slontwovvy

I personally am disturbed by the "race" to get Eagle so young. The point of Scouting is learning, something I do not feel is accomplished by young Eagles. A 16-year-old Eagle is worth a dozen 12- or 13- year old Eagles in my book.

We put an ad in local church bulletins for a Scout Day, a sort of camp at a local nature center which our Scouts put on. There is a monkey bridge, a sample ax yard, nature hikes, and other activities. It's a great tool for retention and recruiting.

I will keep everyone involved in my prayers.

SlontWovvy

Definitely Cooking. The most useful and applicable of the options. Cooking is something everyone should learn to do properly.

He had a leadership project, just did not do it. Then he had another one, and did not complete it. Eventually we stopped giving him assignments because he couldn't be trusted to complete them.

I will talk to the Board about it. The dad called me again last night. Now he wants us to allow his son's school activities to count as leadership again. I kept trying to explain to him you can't do that, but he doesn't seem to understand.

Bob,

The boy just didn't want to lead. He was content to sit there and do nothing. It's difficult to get a boy to lead anything when the night he's scheduled to do something, he doesn't show up, and the night it's rescheduled, he doesn't show up, and so on an so on. A boy needs to lead on his own; a SM can nudge but can't lead for him.

I don't see how the thirty hours requirement would be adding a requirement. It would merely be used as tangible proof that you have, in fact, been a leader for six months. 30 hours provides for an hour and a quarter per week. Considering our troop has over 48 hours of active time per month (not counting, obviously, sleeping on outings), this should be no problem. It merely proves that the boy has held his leadership position.

I can respect that opinion, AdvanceOn, but in my opinion, this case is different. He has not held an official position within the troop as far back as I could find.

His Eagle project--he's making a guided nature trail. He bought the signs (my understanding is he just told a company what he wanted) and is now spending a total of eight hours (including the hours of the Scouts helping him) installing them. I have no idea how it was approved, but I can't see that as an Eagle Project.

He has four months left until his birthday. In my opinion, he's out of contention already, but 'tis merely my opinion.

In an attempt to stop this from happening again, I have begun to implement an expectations project for future Scouts. In order to prove leadership, Scouts will be required to have cards signed off by adult leaders after they perform a leadership act at meetings or outings. 30 hours of leadership and the requirement is met. Any more comments and/or suggestions?

Thank you very much.

You can save yourself the call to Ft. McCoy. They do not allow Scouts after September 11 due to the greater number of reserves training there. My troop's bike trip, which normally stayed there, is now in the cabins at Camp Decorah near La Crosse.

He got Life before my time as a leader, I don't know how.

In my opinion, he has not had his six months of leadership. As I said before, he rarely attends anything and usually stays quiet when he's there. About the only thing I can think of that he's done is served on a camp staff for two weeks two years ago. However, he hasn't shown the leadership in the troop.

He's been talked to about these concerns before, not by me but by another adult leader who's been silenced by the dad's allegations.

I don't see myself as having particularly high standards. I want the project to be over 100 hours, which he is doing (albeit with only ten of those himself). I just want him to earn his Eagle rather than have it be given to him; my fellow leaders have come down with Eagle fever, in my opinion.

I have a very interesting dilemma. There is a Life Scout going for Eagle in my troop; the rest of the leaders disagree as to whether he should be allowed to do so.

He is 17 , turns 18 in early October. He has all his merit badges and has his Eagle project approved, but my doubts remain. He has been a Life Scout for two years almost. He shows up for around 1/3 of the meetings, and maybe one outing in eight. When he does show up, he never provides leadership, just sits there and leaves. Even when he asked people to help with his Eagle project, he left after doing so. His Eagle project will be over 100 hours, but he will have done around ten hours of work.

Here is the dilemma: I am considering not signing him off due to lack of leadership. His father and mother are taking his side, arguing that their son has attempted to show leadership, it just has been stifled by the troop. (He tried to build a troop web site but he wasnt taking into account security concerns, leaving information that shouldnt be posted on the site, such as phone numbers, addresses, etc. He later removed it, but refused to do any more on the project. Then he claimed he could count his school activities for leadership in the troop, which I denied.) His father, and Eagle Scout himself, refuses to accept this, saying that our troop is being too strict.

I have a problem with signing this boy off, but the other assistants and Scoutmaster have no qualms. What does everyone else have to say about this, just out of curiosity?

Last time I checked, the BSA still belonged to the world organization as well.

I'd always say to give them a free period, maybe one hour (usually in the afternoon) when they can go swimming or boating or shooting and just do things with others. Summer camp is more about having fun than earning merit badges, every camp counselor is told. The former leads to the latter.

Thanks for the help. Anything else? In the guidebook to adventure it says you need to bring ten tent stakes per person. What kind do you use for this? Is there any special kind that works best?

See "A Parent's Guide to Summer Camp" in the Summer Camp forum.

I would always recommend First Aid, then maybe Mammal Study, and then a handicraft type badge. I would have no qualms with putting your son in Rifle. I've found that the guidelines usually are for the normal Scout, one who does not have any experience in the field. If your son has gone hunting before, or if he has Hunter Safety, he is going to be at a large advantage. Sign him up!

As for the First Year Program (at my camp it's Eagle Challenge, or EC), I've really never seen the use for it. If the troop does a good job teaching Scout skills it should never be necessary.

Also, if there is an instructional swim period (there is at most camps, from my experience) you could use that to make your son feel more comfortable in the water.

A couple more--

Do not expect things to be just like at home. The food will not be the same, you may get wet, you may not be able to keep some of your routines. Don't make these sticking points, and don't complain to the staff about them.

Sctmom's right--don't expect them to wear all the clean clothes. Don't expect them to shower every day, or every other day for that matter. Boys will be boys.

I would agree with Bob. If the offense is serious, such as distributing illegal drugs, there is no question that that is an offense worthy of informing the police. Smaller offenses, take them as you will. However, something that serious is beyond the bounds of parental discipline. The police deserve to be informed.

For any first-time summer camp parents out there, here are a few guidelines to help your son (and you) get through the week.

1. Send mail. Just don't send mail saying that they're missing out on the best time at home or that family members are crying themselves to sleep thinking about his absence.

2. Don't tell your child that if he gets homesick, you will come and pick him up. Ten to one, they're going to come home.

3. Don't come up to camp in the middle of some day unexpected. It does a lot more harm than good.

4. If you are attending camp with your child, have fun, but give them a little freedom. That's half of what camp is about.

5. If at camp, do not expect or ask camp counselors to give special treatment because his parent is there. Working at camp, I have seen more than my share of parents who try to get their child into things that shouldn't be tried (a scrawny 11-year-old into lifesaving, their kid into bird study on the fourth day with nothing done, etc.) Just don't go beyond the limits.

6. After camp, take the time to talk with your son about his experience. What did he like? What will he do next year? This parental support is essential in making Scouts like camp and in making them excited to return next year.

Maybe I should have clarified my original message. My troop uses cleaning the latrine as a punishment. If there is anyone who clearly violates troop rules, they will be assigned the latrine duty. Everyone in the rest of the troop knows who will be doing latrine. Would this be considered hazing?

This is where my original question comes in. When does discipline stop and hazing begin?

I'm just concerned where this policy could be taken.

"No, I'm embarrassed when the other boys see me cleaning out the latrine." etc.

How can we make the Scouts do anything? If they claim to be embarrassed by it, they have a carte blanche to get out of duty.

Where does punishment or discipline end and hazing begin?

It is my understanding that you cannot undertake the ordeal out of the lodge of which you are going to be a member. Double-check this but to even be tapped out in another council requires permission from the lodge chief and/or advisor.

At least that's my understanding of the situation. Check with your lodge chief or advisor or consult National for your status.

You need to get the permission of your lodge chief or lodge advisor in order to get anyone tapped out in another lodge. Even then, you cannot do your ordeal in that lodge nor be inducted by that lodge. You must do your ordeal and induction at a Spring or Fall Conference.

This is a day late, but a big thank you goes out to all American veterans. We will never forget those who gave years, effort and life to keep this country and the rest of the world free. From this grateful citizen, thank you!

"In Flanders Fields"

By John McCrae

In Flanders fields the poppies blow

Between the crosses, row on row,

That mark our place; and in the sky

The larks, still bravely singing, fly

Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago

We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,

Loved and were loved and now we lie

In Flanders fields.

Take up your quarrel with the foe;

To you from failing hands we throw

The torch; be yours to hold it high.

If ye break faith with us who die

We shall not sleep, though poppies grow

In Flanders fields.