SMT376Richmond KY

OK gonna ruffle a few feathers here but what the hay I haven't been in trouble in awhile. I must eat very little on the trail it seams compared to most of the replies I see here(usually one pot meals hate the extra wt in the pack and the clean up for big stuff on my exponet stove and my MSR pots)! The requirement is to prepare a meal it doesn't say a full course meals just a meal so what if the lads each fixed a hot dog (works well with a stick over the flame of the exponet by the way)or soup, or made oatmeal for breakfast, or each fries up bacon for their own blt without the L or the T all are meals right.

I see it this way the three boys are on an outing so they make up a patrol. Johnny cooks oatmeal for breakfast, Jimmy cooks hot dogs for lunch. Timmy whips up some beef stew for dinner on Johnny's stove. The three boys each cooked a meal for their patrol on this outing as. I'm a MB counselor for camping and I take it the idea of this requirement is to learn how to properly use the stoves not the type of meal prepared. I don't see a problem as long as each has to start the stove from scratch to prepare the meal they are still learning how to properly use a stove. Besides isn't a Scout encouraged to have a buddy for merit badges? Just my 0.1 cents worth.

Hey Eagle

Glad to know there is misery just down the road a bit. Yeah my young guys are chomping at the bit to do the "glamorus stuff". However, they've scoffed at backpacking for a weekend in the Gorge. They want to truck camp all the time but then don't want to fork over the cash or do the fundraisers to make a big trip happen. They asked to go out of state for a trip but had no ideas so one of our parents suggested a 4 day Smokey Mountain trip which they were all excited about but did little planning for. I helped them out but once they realized we would not be hauling the Troop equipment to a site they changed their minds.

We're going to Torrent Falls in the Gorge in two weeks (if they pay there fees at next weeks meeting). Last night you could hear the crickets when the Committee Treasurer asked for the fees as planned (Troop treasury is picking up 100% of SC next month so until Sept popcorn comes around boys are funding their outings). We have mentioned that they need to pick a goal and work towards it in a couple of years but like most boys their ages they want it now.

Here is what we follow:

AGE-APPROPRIATE GUIDELINES FOR SCOUTING ACTIVITIES

Age-and rank-appropriate guidelines have been developed based on the mental, physical, emotional, and social maturity of Boy Scouts of America youth members. These guidelines apply to Cub Scout packs, Boy Scout troops, Varsity Scout teams, and Venturing crews.

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=xx&c=ds&terms=age+appropriate+guidelines

List the following:

Caving(Other than simple novice activities)under the column for Boy Scouts Caving is not selected as age appropriate. However, it is listed under OLDER BOY SCOUTS,VARSITY SCOUTS,AND VENTURERS. However, there is no mention what classifies an "older Boy Scout" which I have asked in another thread. I mean a lad joining at(10 now)would be FC within his first year of joining now 11

Our oldest just turned 13 and other Troops take lads under 14 "wild caving" and other high adventure activities. I've been told by two visiting webelos parents that they were invited to come along on theses too. From one of the Troops. We've gone on some "Simple novice activities" meaning commercially operated cave excursions and easy caves." (Mammouth, and Onyx cave at Ky Down Under)but these are walking tours not crawling on your belly like a reptile as I and the committee take it by the age approriate guidelines and G2SS we can't do since we have no older Scouts.

It's been difficult to keep our boys enthused when friends the same ages at school in other Troops are telling them "we go by ourselves without to a cave we know about in the next county."

cheffy

Look at G2SS Troops are not permitted to "wild cave" Troops are only permitted to go on guided cave tours. I have problems recruiting since another Troop in our town likes to disregard this section and takes new Scouts and recruits with them to a cave on private property in the next county. In KY we have mammouth cave which offers a good tour there are many caves in Cave City KY as well as Carter caves in North Eastern KY which has a good tour also. Indiana has Squire Boone caverns but not sure of the tour packages they offer.

CNYS

I follow the program as outlined in my Scoutmaster's handbook. I also follow G2SS and try to get our young boys to realize that ours is a boy led Troop. We have a problem with a few other units in our area that in my opinion do not follow the program fully. I've seen at district camporees that the Adults in these units do a lot for the boys (bring precut firewood, clean dishes for them, build fires for them etc.) I've rarely seen a boy in a POR in these Troops inform the Scouts of anything.

I think it's important for our Scouts to get camp set up first (adults help them if needed but we stand back and see if they can do it themselves), go out and properly find, collect and prepare firewood not have it precut with a chain saw for them. Since our boys have seen these other Troops they don't want to go out and collect firewood or cut it for that matter. The SPL (my son)usually ends up having to "get them" several times to go collect wood(he goes too)since it's hard to lead from the back of the group which has led some of the boys to "dislike" him as they say he's "always yelling at them". In fact, my son informs me he doesn't want to be SPL again since "those guys just don't listen or want to do anything they only want to play in camp."

I had one of our orginal boys call me after our spring camporee last month and tell me we was quitting the Troop when I asked him why after 2 years of membership (only made SC wanted the advancement but not willing to do the work, only lacked identifying 10 plants and night navigation for FC missed opportunity to do both at spring camporee due to sleeping) he said "well you always want us to do everything when we go camping." I took the opportunity to educate him by telling him that "if the leaders do everything for Scouts do you think the Scouts would learn anything?" Unfortunately he didn't get it and said well "I just don't want to do Scouts anymore." There seems to be a trend here since we have had several drop outs recently and the overlying theme is "too much work camping". In fact, we are down to six boys now (from 10) which makes it really hard to spread the duties around on a weekend camping trip. When the boys complain both myself and the ASM's tell them "hey recruit some of your friends or the other boys to come back if you don't want to do clean every day."

Anyway my point is by following the program as outlined it's my expreience that alot of today's youth don't want to do the required work and have come to expect that everything be done for them. If the trend keeps going the way it is I'm sure we'll fold the Troop next March since no one's knocking down our doors and even the roundups that we did for the fifth graders this year or the one for the communtiy set up by our DE had 0 participation. Our Pack has 10 webelos that will be ready this year but none of them have participated in any of the activities the Troop has invited them too over the last year. I was told that this was because the parents did not want to come camping with the boys. Well that's the program they have to come with their boys I can't change that.

Kenk

Wow must be nice to have enough adults and cars to transport those boys with two adults in each vehicle? As to your Question #4 Buddy system all the time!! and when a lad shows up alone ask "where's your buddy?"

Let me refresh everyone's memory since no one mentioned this yet they still (to my knowledge) haven't found the body of the Scout (who had recently completed wilderness survival MB??)in the Utah mountains whose dad sent him back to camp(just up the trail)alone to change shoes last year!!

Laura

I was nominated by our district committee for my work as camporee chair last spring. You may try this route if your Troop will not appoint you. Believe me as camporee chair I do more outside camporee work than paper pushing. I'm usually the one that organized the activities and make sure everything is done per plan at camp and sets up the Camporee HQ etc. Although there was a foul up with the paper work (lodge officer never received an application from dictric comm)I was unable to attend ordeal in Sept. We just had OA elections and both of our two candidates were elected. One was my son who to my surpirse was elected since he's not popular with the older boys. As SM I stressed to the boys that OA election was NOT a popularity contest. They were to vote only for a boy if they feel they met the requirements that OA advisor (who holds our districts elections)gave them.

After the election the OA advisor came up to me and asked me to sign the adult application that wasn't turned in fall. So guess at SC we'll have three from the Troop tapped out.

Our Troop has 4 coleman sundowner tents and 1 old Eureka 80's model timberline. During the spring camporee two weeks ago, it rained like Noah was gettin ready to float the ark. We had water ankle deep in our campsite (even had to trench to drain it out)the 4 colemans with the new weather tek system were dry as a bone (had not been sealed yet). Our Northeast Territory HQ tent (SM's personal family tent) had a couple of small ponds in it (ASM soaked SM high and dry since I bring my cot).

The Eureka was totally washed out infact the seam cover in the middle floor seperated from the standing water I guess or the glue just gave way from age. The committee decided to replace it with another coleman.

Monthly activity this year Klondike in Jan (it was -8 with wind chill of -40 boys loved it!) February couldn't do backpacking trek due to everyone sick from Klondike! March indoor swimming at the local Y to get swim tests done prior to SC. April lockin and movie night for early rise pancake breakfast May spr camporee canoe and hiking treks (all enjoyed). June cliff climbing (boys still not totally committed $$). July SC. August Camping @ Ft. Knox. September Kings Island amusement park (boys still not committed $$).

October fall camporee.

Seattle

Hey we ate good all day Saturday about 3 doz scrambeled eggs between 5 boys. 3 lbs of bacon and 2 lbs sausage and 3 cans of bisquits plus toast, OJ, and fruit. Lunch was about 3lbs of cold cuts, hot dogs, chips, apples,and pudding. Saturday dinner was foil packs using 5 lbs of hamburger, a bag of potaoes, onion, carrots, dinner rolls and cobbler or snack cakes to top it off. Friday night snack was cracker barrell left overs which was a cheese and relish tray cookies etc. Saturday night snack was of course smores. We also had trail mix for the hike and Quaker chewy's for the canoe trip. So no reason for anyone to be hungry. In fact, we brought a lot back with us.

I hope the sleepy heads learned a lesson. I did forget to mention in my earlier post they could cook and clean their own breakfast since we had eggs and bacon left from Saturday and miss the canoe trek but it was up to them. They each ate from the pantry and went canoeing. But believe me no one was hungry or even complained of such since the granola pars and trial mix was used during the canoe trek.

Would like to relate something that has happened on a few of our trips. For our trips the boys plan one big breakfast usually on Saturday morning and have something lite for easy clean up on Sunday morning so they don't have a huge mess to clean up (they took this from the leaders example after a few Sunday's spending extra time cleaning the griddles from eggs, bacon and pancakes). The Sunday breakfast always has available the following instant oatmeal, fruit and juice of somekind. In addition, I keep stocked in the pantry bin peanut butter or cheeze sandwhich crackers one or two 12 packs of each as well a ramen noodles etc.

On our last camporee two weeks ago we had 3 older boys who simply refused to get up for Saturday and Sunday breakfast (this is a recurrent theme for these lads)after the third attemp by the adults we told them "ok you've decided to sleep in if you miss breakfast that's your decision." Well these lads awoke just as cleanup was being finished and wanted to eat. The SPL told them "hey you slept through breakfast we're getting ready to break camp." Saturday I informed them to get something out of the pantry that we were getting canoes in the water for the river trek.

Sunday when they came to me to which I offered them an apple and some penut butter crackers.

Well you guessed it one mom calls that I wouldn't let her son eat breakfast for two days. To which I informed her that her boy chose to sleep through breakfast and he was provided something to eat for both meals. She appologized after asking the boy (I could hear her asking him if what I told her happend and he said "yes but that wasn't breakfast").

Sounds like the Troop at the start of this thread needs to stock it's contingency pantry better.

Scout We asked them aside form "paint ball" wild cave exploring, hunting etc. you could hear the crickets in the silence when we asked for other suggestions that fit into G2SS. They didn't want to take a "guided cave tour" as they said that would be for "kids" told them of one that had 13 inch passageways that I didn't think that was very Kid like. They didn't want to do that one as "you get wet". They wanted to go to amusement park till they found out the cost. Told them they could backpack in the Red River Gorge or Daniel Boone National Forest and once again the crickets came out. The young guys loved these ideas but the 3 13 YO's didn't yet offered no other ideas.

I've told them many times to plan a patrol outing and submit their plan to me and if all is well with the plan I'd be happy to approve it. Well out came the crickets again!

It's as if they just want something to complain about. Like the one that hasn't made FC as he hasn't identified his plants or passed the swim test yet. Plan for June is to go the the viaferrata that was recently in Scouting Magazine but once again when they were informed of the cost associated the crickets came out. We are a small rural Troop and we barely make enough on popcorn to cover summer camp and two camporees per year. Our other big fundraiser our pancake breakfast we only made $35.00 so it's been a bad year for fundraising too much competition from school, church groups etc.

OOOOO just noticed I've moved to senior forum member. And a good o bear too!

In getting ready for summer camp this year I'm hearing a lot of "same old stuff" from 4 of the orginal boys from the Troops start up 3 years ago. One was a 10.5 YO AOL (Star) tranfser the other 3 are turning 13 this year (FC and 2 SC).

Anyway when is a good time for "older scout" activities? These boys have over 50 days camping in the past 2 years and the Star and FC were voted into OA by their peers at the elections this year (ordeal next week). I don't want them to get bored if they think they are ready for more challenging activity.

Thanks

I liked them as a scout think it would be good to bing em back. Gives boys a sense of accomplishment while working on ranks besides the check off board on the wall

Well being a Scoutmaster, I can say he may do better in Boy Scouts since parents don't have to be involved (nice if they do) for the boy to make rank. He does the work as long as he can make meetings and outings like it seems in your post. I'd say take the other advice advance him to a good Troop without his AOL. Nothing says he has to have it to join BS just be 11 and complete the 5th grade.

Little more information and an update.

This lad struggled to swim the 25 ft for second class took about an hour to get him across the pool in 2003. We have been working on this off and on now for two years. He didn't report to swim class at SC last year on multiple days when I checked attendance. Several ASM's have made arrangements with the boy and his mom to meet at the local Y and "work" with the lad. I have scheduled several additional swims myself and he just can't get it. I feel for the lad he is getting discourage seeing all his pals pass him by for advancement. He has completed all the other requirements for FC and even the MB's for Star and half for Life. Unfortunately if he can't get past the swim test he will never attain these higher ranks.

Last night at our meeting our district unit commissioner told the boy that he would be happy to work with him 1:1 as myself and two other ASM's have worked with this lad over the past year since SC.

He is trying his best but as soon as the water hits his face he starts to freak out and I'm afraid if we push the issue more than we have by holding him and easing him in he's going to drown! He can't go past the edge of the pool more than a foot without holding onto the edge or the rope. When he manages to pull himself to the shallow end he starts to walk on the bottom. I really think he has aquaphobia that as I told his mom needs to be looked into further if she chooses. She thinks we are holding her son back and we have told her we can not add or detract from the requirements that all the boys are and have passed this same test. That's one reason I wanted her at the pool side this weekend. Not easy and not fun for this lad. Thanks for all the advice. Our Committee is going to contact the council to see what needs to be done for this lad.

Ed as an RN by profession, I can confirm that fear of water Aquaphobia is indeed a mental disability. To which this Scout would qualify as I have seen the look of terror on his face and the anxiety he has faced over the prospect of doing the swim test.

Aquaphobia: An abnormal and persistent fear of water. Sufferers from aquaphobia experience anxiety even though they realize the water in an ocean, a river, a lake, a creek or even a bathtub may pose no imminent threat. They generally avoid such activities as boating and swimming. Around the house, they may fear the water in a shower or tub and even desist from bathing therein.

Come to think of it this lad hygene leaves mutch to be desired. I'm going to suggest to his mom tonight at the meeting that she obtain the doctors statement if she wants to.

I don't know OGE I spoke with his mom who was at the Y pool with us. I told her we have done about all we can at this point that he obviously has a fear of water. And that if this is the case we would need some documentation to this effect. I've looked in my handbook and the requirements do say the committee can grant a waiver for medical of safety reasons and I forwarded the boys results to our CC for review. I do think that if he does qualify for a waiver he certainly should not come on any boating outings we have since I think it prudent he stay home until he can swim. A PFD alone in my opinion isn't adequate especially when white water rafting.

Anyone know what the qualifications are for a boy to be granted alternate swimming requirement for first class. I have a boy that is terrifed of the water. We even had him to the local Y over the weekend and the life guards after testing all our boys worked individually with this lad until well after closing time and he just cant seem to get over his fear of the water. This is the third time we have attempted to train him our district commissioner even worked with him prior to taking the test this time. He mentally can't do it. So how do I go about getting him an alternate test. After a very long time the lifeguards felt he barely met the second class requirement but felt that is all he can do.

It's dead in my house and troop after my son decided a couple of weeks before christmas to lift a couple of packs of those stupid cards from Wallyworld. Because "some of my friends at school said it was easy." Yeah he forgot the Scout law big time. Cost him all but one of his christmas presents. His game cube, game boy advance, tv prevledges (we still choose what he watches and NO Yu-Gi_oh or any other of these types of shows. Educational and news only!),TV/vcr in his room the ability to tolerate sitting for about an hour after he came back from discussing this with the store manager and the police officer posted in the store. $40.00 of his money to pay the store for what he lifted (store got to keep the cards too!). The 250 cards he had collected since third grade made a nice starter for a fire that he had to start himself since we had to clear some brush on our farm (he actually visualized his money spent going up in smoke). In addition, as his Scoutmaster, I could not, knowing what he did, allow him to sit for his BOR for STAR since he had violated the Oath and Law. His mother and I think he's got the idea but it was strange he didn't get it that stealing was wrong because "my friends did it and they didn't get in trouble." Told him that's either because they didn't get caught, their parents don't care, or they are just sorry.

He is now working on his scout spirit and may actually be able to sit at next months BOR's.

Life for life like many others enjoyed the outdoor program in the 70's alot. I was involved in football and then the three G's (guns, gas and girls). I did manage all the merit badges for Eagle just quit without doing my project as Scouting wasn't as much fun anymore as the three G's were at the time. Besides the Troop didn't go camping as much anymore. In fact, they didn't do much high adventure stuff either for those of us over 16.

Now my sons just about ready to sit for his BOR for Star. He say he wants to make Eagle but that's up to him. I hope he does. Looking back I wish my dad would have encouraged me a little more. He wasn't involved in Scouts as he was disabled and in the 70's you hardly saw disabled folks involved in Scouting.

Well for all my boys ranks I do not sign off on the scout spirit until everything else is done but prior to SM conference as SS is in most ranks the last item before the SM conference. Also, at the conference I let the boys know they are now working towards the next rank which includes SS.

Well my last message was chopped up by the great computer god I guess. This is what is should have been.

KY winter weather hx just for fun.

Yesterday afternoon when I left the office it was high 40's, 25 degrees on my front porch in Richmond 30 miles south of Lexington when I left for work this morning. Oct 31, 2003 Hallowoods Cub Scout campout 29 degrees droped from 60 degrees that afternoon forcasted high for the night was to be 55 degrees. Needless to say she who must be obeyed decided she'd never go on another Scout Campout after September.

Klondike derby Jan 28, 2002 (last year as CM our 3 webelos attended) 30's on Friday, Saturday 5-10 degrees depending on which TV/radio weather man you listened to.

Klondike derby Jan 21, 2004 20 degrees freezing rain 1/4 inch ice.

Annual Christmas parade first Saturday in December always high 20's to low 30's even when day prior is in the 50's-60's.

Other extreme fall camporee Nov 17, 2003 70+ degrees clear and nice all weekend No rain!.

whoda thunk that for a district camporee doesn't it always seem to rain?

Dan

KY winter weather hx just for fun.

Yesterday afternoon when I left the office it was high 40's, 25 degrees on my front porch in Richmond 30 miles south of Lexington when I left for work this morning. Oct 31, 2003 Hallowoods Cub Scout campout 29 degrees