slontwovvy

I'm heading out to Philmont for the first time this summer. Are there any helpful hints you recommend? Any additional items that are must-brings? Any words of wisdom? Thanks for the help.

Then I guess my troop is rather old-fashioned. We still do it that way, and it has never been raised as an issue.

A big step involves pushing a more joint parent/Scout advancement approach. Put the Scouts in charge of doing BORs for Tenderfoot through First Class, allow older Scouts to sign off on requirements for Tenderfoot through First Class, allow for greater testing of knowledge. Let the parents and adult leaders do BORs for higher ranks. This two-test system can help eliminate people who don't learn what they are supposed to, who take the easy way out.

In yaworski's case, however, if the boy doesn't actually do the requirements (his parents do) then he has not met the requirements for Eagle from the National Council. While I agree with his sentiments (too many people push Eagle upon young Scouts too quickly to truly get the most out of Scouting), I have met a few 14-year-old Eagles who truly earned it. The majority, however, have had their parents counsel 20 of the 21 merit badges, or had their parents do their Eagle project, etc. Yaworski, if that is the case, then they do not deserve the badge.

I would also add Dian Fossey and Jane Goodall to this list. Both were willing to risk their life for a cause they believed in. Both, with minimal training but an abundance of guts and perseverance, revolutionized our knowledge of primates. Both worked as tireless supporters of the environment. Dian Fossey even gave her life in the line of duty.

I'm also off to Philmont, only for the first time.

I would also echo jmcquillan's thoughts. Both of the troops I know that have "private camps" (one of about fifteen acres, the other about two hundred) actually have the property "owned" by the CO. There's some stipulation in the deed or some agreement, however, that states that the camp cannot be sold as long as there is a boy scout troop attached to the CO.

Actually, two adult leaders I know did have their anniversary party up at camp. The cook staff arranged for a large cake that was shared with everyone at camp that week, and everyone sang to the couple. It was a wonderful way to mark their thirtieth.

There's a difference between being malicious in attacks on Carter and pointing out honest faults in his administration.

He was the second most honest president we've ever had. However, he was too much of an idealist to really get anything done. He was powerless to free the Iran Hostages. The only reason they were in fact released was to spite Carter. Not malicious, just an honest point.

How about Nelson Mandela, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize and advocate for human rights everywhere?

Or Albert Schweitzer, great humanitarian and doctor?

Jonas Salk, for perseverance and forging bravely ahead into previously uncharted territories.

Woodrow Wilson, for pushing peace even if it cost him his career.

Teddy Roosevelt, who had the forsight to preserve millions of acres of land for nature, even though it was not all that popular with many at the time.

I don't know of one in Ohio, but I do know of Eagle Cave near Richland Center, Wisconsin that allows something similar.

I believe that you can teach patriotism, or at least provide the basis for it, by teaching more of America. Provide more in-depth looks into The Star-Spangled Banner as Key originally wrote it (including the second, third, and fourth verses), by learning more about Lincoln and the history of the flag, by learning more about what makes America great.

That's where I think many schools have been lacking. They've been teaching it as a normal collection of names and dates where really it is something alive and special.

Try one of my favorite sites, www.bsacamps.org to find other scout camps in your area.

Good luck!

I would be inclined to at least require the Scouts to perform a religious service of their own. Religion is an important part of Scouting, and if the Scouts would be attending services if they were at home, I think it's reasonable to expect that they will do so on an outing.

Secondly, I do not agree that the PLC remains supreme when not dealing with health or safety. Simply put, there are some choices to which leaders need to guide the Scouts, that leaders need to nudge the Scouts towards. This is one of them.

Speaking of getting BSA fever in everyday life, I've put up the Scout sign before when meeting with a noisy group of children. Hmmm...some habits are just too hard to break.

Still, I wonder if those Pilgrims were ever able to peacefully and concisely express their emotions. Sad, really...

I just find it appalling what passes for history in our nation's schools. Sadly enough, in most public schools, the "don't offend anyone" rule gets put into play. The KKK is pictured as just a little men's club, not the lynching, disrespectful and racist organization it is. Slavery is covered over, so as to make believe that it never happened. They can't even discuss Thomas Jefferson in some places because he owned slaves.

Schools are focusing too much time and effort on the so-called "emotional needs" of the child while neglecting the real information they need to live.

"Those who don't learn their history are doomed to repeat it."

That is very disturbing news. Our local TV station is going to do a feature on Cub Scouts and leader security, such as what is done to protect them from abuse. It should be interesting to see.

I was reading an article by William Bennett in The American Legion magazine (I'm not a member but I know someone who is). The statistics he used frightened me. Only one out of three college seniors could identify George Washington as the American general at Yorktown, only one in four could identify James Madison as the "Father of the Constitution" only one in five could identify the phrase "government by the people, for the people..." as being from the Gettysburg Address.

They also had a case where a man attempted to post portraits of George Washington in public schools (I believe it was New Jersey). Out of the 2400 he purchased, only 60 were posted because schools didn't want to offend anyone by posting them.

Lastly, the state of New Jersey also removed Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, the Pilgrims and the Mayflower from their required state curriculum.

Does anyone else think that we are destroying America? Only Scouting really provides a chance to learn about patriotism, respect for the flag, etc. We must do our utmost to teach our Scouts about their country, since it is apparent that their schools are not doing so.

Hmmm...

First of all, I think what the Catholic Church is saying is that homosexuality is sort of a mental illness. If it is a mental illness, it can be treated or overcome (see OCD, depression, schizophrenia, etc.). In fact, the latest statistic I read was that just less than 50% of those who are gay will change back to being heterosexual during their lives (I know several myself). Thus, I think it's a lot less difficult to break the circle.

Secondly, I do believe that homosexuals are slyly recruiting the young. In this PC age, we have become so anxious not to offend someone that we've set up the perfect scenario for gays to swell their ranks and increase their social standing. They're succeeding. Why? Because we've banned prayer in public schools. Because we've passed out condoms at school, saying sex is only harmless fun. Because we've given more rights to the minority than the majority possesses (hate crimes anyone?) Because we've tried to cut God and accountability for one's actions out of the picture.

Thirdly, I'd found an update to the 50% statistic. New latest is 34%, still much higher than heterosexual. And no, it doesn't matter if one's 18 and the other's 17.

Lastly, I'd like to remind everyone of the meaning of tolerance. It does not mean that we should let people do whatever they want without fear of contradiction. There are absolutes in this world; among them are gravity, life, death, taxes and morality.

Whew, I'll add my $0.02 to the pot.

I will concur with ScouterPaul on this issue. It seems as if there would be no problems combining the two packs and only having one troop. Two troops is a more serious commitment than the pastor et. al. probably know.

I hope everyone took the opportunity yesterday to pray, as our President has asked us to. It becomes apparent just by looking in the newspapers and in this forum that we have much to pray for. So fold those hands, and say a little prayer.

God bless America, and God bless the BSA to make the best decisions on every matter before them. Guide our leaders and make them an instrument of peace.

I don't thing you will find anyone in this forum who disagrees with the fact that the issue matters.

However, I would claim that admitting gays is a risk on the BSA's part, and a big one at that. Eisely earlier quoted a statistic that 50% or gays have had sex with a minor. That is an obscene total!! Even that alone should be enough to exclude or heavily limit gays from the organization.

Secondly, I believe the BSA does not allow gays because they fear the gay-rights activism that often follows. I would fear for the BSA if their name was tied to gay-rights activism, etc.

Thirdly, we are talking only about avowed homosexuals. These are people that are members of activist groups, or are at least intent on disseminating such material. Again, do we really want to let these people in? I don't think it would be a good business decision, for then we would be attacked on more sides claiming that we've turned left wing.

Lastly, one must see how little information there is on the subject. Little information about the homosexual condition is known. Almost none is definite. The BSA is being cautious here.

While it may not be morally right (which will be hotly debated), the BSA is circling the wagons so it can provide Scouting for as many as possible without losing a large portion of members who would quit if the BSA changed its policy.

There's something in the Venturing handbook about mechanical logcutters, etc. Can't remember what it is, if anyone has a venturing handbook check it out and tell us what it says, please.

I wish to make a slight clarification on Rooster7's comment on homosexuality in the Catholic Church.

"Per the teachings of the bible and the Catholic Church, homosexuality is a sin."

Here are a few quotes from the Catholic catechism regarding the subject:

2358. "The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. "

2359. "Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. "

2396. "Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices. "

The Catholic Church and I do not have any problem with homosexuals. It is when they act on their condition by activism, activities, speaking out, etc. that they lose their chastity (responsibility). Thus I have no problem with homosexuals being gay, I merely have a problem when they do anything with their choice.

2357.

"Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. "