sctmom

The requirements for Cub Scouts is based on age OR grade. Most packs I know of go by grade. LDS packs go strictly by age.

Tiger 7 years old or completed kindergarten

Wolf 8 years old or completed first grade

Bear 9 years old or completed second grade

Webelos 10 years old or completed third grade

Arrow of Light cannot be earned until 6 months AFTER turning 10 OR completing 4th grade.

My sons birthday is in July. Our school cut off date is the child must be 6 before or on September 1st the year he starts first grade.

So he was a 6 year old Tiger, 7 year old Wolf, 8 year old Bear and 9 year old Webelos.

I could have went by his age and he would have been 7 year old Tiger, 8 year old Wolf, 9 year old Bear and 10 year old Webelos. This would be the same for the boys his age that did kindergarten a year later or did it twice ( I know some of these boys).

The Cub Scout Leader book does a great job of explaining the flexibility of the program for boys who are held back a year in school. It also discusses what to do about boys with documented disabilities.

One great thing about Cubs is the flexibility of the program. An 9 year old third grader who is struggling in school may very well excel in Scouting as a BEAR (right where he should be).

Last year I had an 11 year old Webelos Scout that was in 5th grade but doing 1st grade level work. Webelos was just right for him. To place him on his school academic grade level (a Tiger) would have been terrible for him. He needed extra help with reading and writing, but he could understand what was going on. He loved being in Scouts. At the same time, he was not ready for Boy Scouts as an 11 year old. Our students move to middle school at the beginning of 6th grade. He fit in better with the Cubs because he saw them at school all day. Again, the wonderful flexibility of Cub Scouting!

The original post about a 9 year old 3rd grader someone is trying to sign up for Boy Scouts is amazing to me. Let me be blunt there is NO decision. The answer is NO! It doesnt matter if he has the piece of cloth with an arrow of light on it, he did not earn it. He has to wait until 6 months after he turns 10 or completes 4th grade. Sounds like the 6 months after 10 years old will come first. He must wait. He can visit meetings but he should not be part of the troop. Grandma can stay at home with him while his older brother goes camping with the troop. She doesnt have to go camping.

I would also be concerned about this Webelos Leader who thinks everything is just fine. What is this teaching the kids? We can bend the rules when we feel like it? While there is flexibility within Cub Scouting, there are a few hard and fast rules. The BSA has done a lot of research about ages and stages. They didnt just draw these ages out of a hat.

I get very irritated with adults who feel they and their children (grandchildren) are so special they dont have to follow the rules. Are you later going to give the younger boy a rank badge because his big brother earned it? Do they both get Eagle at the same time? Where does it stop????

Will someone give me hand getting off this soapbox?

Acco40, to address your example: the boys need to be in separate dens. The beauty of having all den meetings at the same time and place helps parents with more than one boy in Cubs.

He's a third grader!!!!!!!!!! So he just turned 9 in the last few months (I'm guessin here).

No way! I am a den leader for a group of 3rd graders. Some are very smart and mature, but they are not ready for Boy Scouts by a long shot. NO WAY should you let this child be a Boy Scout. I also speak on that as a mother of an 11 year old 6th grader.

Encourage the older boy to be a Boy Scout and have the younger boy wait until he meets the requirement. Even if they give him the AOL award, it is not legitimate and you know it. That would be dishonest to accept him based on a false AOL. What a disservice to the boy.

In the spirit of Scouting and being a good neighbor, could some of the parents work with the mother on carpooling the boys to the different meetings?

The joining requirements for Boy Scouts:

Meet age requirements: Be a boy who has completed the fifth grade, or is 11 years old, or has earned the Arrow of Light Award, but is under 18 years old.

The requirements to earn the AOL:

Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge.

If for some reason this 9 year old is in 5th grade, then possibly he has earned his AOL. This is not very common.

The Boy Scout handbook outlines the joining requirements. The 9 year old must wait to join, he needs his AOL or to be 11 years old.

Those are the rules. Boy Scouting is not able to meet the needs of a 9 year old. He needs to go be in Cub Scouts.

Sounds like lots of us had exciting weekends. I'm still buzzing from a great Blue & Gold. The first year that we did not hire outside entertainment. Our pack is pitiful about skits. But not this weekend! Every den did a skit or presentation. The ROTC came in, posted colors and did a couple of routines for us, including twirling a gun. One of the dads did his own comedy routine, he ad libs a lot and was great. Everyone was laughing and having a great time! Been a long time since I've seen our pack have so much fun.

Maybe someone who does silk screen transfers could do it. Check with someone who prints t-shirts for groups.

Have you considered making your own flag? Someone with a sewing machine could quickly hem a piece of material. You could have someone draw on it or use iron on type material to put the pack number and other info on there.

Isn't this also covered in G2SS?

Mark,

I've seen what you are talking about too. The leaders going "wow, a few more months and I'm done with this scouting stuff". I know leaders who at this time of year don't know when their Webelos will cross over, haven't done a troop visit yet, and aren't even sure if they are working on AOL or not.

I wish you lived near me! I'd love to have a troop that interested in our Webelos.

I want to say I have also seen #1 and #2 above from the Webelos side of things. The boys saw this great show on troop visit night. This show looked nothing like a real meeting we later found out. Also, while the boys were having fun, the parents were in another room talking and didn't see what they did. We asked the boys what they did and got the standard answer from a 10 year old --- "stuff".

Webelos Den Leaders are busy. It's hard to find more time to track down troops.

Would also be nice to give the Webelos Den Leaders some tips of "here are some things you might want to have your den doing so the transition will be easier". You know the stuff that is not in the books but someone who has been there can tell you about.

I can see that many Cub Scout leaders would not know what to do with a den chief. Especially the ones who don't or can't trust that this young boy can lead anything on his own. I'm not sure how to overcome that as I'm one of the adults who lets kids do things and I get on to the adults who but in.

Should have seen the look on the parents faces when I said the Bear Den WILL have a cookout this spring, the Bears will coook and the adults WILL eat what is cooked! LOL

I digress, sorry. Most den leaders will need a lot of guidance on how to use a den chief -- he can teach those Bears how to tie knots, he can lead games (oh, how I wish someone would do this for me, I'm horrible at the games), he can teach flag ceremonies. This is part of den leader training that is non-existent.

As a den leader I asked for a den chief a couple of years ago and was laughed at by a ASM. No way were any of the Boy Scouts wanting to be den chiefs.

My 11 year old is an "unofficial" den chief now with the den I have. Those 3rd graders look up to him. Wow, he's in 6th grade! He isn't much bigger physically but they know he is older and more mature. He enjoys it because they do look up to him. He has always enjoyed helping the younger scouts and is pretty good at it.

I think the den chief system benefits the Cubs and the Den Chief. The cubs are going to listen to someone closer to their age. It gets them used to going to another youth for help. I've seen that going to another youth instead of to an adult is a very hard transition for boys. It goes against everything they have been taught. This is a great way to bridge that gap.

Our district has an annual scout show. I don't know how many people show up that are not already in scouting. At least the Cubs can see the Troops and the Troops can see the Crews.

Ryon,

Do the adults know you have asthma and how the smoke affects you? There are putting you in serious danger.

I don't think they should smoke around any scouts but they really need to know that some people can NOT be around smoke due to medical problems.

Twocubdad said:

"But, sctmom, the problem there is not that they boys are working on a merit badge, per se, but that the entire troop is being shoe-horned into one activity. "

You are right, that is better description of what is happening.

I thought a boy's advancement through scouting was to be a personal one. That each boy advances at his own rate. My son is not as mature as other's his age. I know other boys have different interests than he does. When the academic type merit badges are done in troop meetings, my son isn't interested and doesn't really get it. I'm not saying that 11 year olds should not be allowed to work on those badges but that the ones who are ready for them should do them and let the others mature before doing it. I know my son and some of his friends are not ready to work on Eagle required badges. They just don't have the brain wiring to understand the concepts of some of those badges. I also know a few of the boys who DO understand it. I know one young man who became an Eagle in 7th grade. Recently talked to this boy, now in 8th grade, and it is easy to forget he is only 13/14 years old. He's an exception.

So how can you teach merit badges on a regular basis (especially academic ones) in troop meetings and run off some good scouts?

Bob White, Thanks for your postings.

I sit here and ponder which has the best end result....

my son enjoys scouting, summer camp, does a few merit badges that he is interested in with his buddies, maybe picks up a hobby or a career interest, gets some self confidence because he slept in a tent for a week in the rain, maybe one day decides he should go for Eagle, finds out what badges are required, gets frustrated working on some of those required badges, gives up, tries again? gets Eagle? doesn't get Eagle? .....

OR

the troop says "your goal is Eagle in 4 years, show up and you will be there". He never sets a goal for himself in those four years. He has some good times. He thinks "is being an Eagle one of those things that is good for you, like eating yucky vegetables?" Wonders why he is doing this..........

I have found this thread interesting and have taken some of the advice to apply to my own situation. It's a shame that troops like the one Dutch describes exist.

Now, KS, you know we can't take electronics on our campouts... tsk, tsk.

USSP has the changes! Those guys are good!

http://usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/boyscout/advchanges03.html

In another thread someone mentioned how we remember the teachers who pushed us the hardest. I wanted to share a memory I have of a few teachers who let some of us do something on our own.

When I was in the 5th grade (10 or 11 years old), due to a series of events, a handful of us kids were left in the classroom with the teacher while everyone else watched the high school drama club do a one act play. We had all seen it the night before because our siblings were in it. The teacher made some remark about how why didn't we do our own play. What? We can do that? So, we did.

We wrote our own scripts (a who-dunnit), practiced during morning break time and at lunch, designed our own simple set, improvised for props, etc. We later performed for a few other classes. It was such a hit, we did sequels. Another class talked their teacher into letting them do the same thing. They did a sci-fi play complete with "crashing" spaceship (rock back and forth in your chairs). The teachers trusted us enough to let us use an empty classroom to have meetings during class time. Wow, were we grown up or What? The feeling of power was great! We never played around or goofed off during that time because we had been trusted to do the right thing. Our little drama club lasted over a year.

I had not thought much about it until my son moved to Boy Scouts about a year ago. One day I sat down and thought "what was I doing at his age?" and boom I remembered the plays. I remembered the great feeling of being trusted. That was also the year the whole class was involved in a play about Robin Hood. Again the teacher let us write the script, do the simple scenery, come up with our own costumes, and find our own props. These were probably the worst plays ever done but we learned so much, worked so hard, and were so proud of what we had done.

When I start to have my cubs or my son do something on their own, I think "what is the worst that can happen?" and then decide if I should do more for them. If there is a true safety issue, I step in. If it means we will eat burnt toast, oh well, so be it.

Talking to my son about the possibility of a new troop where the boys will decide what to do and when to work on merit badges, I see him stand taller, a gleam in his eye and am hearing wonderful ideas of what he wants to do. "Mom, can we do something like junkyard wars? Mom, can we have some of that stuff in the garage? Mom, can I have that wood over there to build something with? Can we visit a junkyard? You mean there IS an aviation badge and an engineering badge?"

This from the boy who over the past year has never asked about a single merit badge is asking about merit badges.

Oh, one troop is trying to teach the Personal Management merit badge to the 6th graders in troop meeetings. Sorry, I don't get that. I know my 6th grader is not ready for it. Let the ones who are ready for it, work on it outside of the troop meetings.

Sorry this is so long.

Dutch, wished you lived near me so our sons could have the troop they want and need.

Check out the latest Cub Scout Leader handbook. There is ONE meeting for committee members AND den leaders. It is NOT 2 different meetings.

"Before you say it we now know that we should have looked at this troop closer before joining. We do know a lot of parents that have boys in this troop. We talked to several of them before and after joining. Most seemed very happy with it. Now we realize that they also want the easy way out for their sons and as parents want to do as little as possible. "

I can relate to that statement. I have found the same things with most parents. Most just seem to accept "this is the way it is done" and move on.

Even though the troop my son joined was not as bad as the one described here. I also see the merit badge class mentality as norm around here. Everyone in the district and council knows who does it and tells them to stop, but they don't. The parents and other adults seem to think it is just fine to have troop meetings be merit badge classes, especially for Eagle Required badges. It would be different if the boys were asking for speakers to come in and help with them with scout skills or specific badges they wanted. This is why my son hasn't been to a troop meeting in months.

BOYSOFMINE, you did not hit my nerve, acco40 did.

I admire people like you. One of our den leaders has 3 kids and her husband is a firefighter. She has her hands full staying at home and having her husband work different shifts. She volunteers with the pack, the school, and the church. Also, the boys play soccer and football (the ones that are old enough). I'm not sure I could do what she does. We each have our own talents.

Acco40, I have a newsflash for you....My child does NEED a house to live in. Even when I was married, it took 2 salaries to have a house in a reasonable neighborhood, 2 cars that ran, medical insurance, and food. I live off my salary now that I am single. Luckily my salary went up about time I got divorced. I had to work when I was married because my hubby didn't seem able to keep a job more than 2 years in a row. I still live in a neighborhood that is below my co-worker's standards of "nice". My microwave oven is 13 years old, my cable tv is about the extent of our "entertainment", my cell phone sure comes in handy when someone needs to reach me because my child is sick or hurt, and the company I work for pays for my DSL. So, before you criticize every working woman how about taking into consideration it is not always about life styles.

I'll get off MY soapbox now. Yes, you did hit a nerve!

Back to the issue of younger kids in Scouting. Our pack does everything family oriented. The little ones don't necessarily do the exact same thing as the Cubs during den meetings but they are included. We want parents to stay for meetings. Pack meeting games are always chosen with the younger siblings in mind. I only have one child but one of the best things I like about our pack is practically everything is for the whole family. Who the heck can afford a babysitter? Then who can FIND a babysitter.