SeattlePioneer

When Erich Severeid was a youth he and a friend did a 2250 mile canoe trip from Minneapolis to Hudson's Bay.  Still a fine book to read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canoeing_with_the_Cree

<<  It seems that many people in key leadership positions in the BSA, from district to National, don't like the outdoors.>>

Reviewing the new Cub Scout program,  it seems that pretty much every liberal social and political fad has been written into the new program.

"Enduring values"?  Hard to find.

<<In 2001, the Land of the Oneidas Council and General Herkimer Council merged forming the current council.>>

According to Wikipedia,  this isn't the first recent merger.

Wood Badge is overrated,  in my opinion.

<<My mom agrees with me and encourages me to try to make a change if possible.>> \

Sounds like she doesn't participate in the adult leadership of the troop.  Too bad  ---she is really the one who ought to be dealing with this issue,  not you.

Based on the facts as you relate them,  I'd shop around for another troop.

<<

How are y'all handling the swords, as far as the scouts go? We had small ones made of wood that our program director made and had them paint. Problem was, if anyone was even remotely seen as pointing it at someone or poking someone with it, they had it taken. I admit I apparently spaced out during training when that was covered but I don't even know why we had them there if that was a huge no no. Yes I realize you can't go around stabbing one another but...well, I'll hush, lol. Just curious how others are doing it. That's why we jousted with noodles >>

Swords are made from about 18" of 1/2" PVC pipe,  with hilt made of 3/4" wood with a 5/8" hole bored in it,  and screwed into the PVC to hold it in place.  The PVC pipe is covered with a layer of pipe insulation for padding and that is covered with a layer of aluminum foil  ("Cubs in SHINING" armor!)

Swords will not be issued to Cub Scouts  --- there is no way to stop them from fighting with each other.

Instead,  swords and lances will be considered stage props for activities such as skits and den pictures.

For jousting I have two "quintains"  (Google that if interested)  They are rotating targets boys can hit with a lance.

I've bought my iron on Ebay.

I once made a topographic map as part of a surveying class. Pretty neat.

We took the vertical angle and azimuth (X,Y and Z) and distance of various points we wanted to map.

From that information,  we could identify the X and Y coordinates and the elevation of those points.

From that you could make a straight line estimate of the elevation of any intermediate point,  and plot the topographic lines.

It's amazing how much information you could infer from a limited number of points, and by and large they were reasonably accurate for a lot of purposes.

<<

Actually they do.  According to the Guide to Advancement, no one can add, subject, or otherwise change the requirements.  You might be able to physically get badges and give them to the kids, but I'd be royally pissed if I was a parent of one of those kids.>>

Outside of Eagle awards,  I don't think anyone pays much attention to that. 

Were I to do it (I'm not)  I'd certainly let parents complete all the badge requirements on their own and be glad to award them their badge when they are done.

Unfortunately,  VERY FEW parents seem to work with their boys on Cub Scout achievements around here.  The Den Leader does it or it doesn't get done.

But I'm really not interested in sweeping back the incoming tide of liberal and environmental politics which has swamped the Cub Scout program. 

I'll continue to do things I'm interested in,  but not as a Den Leader.

1. Great ideas and pictures!

I especially liked the castle and the archery targets.

We have a volunteer who is going to be making a castle out of a 4x8 piece of plywood + some add on towers.  We'll be using that and swords and lances I made as props for skits.

The lances will also be used in our jousting competition  --- we have two "quintains"  for jousting which can be used in a variety of ways which should be fun.

<<I think the new basis of the American dream is social engineering and income re-distribution. The old American dream where one is left free to do what they want as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others has been dismantled by both parties over the last 20+ years.>>

I agree.  If you don't have a lobby to defend your interests  (the National Rifle Association being a prime example)   You will be run flat.

Poo cigarette smokers!   The liberals around here toy with them like a cat does a mouse.

I've been a Tiger Cub Den Leader the past eight years.

I have no plans to be a Den Leader again,  because I find the new program to be obnoxious.  WZAY too much detail,  and way too preachy.  Very light on fun activities for boys to do, as far as I'm concerned.

This morning I spent time trying to find the First Aid requirements in the new Wolf handbook.  I paged through the whole thing twice and found nothing.  I suppose there are First Aid requirements there,  but I couldn't find them.

My bias as a den leader would be to ignore the new program,  and decide on my own program.  Families would be free to follow the official program if they wish,  but I have no obligation to do so.   When I got through MY program,  boys who had been participating would get their badge.  BSA doesn't control who gets badges.

My prediction is that it's going to be a lot tougher to find den leaders with the new program, tougher to keep them,  and tougher yet for those den leaders to get through the official program,  which I'll bet a lot of boys will find boring and left liberal preachy.

I'll further bet that the new program will cause a noticeable  loss in Cub Scout membership. 

NOT a fan.

Personally I find that the ability to understand geographic features from a topographic map is one of the most valuable map reading skills. Takes some practice though. 

The key to staying oriented on a hike is to be constantly checking every map feature against the features you observe in the world.  I almost always know within a hundred feet or so of my location on a map.  It's fairly rare that I need to pull out a compass,  since a topo map usually has so many visual features that can be used to identify your location.

It's trickier when I'm out boating,  especially in fog.  That's when compass and piloting skills really count!

<<Andy's mom hit on this awhile back and everyone sorta blew past her. But I think it goes to the heart of the issue:

Why the hell are you doing a day hike in avalanche country?>>

Heck,  around here a spring hike in the mountains IS a hike into avalanche country.

<<But that's still not enough. The backpackers in the troop complain we don't hike far or fast enough. The climbers insist we climb Table Rock -- hell, I don't want to DRIVE up table rock! I know what Stosh is going to say, but these guys typically don't have the support in their patrols for this level of "adventure". Anytime someone brings up a big HA trip, the other three-quarters of the guys moan. It's not that we're not doing these activities -- we typically do one or two of each every year -- rather that for the climbing, shooting, backpacking or whitewater junkies it's never enough.

So my solution? GO DO IT YOURSELF!>>

If you are talking about high adventure,  you are talking about activities that involve the risk of DEATH or serious injury,  in my opinion.

A good many of the rock and ice climbers in the Pacific Northwest are veterans of demanding Scout programs. Jim Whittaker,  the first American to summit Mt Everest circa 1962 won his climbing spurs in Boy Scouts.

I again suggest that if you are talking about high adventure,  training merely leaves you a beginner in the field,  perhaps qualified to go on a easy high adventure activity,  but unqualified to lead such an activity.

Just as an example,  Kayak cruising on salt water is a popular activity around here,  but few people are experienced in what to do should their kayak be dumped.  You can't roll it upright and other untrained people aren't going to be of much help.  Throw in wind, waves and cold water temperatures, currents, rip tides and darkness  and you are in a desperate situation. Yet rank beginners go out cruising in kayaks quite commonly. 

One of the attractions of high adventure activities for leaders is that the decisions you make COUNT.  People are putting their lives in your hands.  Are they making a foolish decision by doing so,  or do you really know your stuff?

The first real accident is likely to separate the sheep from the goats on that issue.

For many years.  the Chief Seattle Council has had a series of effective Scout Executives who have provided effective leadership and kept the Council financially able to do the things that needed to be done.

My district has had a series of reasonably capable to excellent District Executives.  District volunteer leadership deteriorated over several years,  but has been rejuvenated with new leaders over the past year.

My only criticism is that the turnover of SE and DE has been more rapid than is really desirable.

But by and large,  the paid leadership has earned it's money.

Unfortunately,  "high adventure" is about stuff where there is a serious risk of death or serious injury if people don't make good decisions.

And you need to be able to make good decision on the fly,  when the ---- is hitting the fan.

If you are doing a canoe trip on a white water river,  what will you DO if a a  canoe gets caught in a sweeper and is overturned,  dumping boys in the water? 

What do you DO if you are out on a spring hike and you notice that avalanches are starting up in your area? 

What do you DO if you are on a winter snowshoe hike in windy,  20 degree weather and your youngest Boy Scout,  on his first outing with the troop,  is missing?

What do you DO?  And what might you have done to avoid the problem?

I again suggest that if you have extensive training but no experience in participating in outdoor adventures, let alone leading them,  you are best characterized as a beginner.  You are probably qualified to go along on such an outing,  but not to lead it.

<<

SeattlePioneer, on 11 Jun 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

My theory is that pack committee meetings and Roundtables should last no more than an hour.

And no chairs allowed.  Everyone has to stay standing.  Meeting's over when the first person leaves the room.>>

Heh, heh!

You are TOUGH!

<<Posted 11 June 2015 - 03:19 PM

<<

Before approving someone to lead a trip,  I would want an EXPERIENCED leader to assess the training and experience of the person proposing to lead the trip. That person is FAR better prepared to assess whether someone is ready to lead the trip than any number of required training courses.

This is what parents are saying before they send their sons on a trip and are hoping the SM and CC are "honest" in thier choice.

You are mainly a cub person, when one gets to Boy Scouts its not scout and parent, its scouts and leaders. if I'm sending my son on a trip no matter what type I am trusting the troop leaders to have the proper training to hopefully make sure that the time my son has is fun and challenging, but more then anything "SAFE">>

When I hired in as an AS in 1981,  and was promoted to SM a year later,  I had something like 3,000 miles of backpacking experience and modest amounts of glacier and rock climbing experience with the Seattle Mountaineers.  Also a goodly amount of snowshoeing, cross country skiing, and rowing experience, trips and camping.  I was 31 at the time.

You don't really need formal training to master any of these sports. Experience and reading is satisfactory,  in my view.

The Seattle Mountaineers has a whole series of classes available,  including their Basic Climbing and Intermediate climbing classes,  which are excellent.  But not really necessary if one goes out and does the necessary trips with experienced people who will teach you or you can learn from.

Our Cub Scout Day Camp is July 21-24.

Still have one activity that needs to be developed  --- our obstacle course,  which we want to include a Scouting style rope Monkey Bridge.

I have a Cub Pack with the materials needed for that,  but I need one or more experienced people to assemble it.

Today I e-mailed the five people on the District Pioneering Merit Badge list to see if I get any nibbles.

Just locked up a volunteer to put together our health/First Aid activity,  which will include practice with first aid kits the Red Cross is providing for each boy for no cost.

Heh, heh!

Subjecting the budding businessman in question to the tender mercies of the Internal Revenue Service ought to be a refreshing wake up call!

Training is fine.  I've taken a lot of it.  Some is good,  some is worthless.

EXPERIENCE is priceless!

Training without experience isn't worth much.  You are just a beginner.

Someone who has done a lot of an outdoor activity is likely an Xpert,  even if he has taken no formal training.

Everyone should have some kind of First Aid course,  but I wouldn't require a specific course. 

Before approving someone to lead a trip,  I would want an EXPERIENCED leader to assess the training and experience of the person proposing to lead the trip. That person is FAR better prepared to assess whether someone is ready to lead the trip than any number of required training courses.

<<I over the years have come to agree with you that burnout is the leading problem with struggling units, especially Cub packs. Cub Scouts is too long and too complicated for the average volunteer to manage. I say it again with capitals for emphasis: CUB SCOUTS IS WAY TOO COMPLICATED AND WAY TOO LONG FOR THE AVEAGE VOLUNTEER TO MANAGE.>>

I agree.

<<. But the main objective is for the scouts to have fun. For that to happen, the adults have to enjoy what they are doing. So we build around making the program as fun for the adults as it is for the scouts. >>

Another great Cub Scouting Truth!

I like to say that I encourage leaders to do things they are GOOD at doing, or things they WANT to do.

That tends to make for a good den or pack program,  in my experience.

<< This is not a fundraiser, it is a small entrepreneurial business that in fact be taken as income of which when donated to a troop for general funding of summer camp should just about offset any income on his taxes. >>

I'd bet the boy should be filling out a schedule C form for his business, and probably a regular income tax form.

He might owe payroll taxes on much of the money he and other boys earned.

Sounds to me like it's too big to ignore the tax implications.

1/4" plywood, 16x 24 inches.   A piece cut off the length of the shield is nailed on two pieces of 2x4 to form a handle.  The handle is nailed on the shield from the front,  then the front is covered with aluminum foil glued to the face of the shield.   Den names and numbers decorate the front of the shield,  and boys accumulate stickers as they complete various activities and competitions.

The boys get a plywood blank,  the plywood for the handle and the 2x4 standoffs.  They hammer the shield together then cover it with aluminum foil and decorate it as they please. This worked fine when I did it as a Tiger Cub den activity.

Shields will be used in our jousting competition and available for use in skits.

I'm imagining that these will be fun for boys to make and that they will grow attached to them as they display their "honors" on the shield as they win them. 

Personally,  I'm not big on most of BSA's Cub Scout bling.  It's too expensive and burdensome to attach to uniforms. We do a lot with stickers.

July 21-24 is the Day Camp.