SMT376Richmond KY

Thanks all for you encouragement. I didn't put all the details in cause I really didn't want a long post but for brevatity the potty was at about a 60 degree angle and on top of the ridge about 1000 yards away so quick action was warranted before it tumbled with boy inside.

I spoke with both parents on our return and the older boys parent called me prior to last nights meeting said he wasn't coming due to illness (he did get sick the last night of the camp out). Three including my own were out of school yesterday and thus not at the meeting last night. The mom I spoke with last night said she was concerned that her lil lad didn't seem to be enjoying Scouts like he use to. I asked her why since last weeks SM minute I asked each why they liked Scouting and what they got out of it. This lad said it was fun and he hoped to make Eagle. She said he didn't tell her any reason. I told her he was at an age where he will be tempted to stray from the right path but if he stays focused and follows the Scout oath and law he will do alright. She said he would be back and thanked me for correcting him. She said he's feeling really low. I told her that was probably because he knows he did something he isn't very proud of and that I told both boys how disappointed I was in their behavior. This lad especially since he was a Troop leader and should be setting the right example especially in front of a new Tenderfoot.

Anyhow we had two scouts the offending tenderfoot and the second class with the smart mouth that said he was leaving. They both practiced fire building and actually had a good meeting with only two scouts. The young tender foot I took aside for a SM confernce and reflected and help him see that not only was the potty a cruel joke but unsafe as well. He appologized to me but I told I'm not the one he needs to appologize too. That if he thinks about it he know the ones he should appologize too.

Thanks again folks for the help.

OK asking advice once again. Just returned from a civil war renanctment camp out. Part of which included work on American Heritage MB. Our older scouts(13 were a young Troop) twas obvious to me and the two parents that came with us (one a former district unit commissioner)that these "veteran" scouts planned on a relaxing weekend since they had to be reminded that wood and water were needed items if they wished to stay warm, drink, and cook. Not to mention that attendance at the prescribed functions were required in order to receive the MB.

Well to make a long story short one decided that smarting off and back talking to the SM was a new part of the Scout law so in doing so volunteered to stay back at camp and work on camp beutification project with the two dads while the other 6 boys joined another Troop along with the SM so two deep leadership would be assured (or course about 200 scouts and scouters in the same hike all single file so YPT was maintained). This lad had a change of heart as the former DUC put it after 30 minutes of camp project so he rejoined the unit and participated.

The other soon to be 13 YO decided it would be fun to lock one of our new 11 YO scouts in the porta potty and rock it back and forth. This was on day 3 of a weekend outing with over 500 scouts attending so you can imagine the smell. Well when I looked up and saw this across the field I immediately but a halt to it since the john was about to tip over. Called the offending scouts back to camp only to discover it was one of of ASM's boys and our former SPL who last month reach the term limit and was voted QM instead by his Troop mates. I asked both it if was friendly, courteous or kind to be doing that to a new boy not the mention it could be considered hazing and thus result in revocation of their memberships etc. etc. that I did not want to or even hear of such unscout like behavior from both of them. The new boy was ok he said he wasn't scared and was glad I got them to stop. I asked if anyone else had similar occurances and was told these two lads had done it to one of the older boys the previous night. Both parents were infomred upon our return yesterday.

After these two lads left the pick up area three younger boys our new SPL included informed us that 13YO A and B have told them that they are quiting the Troo to join another Troop in town as I'm too strict. The newest boy said "too strict" for you just made us work!

So how do you wise SM handle situations like these I'm sure you've all had them. This was the first outing for our new SPL who is 12 and FC (fc first year you know). He did a good job in that unlike his predicessor he actually attempted to rally the boys and get jobs done. We simply backed him up when the guys wouldn't do anything.

This is sort of on the same line. New SPL last night running the first truly run boy led meeting. He's the Troop's only first class (one year old Troop)he planned to show the one Second Class who is a PL and the Tenderfoots working on Second round and square lashinigs. He asked per his plan that the SM instruct the new recruit attending his first meeting. New SPL had his first test from the Second class PL in that this SC who thinks he knows everything but usually doesn't when tested. Shouted out "now stupid your doing it wrong." and the new SPL told him "no It's right just sit down and let me do it." As their voices rose the SM came by to ascertain the problem. The PL said to the SPL who said you were boss. Of course the new SPL wasn't quick on the draw and missed a golden opportunity and shrunk in intimidation. The SM looked at the starting clove hitch the boys were discussing and it was indeed correct especially for a left handed SPL. To which the SM informed the PL that the knot was indeed correct for someone left handed. Took the PL aside and asked him to control himself that the SPL is in charge and that the Troop elected him. To which this lad said "well I didn't." To which the SM responed "did all of your patrol members put you in charge of the patrol?" The boy was dumbfounded.

At post meeting debriefing the new SPL was asked about the incident. He stated "he just wouldn't listen to me. Kept saying I didn't know what I was doing and I did." SM told him that initially some of the older boys will pull similar tactics with him as their leader and shared the respons to make when asked "who made you boss?" To answer simply "the members of the Troop at the last election." That boys will attempt to get his goat to make him look bad especially since he is the SM's son!

He still felt his plan went well despite the outburst. The SM asked if he now understood how difficult teachers, and the SM has had when the boys were rowdy etc.

But then again I was surprised my son was elected as SPL. He won because one of the older boys came over to the camp of the younger boys but at least he planned the meeting an ran it according to his plan. Much better than the last SPL.

Great answer Bob! Eagle I'm not sure I didn't go past the brochure once I read it was for 14 and older. It's on the Ocoee river in TN. I'm not familiar with that one. I did go with my daughter's GS Troop on the Cumberland river below the falls class 3-4 due to rain the day prior and know from experience that the boys in our Troop are too young for that trip. Of course our boat was dumped 3 times and I was caught in a hydraulic on the first and thanks to the last boat captain was pulled out. It was wicked and I'm supposedly trained and know what to do. Of course my WW instructor always said your never fully trained until your caught in the current and have to use everything you know to get out. I just about did on that one. Couldn't imagine my young guys doing it they're not ready.

My son received a good benefit last night but I'm sure he didn't realize it. We went to school so he could pick up his Sax for band. We were assisting the Pack with it's school night afterwards so we both were in uniform. Turns out the man that owned the music store was an Eagle and my son just made FC so the guy made shure he had a new sax at a used price.

One of my Scouts asked me a question last night that troubles me. Here it is. Scoutmaster how come you said I couldn't go on the white water rafting trip the council is havin cause I'm 12 and didn't pass my swim test at summer camp but my friend Timmy, he's in Troop X, and he is going with his Troop and he's only 11 and he didn't even go to summer camp?

Now here's an excerpt from the flyer

For All Scouts, Venturers and Explorers over 14 years old.

Now here's what I told him Well being over 14 is one of the conditions of this high adventure outing as well as passing the swimmers test for activity in a boat on moving water. So you see Jimmy at age 12 you have yet to develop the muscle mass required for a strenous white water trip. Therefore I would not want to take the chance of anyone of our Scouts under 14 being hurt. You can still take your swimmers test at the YMCA lockin coming up as there will be an aquatics director there.

As to why Troop X is letting Timmy go. Well some people, despite what is the rules go ahead and break them. You've seen this happen at school I bet. Well Troop X has decided to do the wrong thing if Timmy attends this event that he is not ready for as a Scout. Sometimes is hard to do the right thing but in the end it's far better to err on the side of caution than to get someone hurt. Don't you think?

Troop X's boys are always luring our boys to join their Troop with trips like these. It's really difficult to counter sometimes with young boys who have school friends telling them of trips that are outside of G2SS guidelines or council high adventure outings with "For All Scouts, Venturers and Explorers over 14 years old." Any advice?

mmhardy

The Boy Scout Manual does have a program to teach

1. Buddy system

2. Utilize

S stay put

T take a breath and relax

O observe your surroundings

P plan how to get help and BE PREPARED to

from the begining

3. I outfit all our boys with a signal whistle

check to make sure they have it as part of

trip prep.

I won't say this wouldn't happen to our group but the lads should be prepared if the buddies do get lost toghether.

mmhardy

The Boy Scout Manual does have a program to teach

1. Buddy system

2. Utilize

S stay put

T take a breath and relax

O observe your surroundings

I'll check again when I get home but I'm pretty certain the last item on the form was a $7.00 caramel corn tin. The 15 pack microwave is $15.00 and the dropped the old fashioned popping tin this year it wasn't selling well.

Don't worry Eagle if your customers are not happy just send them my way Bluegrass Council is selling $7.00 caramel corn tins. I'd be happy to accomodate some folks. Were signed up for internet ordering so they can order from the Troop online and receive it UPS at home and the boys still get credit for the sale.

PS Story has it in this part of the state that someone in your council worked/owned interest in Campmasters so that's why they were chosen.

No matter send anyone that wants Trails end to Troop 376.

Update! Did some searching and discoverd the following. Since our CO is a Ruritan Club from the National Ruritan Club web page I pulled the following. So I'm sending them an email to obtain a copy of the determination. Or CO said he doesn't think they have a tax ID number as a non profit this could be why he doesn't know. This should take care of it in our case the CO can take it and give it to us.

http://www.ruritan.org/foundation/index.htm

The Ruritan National Foundation and all its programs are non-profit, and non-private. All donations to the Foundation are tax deductible to the donor under section 501 © 3 of the Internal Revenue Code. Copies of the original determination letters are available upon request.

Have to add to proud eagles post. We have a situation here in that a local business man has $$$ that he wants to use to support the Troop. He visited council as I instructed him to and they would be happy to accept his gracious donation and he was willing up and to the point they informed him that they would keep half of it for the council and then give the Troop the remainder.

Well he said no as he wanted "his money" to only help the scouts in "his" town. I've asked him to buy $$$ of popcorn but when he asked how much we kept of the proceeds he said "no since the boys can't use all of it." So out of curosity I called the Kentucky Secretary of States office and spoke with the person in charge of non profit corporations and she told me that it is legal in the state of Kentucky for a Boy Scout Troop to become incorporated and receive non profit status as recognized by the state of Kentucky. She also told me of several that are listed and can be looked up on the KY corporation web page. Now looking at the IRS 1023 instructions if your chartered by a church then you are already non profit as they are not required to file form 1023 form. If you can believe IRS instructions that is.

Yeah Eagle I make my son use the MB worksheets off MB.com for the one's I counsel. The other lads get to discuss with me their stuff so actually they get it easier. But then when the commitee asked if his gaol at BOR he had his 6 MB he earned this summer and his work sheets to refer to.

For me I like the 70's uniform I had as a scout. Those red stripes down the leg and around the pocket looked cool! Sort of like old west calvary pants. The were 100% cotton I think and were really cool during the warmer months. Cold in the winter but in my area we had more hot months than cold wet ones so it made sense for us. In the navy in the tropics we wore our whites year round. Got yelled at coming back to the states in the winter for being out of uniform when they were in blues.

Wish I could find some old 70's uniforms in adult sizes I'd change in a heart beat these olive pants itch=wool and are way to hot for me ditto the wool.

My son's got the Scout bug and nailed is BOR last week for First Class without any follow up questions from the board. However, one of the boys parents made the off comment to her son "oh he's the SM's son it's easier for him." I stopped and corrected her and informed her the only item that was holding her son back from 2nd class was the swimming requirement and service project since her son did not want to take the swimmers test during SC three weeks ago and has failed to show up for any of the 4 service projects the Troop has had. The lad didn't even attempt the SC swimming activities and didn't take part in the swimming classes. I informed her it was fine if he wanted to stay a TF that advancement was not mandatory just as long as he was having fun and getting something from the program. Which the boy has told me many times he's having fun.

My son has worked really hard and deserves the rank. In fact, I'm probably harder on him than the others in that I cut him no slack.

The committee members know how hard I make him work so they know each time he's been before them for BOR he knows his stuff. So how do you SM dads handle these tricky issues? I've had ASM's counter sign my son's advancements and merit badges etc. and we only sign off items in the boys manuals during troop meetings for all to see.

We use nick names in the troop I'm rafiki since I used the line from The Lion King (it doesn't matter it's in the past) to settle a dispute amongst Scouts on our very first outing as a Troop. We now have little bit (answer to anything is "just a little bit",owl(always was askin "who's that.",buck(likes knives),high eagle(Eagle patrol leader). Generally we ask the boys during our first campfire of the fall if they want to choose, keep or change Scout names of if something memorable occurred i.e. burning the food thus Cooky chosen by boy that burnt it.

Although after two wrong turns on outings (due to new roads being built and not on the map)the boys were calling me the lost Scoutmaster on the last trip. Oh and rip van winkle cause during summer camp I did managed to get a nap in during some morning MB classes. So I see no harm in Scout names as long as the boys are no ribbing each other or being mean. I think it adds the fun in scouting to say be at school and say across the hall in passing "hey buck you going this weekend to the camp out." "Yeah road kill I'll be there. How about hight eagle, owl, and cooky." "The said they'd be there. Do you think rafiki will get the conoes ok?" etc

Great ideas thanks we'll incorporate some of these for next year.

Hi all looking for ideas on presentation of the MB's the Scouts earned during summer camp.

Question for the troops that camps give form and not cards. How do you get the counselors signatures on the blue card after you return? What if a boy is up for Eagle and something is missing in council and he has to rely on his copy of the card as proof. The counselor hasn't signed it has he? Just pondering.

I've been a counselor for several and put down that I'm willing to work with any boy from any troop in the council. So far haven't received any calls. Except from the boys in the troop I serve.

"Buck" making it up the hill at SC coming back from the chow hall when he couldn't make 5 feet last year without saying "I can't make it I'm gonna have to stop." Bucks 11 and about 250#. Bucks come a long way since we started the troop.

Perhaps it's my South Central KY and christian upbring or that when I was a Scout Scoutmaster Woods taught me that "Dars folks in dis world dats just plumb ignorant. Dey try n cause trouble where ever dey can and trya ropin you into it. Don't you be let em, Take da high ground and don't bea stoopin to dar level."

When I see these so called "scouters" post what I consider onfensive post I just don't read them. No one's twistin my arm anyway. I mean Bob took one of my post using f/u incorrectly in a way I never intentioned. He stated on this forum something that my use of foul language led him to the understand my character. I didn't get upset I simply sent him a note as to his interpretation was incorrect that f/u in my profession of Nursing means follow up mean time another poster on this forum pointed this out to him. I did take the high ground and in my PM to Bob explained this and appologize that he misunderstood the meaning of my post. Did I need to, well in today's world no I did nothing wrong, it was his intrepretation that was incorrect not my use of an accronym. But the moral thing to do I my opinion was to take care of an obvious misunderstanding and explain something that obvious was not intented to happen.

Ruritan Club

Our DE has said on several occasions that the Troop can not accept direct donations. That if people want to donate we are to send them to him or the Council. Is this not the same elsewhere?

Scouter Paul

No we were at McKee in Central KY. We policed daily as we went out to the flag raising ceremony. We had a great trip for the Troop my son completed FC, one new TF, and lots of MB's only two MB's received partials. Fishing wasn't IMHO taught well since 4 boys came back with the same 4 partials. Rained only twice once Monday night and again Friday noon-4.