Saudi border my Lt. went out at night to relieve himself in the sand. He walked 37 steps from his hole and took a half an hour to find his way back. The next morning we retraced his footprints in the sand. He was a superb Marine Officer.

Another not so great Corporal did the same thing and became so lost he just laid down and went to sleep and spent a shivering night in the desert less than 80 yards from his hole. His buddies thought there was a dead body beyond the perimeter.

I personally walked on top of a shelter half set flush with the sand---the occupants were not happy!!!!

Man it was dark 80 miles from nowhere with zero moon illumination!

The past dicussion of Jerry, George and Cramer led to a committe member submitting the following:

My Personal Viewpoint Ted Jones(obvious psudonym)

Mandatory Meeting Attendance

Other Scout troops in the Capital Region have instituted or are considering a 50% mandatory attendance policy. Before any Scout will be considered for advancement (including Eagle), he must be present for half of the possible meetings in a running period ending on his date of review. For example, with Troop 1234 meeting two times per month, this would be 4 meetings spread over or concentrated in 4 months. Certainly, any Scout can arrange their schedule to meet this requirement. This also places the responsibility of troop participation in the hands of the Scout. If the Scout wants to advance, he must be an active and contributing part of the troop.

Some Scouts may not be anxious to step up to this schedule, flexible though it may be. For a serious young man seeking to be recognized by promotion, it would seem to be a trivial requirement.

Expectations of Older Scouts (especially Eagle candidates)

Younger boys and newer Scouts may merit certain consideration for their behavior based on their age and/or experience. This consideration does not apply to the older Scouts. Experienced Scouts must be held to a higher standard (the Oath?). It must be made clear to the older boys that, like it or not, they are the role models for the troop. The adults are probably considered to be a separate sub-species by most of the Scouts. This places the older boys in the role of leaders as to how a Scout should behave, treat his fellow troop members, and interact with the adult leadership.

Should: Listen while adults/other Scouts are speaking

Demonstrate willingness to help

Support Patrol leaders and adult supervision (without reluctance or attitude)

Should Not: Ignore younger troop members

Isolate themselves during troop activities/events

Speak to the younger/other Scouts with anything other than a friendly tone of voice

Leadership is by exampleWhat a great way for potential Eagle Scouts to demonstrate their skills, maturity, and patience by working with all of their fellow troop members.

Discipline in Ranks

The BSA is not a paramilitary organization. However, it is an organization that relies on structure and self-discipline. One of the strongest skills a young man must learn is to recognize when to keep his mouth shut and eyes forward. At every Scout gathering, other troops with both younger and older boys have demonstrated (at opening/closing ceremonies, council fires, award presentations, etc.) that they can listen quietly without talking to boy next to them, digging in the dirt, or swiveling their heads to look at everything other than what deserves their attention. This lack of focus is not demonstrated by other troops and should not be tolerated in Troop 1234 !

Inappropriate Behavior and Resulting Consequences

All Scouts should be made aware that serious violations of Scouting ethics and standards of behavior will be remembered and will result in consequences fitting the offense, up to and including being banned from outings or possibly being invited to leave the Troop.

Continued..

Expectations for Summer Camp

Perhaps there should be a mandatory meeting for all Scouts and at least one parent/guardian prior to summer camp. The younger/newer Scouts will learn what the week has in store for them. The following reminders would be for every camper:

Order: Scouts will be expected to listen to and respect the patrol leaders and adult supervision. Instructions, whether from a patrol leader or an adult, should merely serve to let the Scouts know that it is time to do what they already recognize needs to be done then get it done.

Attitude: If a Scout is going to act sullen or resentful, or act as if he would rather be somewhere else go somewhere else. Home is a cell phone call away. This kind of attitude drags down everyone unfortunate enough to be around the offender. A positive can-do, will-do attitude is a huge part of the Scouting experience and will make nearly any experience a positive one. It can also be contagious!

Behavior: Sloth Camp is a time of activity, opportunity, physical exertion and fun. Certainly a break or period of downtime during the day is earned by all Scouts. However, if your idea of camping or participation is staying in your tent every possible moment, camping outings are not your best choice.

Bullying While a certain amount or intensity of physical horseplay is healthy, no Scout should be intimidated by any fellow Troop member. The adult supervision will take appropriate action to squash this breach of respect - see Inappropriate Behavior.

Language - Many of the Scouts are at an age where they are experimenting with cursing, derogatory language and trading amazingly degrading insults. When choosing his language at any Scouting gathering/event, a Scout should apply the parent rule: Dont let any words pass your lips that you wouldnt say directly to your parent(s). Coarse language will be rewarded see Inappropriate Behavior.

Snacks/Food All food/soda brought by Scouts to a Scouting event shall become community property and will be stored in the chuckbox for all to enjoy at the appropriate time and location. No personal stashes beyond what will fit in ones pocket will be permitted. No eating will be allowed in the tents at any time. Campers will eat together and snack together in a communal area. Any Scout with special food restrictions may leave their groceries with an adult for safe keeping.

Following this policy will extend the life of the tents and draw the Scouts together for a common purpose.

Lights Out: Exactly what it says. No talking (especially between tents) and no leaving your tents. A fifteen minute notice for those who cant seem to keep track of time leaves ample opportunity to get themselves and their gear squared away for the night.

Personal Hygiene: Scout is Clean This does not mean bringing clean clothes and underwear to use as a pillow while wearing a single set of clothes for the entire week. Outfits (from the skin out) should be changed at least twice during the week. One shower or swim (mid-week?) should be mandatory. Preparation for lights out shall include brushing teeth and washing face and hands.

Camp Cleanliness: Trash - The great outdoors does not mean a trash bin with no walls. If you drop something, pick it up. If you see someone drop something, remind them to pick it up. If you see something on the ground, pick it up. Calling something biodegradable (food or paper) does not magically convert it from trash to fertilizer put it in the trashbag!

Clean Hands - Before handling or preparing food WASH YOUR HANDS. Although every Scout has heard this a million times, the dreaded Camp Amnesia and my hands arent that dirty prevails at outings.

Clean Up After every meal, all Scouts should be required to remain at the dining area until the area is clean all pots, pans griddles, etc. are washed and put away. This should encourage the Patrol cleaning up to shake a leg Any Scout that wants to leave earlier can feel free to pitch in to speed things up!

Are 12 thru 15 years old really this whacked???????

Here was my reply:

Having only observed the younger Scouts on one trip I don't have much to draw from.

However, as a parent of a future member I found nothing in the "rant" out of line with:

----the 12 points of the Scout Law

----common sense personal/unit hygine necessary to curb disease in the field

------manners needed to function in polite society

----things I'd have hoped I taught my kids to do from the age of 10

Kudos to Ted....you should rant more often.

The only "rule" I would add is that the Scouts treat unit property as they would property that belongs to them(after all it does)

Another general though:

Not being a military organization the Troop still counts on it's small unit leaders (in businessese that's middle management) - here Patrol leaders, APL and ASPL to carry out and "enforce" policies. Just as a Corporal or Sargeant says "put your helmet on it could save you life- ----change you socks or you'll get blisters", the Troop's Scout leadership needs to remind their charges that an appointment with a wash cloth is required. Have we told the PL's how the Committee or the Scoutmaster will back them if Toby Tenderfoot doesn't want to scrub pots when it is his turn.

If a Scout can't lead, should he hold a billet? Many fine soldiers and dependable Marines never become leaders. Some of the best sales reps don't go into management. Not all baseball players are team Captains.

All Scouts are supposed to have a chance at leadership but are we putting some in charge who haven't developed and cannot police themselves? What should be the criteria for being asked to give up a leadership position?

"Popularity" election of leaders almost lost the Civil War for the Union. How do we make sure those elected by their peers are ready to aid in the delivery of a good program?

Am I asking for too much?

If you could get though WAR and PEACE above does anybody have any other comments.

A wise old man said, "longest journey begin with first step."

After many nights in the infantry in the Union Street Marble Club I used a big black trash bag and rolled the end and tucked it underneath. Very light very dry. Norway, N. Carolina., Saudi Arabia, and everywhere in between

There is simply no room in a shelter half for a flack jacket, helment, a pack your "hooch" mate and you..

fuzzy and hunt,

I am assuming you read the entire thread. The young men involved never heard me use the words that were typed. Bobwhite had a concern about how I described the boys on this forum.

Thank you Fred.

Seem like BSA would have spred the word a little better about this topic.

This is surely a heritage issue. I wonder if a wood badger could use it for diversity when researching the "boys" that were lost.

Fred can you paste the reg here?

Thank you

This is not a patrol method question, I just figured most Boy Scout leaders hang here.

Does anybody here have a troop Flag with gold stars signifying those that were boys in the Troop then subsequently gave their lives in national service. Our Troop has 5 from WW2 and one from Vietnam. We are sewing the stars on now.