SeattlePioneer

Thanks for posting the additional ways of including Tigers!

I suppose a lot of it is what you have experience with.  I like our two evening and one afternoon program.  The boys have a good time and it's easier on parents to attend,  I think.

I just went down and bought new den handbooks to give to den leaders.

Also new Den Leader Guides that presumably suggest prgram ideas.  One for each den level rather than the one package for all den levels that was available until recently.

Got a set of posters featuring the Scout Oath and Law which are replacing the Cub Scout Promise and Law of the Pack.

$111 for that.    Scouting is getting to be an expensive luxury.

A Cub Scout neckerchief and slide was about $18  --- $20 including sales tax around here.

I guess Cub Scout families have more money than they know what to do with,  although not the ones attending our recruiting night last night.

<<

congrats can you help me find a tiger den leader ?>>

Start by doing an effective job of spring recruiting.

Give those newly recruited boys a concerted opportunity to earn the Bobcat award in the weeks before school is out,  along with a couple of quality den meetings and a hike and hot dog roast.

By then you should have enough experience with the families to identify likely vol;unteers for Den Leader and other positions that need to be filled.

And you usually have to call and ask people to help with specific things.  Ask for volunteers and few will offer,  in my experience.

I might add that one of the Cubmasters I left a message for Sunday evening called me back this morning. He had a prospect to help with the Tiger Twilight Camp,  but with two people that's really filled.

So I asked him if his pack would take charge of building an obstacle course as a day camp activity.  He's going to check back and see if his pack will take on that task.

Excellent comments,  Barry!

An inexperienced DE and an inexperienced DC are bound to have problems. Unfortunately,  you may need to work with and support those people while they acquire experience in how to do their job.

As far as the nominating committee approach,  you can Google "District nominating committee to find out how that procedure works.

I've been fortunate in finding several new district volunteers in recent weeks.

A Den Leader who was unhappy with some elements of the Cub Scout Day Camp last year agreed to help organize the day camp program this year.  He agreed to be the Program Director!  The downside of that is that I felt constrained to assist him with that task,  since I don't think he knew what he was agreeing to do.  Do I qualify as an additional volunteer?

My original idea was to find someone else to organize the Tiger Twilight Camp held in conjunction witht the Cub Scout Day Camp.    The Cubmaster for the pack I volunteer with was interested in doing that,  which is great!

I like to find an assistant for someone taking a major job,  so I wanted to find an assistant for that new Tiger Twilight Camp Director.  I called Cubmasters in the district and found one who recommended a mom with a Kindergartener who is joining Cub Scouts this a spring (which the council encourages). She has no previous Cub Scout experience,  but since she will be working with an experienced Cub Scout leader,  that's not necessary. I called her last night and she was glad to agree to assist with the Tiger Twilight Camp.

I'll encouraage her to take the YPT and Tiger Den Leader Training and she should be well equipped to be the Tiger Den Leader for her pack in the fall as well.

THREE new district volunteers!

<<We wanted to do Pack neckerchiefs like the Troop in town does but were told NO WAY when the council found out>>

I think that's a splendid idea!

Just what did the council do?

Personally,  I cut out neckerchiefs from colorful bedsheets or other yard goods I get at thrift shops.

I iron and fold these neckerchiefs and package them in a baggie.

I also cut neckerchief slides out of tree limbs and then drill a hole through them.

When boys join the pack,  they get to choose the neckerchief and slide that appeals to them and we have a ceremony introducing boys to the packs and parents put the neckerchief and slide on their boy.

The idea is that boys are immedietely "in uniform,"  at no cost to parents.  Parents are welcome to buy more uniform parts when budget and boy interest suggests doing so  --- when completing the Bobcat award or as a Christmas or birthday present might be examples.

Personally,  I wear one of the neckerchiefs and slides I've cut out.  I've decorated them to make them pretty nifty looking.

I provide new  families with copies of a "Bobcat Handbook" they can use to complete Bobcat requirements and also use to start a Cub Scout scrap book.

I also provide parents with copies of the Tiger Cub requirements.  So parents can complete Tiger Cub achievements without buying the book if they wish.

I'm OPPOSED to making Scouting needlessly expensive!

I could come up with some choice remarks to make to any council person who wants to oppose me in my efforts to keep Cub Scouts affordable...

As Cubmaster,  I liked the following schedule for a typical month:

Den Meeting

Den Meeting Pack Meeting

Parent (Committee) Meeting

The current Cubmaster likes the following schedule:

Den Meeting

Parent Meeting

Den Meeting

Pack Meeting

Personally,  I think the first provides desireable continuity.  The second is probably easier on Den Leaders.

<<

What we have is a failing program  ---something I've been warning about for 16 months or so.  New district leadership is beginning to deal with that,  but effective leadership takes time to identify and gain experience. Hopefully your district leadership realizes that the district is more than the Boy Scout troops. That's my problem.

My current aim is to define and limit what I do and to inform district leadership of what they can expect from us.  THEY will have to deal with other leadership and planning issues.  I don't want to be drawn into being responsible for other failing leadership. Do the best you can and focus on day camp.. Remember, it takes time to turn things around. And make sure you get a successor who fully unerstands what is going on. My first successor as PD didn't, and set us back as a result.; Very frustrating, especially since unlike the CD, I gave him copies of EVERYTHING (emphasis) I did for 2 years. I essentially handed him a full program that the kids loved.

GOOD LUCK! (and that is me screaming at you with the nbest of intentions as I know the muck you are dealing with)>>

Thanks for the good ideas and good wishes!

We have Execellent new district leadership that has replaced leadership that was running down the district for several years.

They are working hard to turn things around,  but that's tough to do.   Doing the Day Camp Program Director job is my contribution to aiding their efforts,  but I can't do the Camp Director job too.

My plan is to keep the district Key 3 apprised of what is happening and making it clear what I can and cannot do.   They have the responsibility to pick up the ball at that point,  is my theory.

Of course,  just ignoring such problems until on the edge of disaster seems to be an all too often used method of dealing with such issues.  But I'm not going to be drawn into trying to fix a Camp Director who appears to be a no show for the seond consecutive year.

<<When I went to NCS, my camp was a dysfunctional one, despite having a CD for 20 years.>>

This suggests that the basic problem was poor choice of a Camp Director.

Yesterday my district had another scheduled Day Camp Staff Planning Meeting.   The only people who attended were myself and a Den Leader in my pack,  who are jointly doing the Program Director job.

We spent 2+ hours refining the program elements we expect to use,  and planning how to fill the holes we currently have in the program.  We dropped some things that we thought we could  do better with another activity (dropping proposed basket making for field sports,  for example.)

I'm e-mailing the DE and District Commissioner to keep them informed of leadership failures,  and to make them aware that my partner and I will NOT be filling in for absent leadership  ----we're already DOING that!

Deadlines to order t-shirts and such are coming up,  and I have no reason to believe anyone is going to do that.

Training for shooting sports is coming up ---and I'm not aware of anyone recruiting volunteers to take it.

And then there needed leadership for next year.  The current Camp Director is on their second year and should be replaced for next year.  That argues for having someone working for her THIS YEAR to start getting experience with the job.

What we have is a failing program  ---something I've been warning about for 16 months or so.  New district leadership is beginning to deal with that,  but effective leadership takes time to identify and gain experience.

My current aim is to define and limit what I do and to inform district leadership of what they can expect from us.  THEY will have to deal with other leadership and planning issues.  I don't want to be drawn into being responsible for other failing leadership.

<<My mother used to go back to the stores and complain about the poor quality of jeans they were selling because they shrunk so much in just one or two washes.   >>

Heh, heh!  Did she get her money back?

I cut up the debit card we got a couple of years ago when we changed banks.

On theb rare occasions when someone need to be fronted cash,  I write them a check for an appropriate amount and set up a Quicken account to track expenses against that when I get receipts.

As Treasurer,  I want people to turn in receipts for reimbursement promptly.  A debit card would do the reverse.  I might never get receipts.

It's not a matter of fearing that people will "steal" from the pack.  It's about maintaining effective controls and records so we know what's going on.

And it's not been an issue,  so far.   The cash advances have served that function when needed.

<<Yeah, some of these scenarios will result in a warm, camp school-certified body just hanging out at camp. But that's okay. Their job is to know policy and standards in case problems arise during camp and, frankly, to check the box that says we have someone here with the training and certification we're supposed to have. You have other volunteers who have been developing the program for months already.>>

I suggest that the proper qualification for leading a day camp is Cub Scout BALOO.

BSA has a bad habit of having unrealistically high standards for activities ---and then ignoring them when they prove to be unrealistically onerous.

One of my frequent complaints about BSA these days are that they make burdensome demands for a lot of administrative details that aren't especially important or needed.  That's fin if you are paying a staff to do them,  and unreasonable when you are making unneeded demands on volunteers.

Have VERY HIGH standards  ----then ignore them.

That's the BSA pattern I see all too often.

BSA is drowning in very complex administrative standards that are too tough for a volunteer run organization.

Yet it keeps getting worse and worse,  year by year.

<<

but I think the 1st year would work much better if a pack were to have a perpetual leader for that entry level den.

I always picture a retired school teacher that loves kids and just want to be involved, even if her own kid or grandkid isn't involved.

This grandmotherly lady would be able to help them to hit the ground running with a fun program

She already knows the drill. Knows the players.  Grounds them into the program.

she would be able to eliminate the stress on the parents of the push to recruit one of them as leader right away.

Let them ease into it....

and help to select and groom future leaders>>

Ummm....

I've been the Tiger Cub Den Leader for eight years now.

The advantages are just as you describe.   When I find an excellent event or activity,  I add it to the ones I recycle to a new group each year.

That works great.

But I still have a heavy amount of turnover.  Probably too many meetings for a lot of parents to be interested in attending.

<<

Have any packs experimented with splitting pack meetings by rank ?  I ask because some pack meetings do fine as big events.  But our pack might grow where we would have 25+ Lions and Tigers and then another 25+ Wolves, Bears and Webelos.   

>>

I'd try it if I had the numbers to support it,  which I don't.

I'd do Tigers-Wolves and Bears &Webelos,  and dump lyons.

I haven't done Lyons, nor would I try it for the reasons you describe.

Of course,  use your own judgment and experience,  not mine.

Seattle Pioneer

Heh, heh!

You are wise in the ways of Scouting, SSScout!

<<It's beyond me how a council allows a camp to proceed without properly trained staff. What other positions do they allow unqualified folks to fill? Range safety officer? Health officer? Program Director is more than den leader for a really big den. It's about knowing the national standard for CSDC and operating a safe camp. One of the primary standards is having the camp director and program director NCS certified.
>>

Well,  it's all very well rto REQUIRE volunteers to do stuff,  but what do you do if they don't do it?

As it happens,  my district had Program Director available to take the "required" training.

So what do you think happened  ---or ought to happen?

Cancel Cub Scout Day Camp? 

I invite speculation on that subject,  and I will reply with an update.  

<<Boy Scouts ... love ... paperwork!>>

BSA and a lot of councils are CHOKING volunteers with an unnecessarily complex adminstrative apparatus.

Sometimes I make a point of ignoring or undermining such bad practices by studied non compliance.

<<I have read that insignia intended for youth are not worn by adult members of the Boy Scouts of America, and I can agree with it for the most part with one exception...I would like to see those who earn the Eagle rank be allowed to wear the rank patch until they reach age 21.>>

19,  21.  Whatever.  Eagle Badge,  Life, First Class.

Let boys and young men take a measure of pride in their accomplishments.

At 21 perhaps I'd have a special ceremony to retire the Eagle Badge and replace it with the Eagle Knot,  Arrow of Light knot and any other knots a young man has earned by that time.

Bad district leadership CAN be changed!   There is a BSA procedure to do that.

Google "District nominating committee"  and study the information provided by BSA.

Just as Packs and Troops have to decide on their leadership each year,  so do districts.

The District Committee Chair is required to appoint a nominatin committee of Scouters each year,  and the council appoints one or more people to the committee.

The Nominating Committee then decides who will be eligible to be nominated when the Nominating Committee calls a District Annual Meeting and conducts a yes-or-no election on their choices for all elected district officers and Committee Chairs.

My district had leadership that was worn down,  worn out an ineffective,  but kept hanging on because they didn't see anyone else willing to serve.

When a nominating committee was finally appointed,  they found some excellent new leadership we are benefitting from,  and instead of being in a death spiral downward,  we are in a growth spiral upward.

As a Chartered Organization Rep,  I simply made the point at district meetings that a nominating committee was REQUIRED by BSA.  After a period of education as district leaders and volunteers took to understand the process,  the nominating committee was appointed and we are now in a much better position.

<<

Personally, i think it better to treat every campout as a backcountry trip, even knowing that most are really tailgate camping...

..... but why not use small tents, personal stoves, mess kits, etc....?>>

I agree.

This style of camping is something that boys can continue as they become adults.

Create a unique, "heavy" style of camping and they may never go camping again after they leave Scouting.

My council has done the same thing the past couple of years.

I suspect that a major motivation is to get units to pay membership fees to register boys,  although that's just speculation on my part.

You can order badges from Scout shops across the country if you wish  ---most don;t have such a requirement.

Personally,  I take grim pleasure at bypassing or ignoring BSA/Council paperwork which burdens volunteers for no very good reason.  Personally,  I think BSA and the council should eliminate all their advancement record keeping and leave issueing awards to units where it belongs.

Seattle Pioneer

I'm thinking about an attack Cub Dens could launch at day camp....

I have some 1.5x3 foot images of animals painted on plywood.  Perhaps they could be mounted so that attacking Cub Scouts could knock them over.

Orange traffic cones would have to be attacked and subdued by attacking Cub Scouts.

For a finale,  all the boys in a den would have to subdue a 4x8 foot plywood dragon.  Soaking it with buckets of water perhaps?  Or whatever.

Perhaps a second defending den would set up the obstacles before they got their chance to do the attack...

Still thinking about this one....

Hmmm...

I'm thinking of a man sized piñata that boys could raise,  lower and pull in different directions using ropes.  Another boy would "fight" the opponent and the opponent would be dropped to the ground when a good blow was struck.

I'll have to think about that some more....

<<Forgot to add that we had a knight's obstacle challenge course set up also.  Had to ride stick horse, lance thru moving hoop.>>

I built a "quintain"  for jousting practice at our last Tiger Den meeting. a 4x4 post buried uin the ground provided an upright post.

A rod was driven into the center of a post,  a a 2x4 36" long had a hole drilled in it to pass the rod from the post.

So you had the 2x4 rotating on top of the post.

Attach a couple of plywood "shields" as targets and one or two boys could "ride" towards the quintain with a lance to see if they could hit it and send it spinning.

We'll probably do something similar as a day camp activity.

<<I don't know where they got it, but they had to use their swords to slay a big inflatable dragon>>

I'd rather avoid having boys beat on each other with model swords.  Slaying the "dragon" sounds better.    But what to use for a dragon?  Maybe an adult in a costume?