SMT224

Ok Pack, you got me there. Raw liver just doesn't do it for me. I guess I do have my limits!

Although I do like sushi & sashimi. I mean, strips of raw sea kitten rolled in rice and chopped into bit-sized pieces.

Pasture raised and grass fed! Sweet as can be! And did I mention? Real fresh!

Pack's fish story reminds me of how much I love fresh liver, preferably from a freshly killed lamb. Have the grill going and ready before you kill the animal, then pull out the liver as soon as you begin the slaughter and toss it on the grill. I'll tell you, it is really good!

What about the poor defenseless bacteria and viruses? Who's advocating for them? All this focus on macro-fauna is really discriminatory! Maybe PETA should rename them too! Who would want to use anti-backitten soap? And forget taking an antibackittenic! Far better to let these living creatures reach their full life and population potential - no matter what the side effects on humans may be! Who knows, bacterial kittens could be just as intelligent (not to mention adorable) as dogs and cats, and may feel pain just as all animals do. Given the drastic situation for this country's bacterial kittenswho are often the victims of many major threats to their welfare and ways of lifeit's high time that the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) stop allowing our little bacterial kitten friends to be tortured and killed.

mmhardy - The description of the Eagle Week sounds great and very legitimate, but 13-16 MBs a session? From start to finish 6 to 8 merit badges is pushing it but possible during a week of summer camp (at an Eagle Week) with a significant amount of work by the Scout. But more than that I'd really have to wonder if the merit badge is being taught properly and they are actually doing the requirements. Of course if the Scout has done many of the requirements before coming to camp it is possible to do more, but still!

I'm happy if the Scouts in our Troop can get 4 to 6 completed merit badges at summer camp. Beyond that they are either not participating in the rest of summer camp - games, skits, hanging out by the fire or lake, or the place is a mb mill and they are really not doing the requirements or learning anything.

Ex-squeeze me??!!

13 to 16 Eagle Merit Badges at a week-long summer camp "Eagle week"??

There are only 15 Eagle Merit Badges!

And there is no way to do all of them - even 13 of them - in a week!

As that cop said in the Matrix, "That's impossible!"

As you can see CubScoutJo, there are a number of opinions on this issue. Work with your Scouts to find what works best for your Troop. Adult dictated processes, either to have regular elections or not, means the Scouts are not involved and thus will likely not support the outcome. Regular elections every six months, with possible re-election, has worked very well for us. But you will have to see what fills the needs of your Troop & Scouts. I suggest active PLC (Greenbar) discussions and a flexible attitude.

Camp Bashore in PA had an excellent SPL Handbook last year (2008). I checked their website (http://www.campbashore.org/) and did not see the 2009 version, but will send you the 2008 pdf I have.

NYLT is part of the training process, as is Troop JLT and general Troop leadership experience. Both JLT and NYLT are required for a Scout to be SPL in our Troop. This is not my dictatorial edict, but what the Scouts came up with in PLC (Greenbar). Here are the full requirements (which posted and very transparent so all know and understand):

Senior Patrol Leader

Star Scout, 4 years in Troop, has held other leadership positions, attends Troop JLT, attends NYLT, 85% of Troop meetings, 75% of Troop outings and service projects.

The bottom line is what works best for the individual Troop, and it's not the same for every Troop.

Our Troop has done several of the leader selection and term processes described here. However, after much discussion in PLC (Greenbar) meetings the Scouts decided on regular elections based on clear leadership criteria and eligibility. They also wanted all eligible Scouts to be able to serve as SPL if desired. Now we have SPL and PL elections every six months (September & March with JLT in October & April). The Scouts know exactly what they need to do to become a leader and usually who will be the next SPL. It has worked out really well because everyone supports it - Scouts and Adults alike.

A big part of Scouting is leadership training by experience, not simply having good leadership in the Troop. Letting everyone take their turn at leadership is not dumbing anything down - it's giving all the Scouts an opportunity to have successes and make mistakes in a safe environment. Depriving some Scouts of a leadership opportunity just because one Scout is a great leader and does good things for the Troop misses one of the fundamental parts of Scouting - preparing our boys to become leaders of men.

Do we hold regular Troop elections? Absolutely! And it works great! What with the incessant change our boys are subjected to out in the "real world", a little consistency seems to be one of the things they really appreciate about Scouting.

Here's reality:

Slumberjack Latitude -20F Degree Mummy Sleeping Bag, 6 lbs. 3 oz., Price:$59.99

Mountain Hardwear Wraith -20F Degree Down Sleeping Bag, 4 lbs. 4 oz., Sale Price: $449.97 (Regular Price: $525.00)

Yea, the synthetic will not compress as well, and is 2 pounds heavier, but the cost difference, along with far better performance when wet makes the decision easy! My -20F bag really isn't that bulky - and knowing how warm I'm going to be makes the slight extra size well worth it.

Buffalo - Thanks for a great resource!! I will put it to good use!

When I lived in NM I was a hard core down advocate, and looked with distain at the synthetic bags and the folks in them. But now that I'm living back east in the mid atlantic area I done a full 180. Myself, and my three boys in Scouts all have $60 -20F synthetic Slumber Jack bags from Campmor. They have kept us warm and toasty in below 0F weather. Down may be fine in CO and NM, but back here the high humidity and general wet camping conditions make down a very dangerous proposition. I learned this the hard way the first time I took my old down bag out on a PA winter camping trip. I'm totally sold on synthetic now because I like to sleep warm!

My Staff patch came in yesterdays mail. Nice to have, but it seems strange that the letter commands me to wear (sew on me thinks) above the right pocket of my BSA uniform when not yet selected as an actual staff member. Perhaps this is part of a publicity or awareness campaign? But what if I'm not selected? Do I rip it off, or continue to wear it for years? Does paying the deposit (and thereby financially contributing to the overall effort) make me "Staff-like" enough to honestly wear a Staff patch? I wonder what percentage of us who receive the patch will not actually be selected as staff?

Rarely do governments take action on an issue unless publicly or legally pushed. They already have way too much to do with far too few resources to dive into such things with out cause.

Merlyn, do you know for an absolute fact that the sole reason the City of Philadelphia terminated the lease with BSA was the Dale decision with out any outside stimulus? In other words, did it simply come up as a matter of normal city business? Or was there an entity outside the city that advocated, either by a legal challenge or a publicity campaign, that the city take action on the building?

We are engaged in our winter JLT, and as I prepare for our next session, I'm considering the games we have played for years and wonder if there are other good ones out there. I'd like to add some new ones to keep things interesting. So I ask you, my fellow Scouters, what JLT games do you use?

Thanks!!

Just got back from our Girl Scout planning meeting for 2009. These girls want to camp! In tents! Not Yurts!

In January, they are doing cold weather camping (cabin at a Scout camp with wood stove) I'll be out side in my "Man tent"! Then orienteering, climbing, rafting, and biking for the rest of 2009! All with tent camping, fires and knives! I feel like this has evolved into a Venture Troop! These girls have their priorities straight!

Hey GSUSA! Maybe you should listen to these girls!

This whole gay discrimination thing is a really good example of tossing the baby out with the bath water. Attacking the Boy Scouts doth not induce inclusion! Who has all this fuss helped? Certainly not the Scouts. No doubt the high and mighty will be congratulating themselves as the old Scout Building lies abandoned - "The evil has been vanquished!" But what will fill the void? No doubt they will mutter, "Not my problem!"

I agree 100% with others on this post who have said that the Scout Law is the only Code of Conduct you will ever need.

Before every Troop activity - camping trips, service projects, summer camp, and others, we let the Scouts know that we are all bound by the Scout Law. Not just Scouts, but adults too.

To stray outside of that Law is to gain attention - first from the Patrol Leader, then Senior Patrol Leader, Scoutmaster, and eventually, the Committee. But these are just procedures - the law is the Law!

We go cold weather camping every February.

The most important thing is that all the Scouts participating be prepared both in gear and knowledge. We will spend much of January discussing cold weather camping and first aid. It's important they understand how to both camp in February and June. It's also important they have the right equipment, which will make the difference between a really fun time and a miserable cold time. I have found that cold weather camping is a real confidence builder, as those Scout who are scared of the cold realize they can over come their fear, stay toasty warm, and have fun. Plus they really like to come back and say they survived a night at 2 degrees!

In addition to the wisdom offered by kbandit, we really stress not bring any cotton clothes - especially jeans! The cotton soaks up all kinds of water - sweat, wet snow, rain, and then looses it insulation properties and gets very, very cold. This makes for a miserable time for kids wearing jeans. Wool pants are the best, but synthetic pants and snow pants are excellent too. The same goes for cotton socks -- wool is 100 times better. We also feed the Scouts string cheese at bed time, as this keeps them warm all night!

To ensure Scouts have the proper equipment now, I will be distributing the message and list pasted below at our Troop meeting this week (and also emailing it to parents), hoping parents will spend some of their scarce resources on equipment rather than video games! The cost of good winter bag at campmor is just about the same as one game for the xbox or other systems! Plus Cabelas alway seems to have amazing prices on long undies (called performance underwear!) and other warm things in last year's colors!

*****

The Troop will be going on a Cold Weather Campout in February 2009, and many Scouts need to upgrade their camping equipment for this event to stay dry and warm. Let Santa help! These make wonderful Christmas presents!

Wool socks

Synthetic long underwear

Synthetic t-shirt

Water proof gloves / mittens

closed cell foam pad

Synthetic mummy sleeping bag that is rated to 0F or below

waterproof insulated boots

wool shirt, sweater, pants

Snow pants

fleece jacket or sweater

shell jacket

wool or synthetic hat

good flashlight

backpack or duffel to carry things on Scout camping trips

A few of Santas secrets: Campmors Web Bargains (www.campmor.com), Cabelas Bargain Cave (www.cabelas.com), REI Outlet (www.rei.com).

Here's how we do it:

Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmasters sign off on rank advancement.

Scoutmaster signs off on the Scout Spirit & Scoutmaster Conference

Committee members sign off on Board of Review

My kids are into Scouting, so I am lucky in that they are self motivated and like doing Troop activities and advancing in rank. My oldest needed some help to stay on task during his Eagle project, but was very motivated to get Eagle.

Most of the Scouts in our Troop have days that they don't want to come to a meeting (let alone do anything but sleep and eat and mess around), and are told by their parents that they are going anyway. This is normal. Most of the time they like Scout activities, seeing their friends, and especially going camping. Some advance faster than others, some are working specifically toward Eagle, others just like camping and advance slowly. We tell them that we will provide as many opportunities to advance as we can at meetings and on camping trips, but it is up to them to actually do the advancement and then bring their book to a leader for a signature. I have regular Scoutmaster conferences with all the Scouts, and talk to those who are advancing very slowly about upcoming opportunities, but I leave it up to them as to whether they will actually do the advancement or not. They will be equally welcome as a Tenderfoot or as an Eagle on the vast majority of Troop activities.

However, as Scoutmaster, the worst behavioral problems I have had in the Troop are those Scouts who do not want to be there, but are forced to attend and advance by their parents. When I have a Scout who is disruptive and tells me he hates Scouts, but has to attend (or else), I sit down with him and his parents and request that they find another activity for their son. This can really break the heart of some parents that were Scouts themselves and really had hoped their son would make Eagle. Other parents have a problem child and somehow hope we will instill character. These kids can often be very disruptive and usually last only a few meetings. Kids who do not want to be in Scouts cost the Troop more than their parents understand by disrupting activities, requiring far more than their fair share of attention from adult leaders, and are often bullies to the Scouts who really want to be there. Or at the very least, unhappy Scouts should take a 3 to 6 month break. Often they want to come back and are much betters Scouts!

** lizard62 - If your son likes Scouting activities and enjoys going to meetings and on camping trips, great! Let him enjoy what he can in Scouting and while you can work with him on advancement, shoving it down his throat will not help him. Let him advance at his own pace, but let him know you support him on his trail to Eagle. On the other hand, if he really hates going to meeting and other Scout activities, please find another activity for him! He will be happier, and believe me, so will the Troop leaders and other Scouts.

The entire episode is on Hulu -- http://www.hulu.com/tv

If you haven't discovered this site, it is pretty amazing - lot's of TV programs and movies that are basically free (there are ads). My sons and I had fun watching old "Dragnet" and "McHale's Navy" shows. Worth checking out!

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

Could someone clearly and concisely articulate the sabbath requirements and related issues for LDS Scouts and how that impacts their camping? I have vague bits and pieces, but really do not understand the whys and wherefores.

Our Troop is sponsored by a Catholic Church, but only about 1/3 of the Scouts are Catholic. We nevertheless taylor our camping trips to ensure Scouts can always get to Sunday Mass. A near-by LDS Troop recently folded, and should some of those Scouts consider joining our Troop, what accommodations might we need to make? Or is that even possible? Are LDS Scouts required to only be in an LDS sponsored Troop?

Thanks!!