sctmom

http://www.tecumsehcouncilbsa.org/CSfaststart.htm

That will take you to a link that goes to the National BSA Fast Start training online.

I think the kids adjusted much quicker than the adults. Even the teenage girls started having fun.

They've been back home for a year now. I'd love to hear about what they think now, after a year. I know the one couple got divorced. The frontier life brought out some things about the wife that made a marriage difficult to say the least.

This show isn't about Scouting but I wondered how many Scouts and Scouters watched this show in some amazement --- Frontier House. It was shown on PBS starting back in the spring. I just saw it this week when the local PBS station was running a marathon of it.

They take 3 families and put them in Montana for 5 months. They must live like it is 1883 and they are setting up a homestead. Everything they have is authentic to the period. One young man is about to get married. One family has 2 kids and does pretty well but begins to argue A LOT. The other family is from Los Angeles and complains about everything! The teenage girls from Los Angeles and their mother are very upset over no makeup and more shocked about bathing, etc.

They are cooking over open wood fires, learning to chop wood, using dutch ovens, tending to farm animals, etc. They have to prepare for winter. The start in June and must live there for 5 months.

There were times while watching it that I couldn't help but laugh and think about what other campers and Scouters would say. Have any of you seen this show?

There is NO BSA policy on this.

Pack2, you've got it right. There are a few things like making masks and art that are electives that can be done more than once and counted each time. It's great if Johnny goes to the zoo a lot, but only one trip can be counted toward his Bear Badge or as an elective.

I found it best to not try to figure out what achievements to count as an elective until AFTER the Bear badge has been awarded.

Often by the time a boy receives his Bear badge he does have enough electives to also receive his gold arrow point. He can receive both in the same ceremony. He can work on electives before receiving his Bear Badge but just can't receive the arrow points until he has the Bear.

Glad to hear your son got his cards back, while still learning an important lesson in life.

I'd be leary of a troop that doesn't want you to look around. Are they afraid you will see something better?

Selecting a troop is up to each boy and his family. The few Scoutmasters I have dealt with usually say they WANT the Webelos to look at other troops. Their main concern is that the boy stays in scouting somewhere. If it is not a good fit, then the boy will just drop out.

I encourage Webelos to visit troops as a den and as individuals.

As someone else said, it's a lot like dating. The troops need to be courting the Webelos and not afraid of the competition.

The new program is Character Connections. There is a chapter in the new Cub Leader book about it. There is mention of it in the program helps. I think the Tiger handbook talks about it. Perhaps there will be new Wolf, Bear and Webelos books in the next year or two that also include information about it.

The following was taken from United Way websites. You might want to check out your local United Way organization for more details about what they do and don't do. Same for Planned Parenthood.

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United Way of Metropolitan Atlanta funds three local Boy Scout councils, with 2002-03 funding totaling $1.91 million.

United Way is a volunteer-led, volunteer-driven organization representing our entire region. From the board of directors to fund raising volunteers and the thousands of others who lend a hand each year, volunteer leaders ensure United Way continues to help metro Atlanta make impact on the issues that matter most.

United Way is a system of 1,400 separately incorporated, independent organizations. Each raises money in an annual fund-raising campaign and allocates funds to local health and human service agencies.

Action taken by the volunteer board of any local United Way has no bearing on any other United Way or Boy Scout Council across the country. United Way of America as the national membership service and training organization for local United Way organizations, does not dictate policy or funding decisions to local United Ways except to the extent that funding decisions must be consistent with applicable laws.

United Ways ensure that each organization in which they invest is a non-profit, tax-exempt charity governed by volunteers, and that it submits to an annual, independent financial audit, provides services at a reasonable cost, and maintains a policy of non-discrimination.

Abortion is not funded through United Way of Metropolitan Atlanta. No community-fund dollars are used to perform abortions. United Way funds the Planned Parenthood Association of the Atlanta area, which provides education, contraceptive and gynecological services for women in need. They do not provide abortion services, nor do they make recommendations for abortion. They have no financial interest in any abortion clinic.

United Way and Planned Parenthood

Pro-choice and anti-abortion advocates in all parts of the country have tried to make the abortion issue a United Way issue. United Ways have taken a position of neutrality on this divisive issue because we do not want any single issue to overshadow our mission "to increase the capacity of people to care for one another."

No United Way funds are currently used, or have ever been used to support abortion services.

Several United Way member agencies provide professional family and individual counseling services which include professional counseling on pregnancy-related problems.

Each agency encourages clients to make well-informed decisions.

Do community-based United Ways support abortion?

No local United Way funds are currently used, or have been used to support abortion services.

What Planned Parenthood programs/services are local United Ways supporting?

United Way funded programs through Planned Parenthood include community health maintenance, e.g. communicable disease prevention; medical care service; family planning; health education; public awareness services; and family preservation and strengthening services, e.g. counseling and family life education.

Do community-based United Ways provide funds to Planned Parenthood?

Nationally in 1999, local United Ways distributed an estimated $3 million to Planned Parenthood agencies. In 2000-2001, United Way organizations collectively raised $3.91 billion. Less than one percent of total funds are distributed to Planned Parenthood. Of that total, approximately one third of these dollars were donor designated to the agency by individuals.

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Since Planned Parenthood doesn't provide abortions, has no financial interest in abortion clinics and is a non-profit organization, HOW can they be "making money" off of abortions?

K9gold,

Why didn't they just tell him the truth, that BSA has a policy against avowed gays?

Rooster and Scoutparent,

People who don't want their money to go to BSA because of the homosexual policy are also standing up for what they believe in. The causes may be different, but the basic motivation is the same --- it is what you each believe in as "right".

Scoutparent,

Where did you get the statistic of crime going up 80% in areas where porn stores open up?

I live in a major metropolation area. There is an "adult" store in the downtown area. They were getting so many customers from one of the richest suburbs they decided to open a store up in the suburb. I worked in that suburb for years before and after the store opened. I NEVER heard any statistics or news of the crime rate going up in that area. Housing prices continue to rise to unbelievable amounts.

OGE,

Seems that I have heard of reports of rapists having porn, usually when it is a horrible case of torture or a serial rapists.

As someone else said, all pedophiles may have porn but not everyone who has porn is a pedophile or other type of criminal. Just like owning a gun doesn't make you go shoot people, owning pornography doesn't make you commit sex crimes. It may contribute to them acting out their fantasies, but these people are sick already.

If United Way quit funding all the "liberal" causes, would you then donate through them?

My point is that many of you would be very, very happy is Planned Parenthood was completely abolished. You would not see that as dictating your standards in any way. But asking BSA to change a policy is seen as dictating.

It can't be both ways. If you don't like United Way, then don't donate through them.

I choose to donate to them. I also am VERY glad the days of corporate arm twisting are over! I had a co-worker who choose not to donate. A few months later, much to his surprise, his paycheck showed a contribution to United Way. He finally got the contribution card in his hand and realized someone had changed it after he signed it. He got the contribution stopped. The next year he scribbled all over parts of the card to make sure they could not change it. Now days we do it electronically.

Forcing people to donate is WRONG! None of us know what others donate in time and money on their own. Also, we do not know everyone's family situation.

Kwc,

I think your son did learn a valuable lesson the hard way. You should be very proud that he related the incident to the Scout Oath and Law. I think you said he is pretty new to Scouts. That makes it even more special. Some boys who have been in scouts for years would never make such a connection. Some adults would never make such a connection.

Be sure to tell your son you are proud of the way he has been brave and handled things. Also, that you are proud he understands the Scout Oath and Law, and that he takes them seriously. I'm sure your love and approval will make up for the lost cards.

Kudos to both of you.

Ed,

I think most of us agree with you but some don't. Some people look for "little signs" such as the kid saying "I didn't eat supper" or "I didn't take a bath last night" or "daddy hit me" and blow it out of proportion. That is the problem with "zero tolerance" type rules in some cases. An accusation can be made by anyone and stay on your record even if you are not guilty. Your neighbor can get mad at you over something trivial and decide to report you as a child abuser because they heard your child screaming.

When my child was about 3 years old he starting crying in the mall. My husband and I were juggling packages and the ice creams we just bought, trying to calm him down and figure out what was suddenly wrong. A lady come up and started yelling at us, saying "did you hit that child? he sounds like you hit him!"

We really thought she was going to get the cops. Why was he crying? We said he wanted an ice cream, we got him one. He really wanted a milk shake, but he didn't know the words for it and his grandparents had been calling milk shakes "ice cream".

Things aren't always as they appear.

The article doesn't answer an important question. Would the background check have caught this guy?

I'm all for the background checks to weed out anyone with sex crimes in the past. This guy needs to be kept away from children and needs some serious help. Can people who commit sex crimes ever really be "cured"?

I think other threads have addressed the issues of what about the person with a drug or violence conviction 20 years ago and nothing else on their record. A friend was telling me about her sister's new boyfriend (40-ish year old man). The man has a past history of domestic violence and served some time for some other crime. Yet, during his prison stay he learned about controlling his anger and how to control his life. He served his time and now is a calm person who holds down a steady job and shows no signs of domestic violence. I think we may all know people like this. The ones who really did learn from their mistake and turn their life around. Are we going to lose good volunteers because of this?

Also, someone else mentioned than even accusations can show up on your background check. If your neighbor gets mad at you, then can report you to Children Services and say you abuse your children. That can show up on background checks for jobs. If Children Services contacts you, they will probably explain the situation they are investigating but I've heard they don't have to. They do NOT tell you who called them. I've heard of some people never knowing there was a report until it shows up on a job background check.

My son decided one time that he could get attention by telling the school counselor that his father made him go to bed without supper the night before. I got a visit from Children Services, even though we were divorced at the time. The report was on both of us. Finally pieced things back together. The boy had eaten supper that night. Children Services dropped the whole thing as a misunderstanding. My son learned that he could get attention by saying "dad didn't feed me". Finally got him to understand "dad didn't feed me" and "I refused to eat what dad fixed" were two different things! And being fed something you don't like is NOT child abuse!

Scoutnut, I not only allowed my Webelos to work on things at home, but highly encouraged them. None of them did it. None of the parents tried to say they did it. If they were to build something I encouraged them to bring it in. I was willing to take their parent's word that it was done. I never have had to deal with the parents who pencil whipped everything. This is my 3rd year as a Cub Scout leader, with my second den. This time I have parents who are involved with their sons but are just becoming aware of what fun stuff is in the Bear Cub Scout book.

My plan for the transition to Webelos is to talk to the parents and boys in the spring about how the Webelos program works. Reminding them throughout the Webelos program how it works. Pointing out the activity badges that are best done at home --- Fitness and Family Member especially. Discussing over and over with the parents the importance of having the boy meet the requirements. If they take swimming lessons, having the instructor sign off on the book. Discussing with the parents the importance of the boys learning to work with other adults, how this helps them in Boy Scouts.

The parents I have in the den now, I think will understand. I'm fortunate to have a good set of parents this time. Parents who really want their children to learn and have fun. I also plan on having each parent sign up as activity badge counselors.

Having someone take a picture of me doing an activity is not that hard. Mention the word "journal" around some kids and they run in the other direction. How do you deal with the kid who will not/can not write? Do you allow the parents to do the actual writing?

Scoutnut,

If the requirements say "show" then that is all the boy has to do. If they must keep a journal you just added a requirement. This falls into the same discussions in Boy Scouts about retesting for things done at summer camp or making a boy tie a knot 5 times. Unless the requirement says "write", you can't MAKE him do it.

Apparently you have run across the boys who can't write well at that age. My son struggles with writing and will quit anything if someone says he must write a lot. I also had a boy in my Webelos den that was on a first grade level when it came to school work. I'm not sure he could write a complete sentence without a lot of help and a lot of time.

We have the Webelos I do the Blue and Gold. They've been around long enough to know what the Blue and Gold is and they will still be there next year if questions need to be asked.

Kassie, You need a copy of the Webelos Leader Handbook. It lays out every meeting for each of the activity badges for Webelos. There are also many sources online. Look at www.cubmaster.org for Baloo's Bugle (monthly newsletter with a section dedicated to Webelos). Also, look at the Pow Wow books on www.macscouter.com.

Be careful of things like requiring the boys to write in a journal what they did. That is adding to the requirements --- a no-no. I have heard of people saying have someone take a picture of the boy doing the requirement. Makes a great way for the boy to show the den leader and the rest of the den (maybe will inspire others). Also, the picture can go in a scrapbook for the boy.

Just explain to the parents that you must sign off on the requirements. The parents should be helping the boys with things like learning the promise, etc. but you have final say.

Our local food pantry also asks for grocery bags. I would have never thought about it, but they run out of bags to give the food in. We collected canned goods and plastic bags at our November pack meeting. I'm thinking we should start doing this every pack meeting. All I asked was one can and as many bags as you could afford. You never know who in your pack may be receiving from these places and can't afford to give a lot. The grocery bags don't cost the families any money.

Let's play "what if" ---

What if you pass the background check and THEN you commit a crime but don't serve jail time? Would you know this happened to the other volunteers in your unit?

In a small town, likely. Where I live, the other leaders could be convicted of crimes that I would never know of.

NJ, You are right that a lot of choosing a "different" belief system is about rebellion. My sister has been rebellious for as long as I can remember and hear she was rebellious at a year old. She is in her mid-40's and still has the teenager love/hate thing going on with our parents. The part that upsets me the most is that she still harbors a LOT of anger about the churches we attended as a child and about our parents. If you heard the two of us talk about our childhood you would think we grew up in completely different families, even though we are only 5 years apart. The churches we attended as children were not that oppresive. They are not the type I choose today, but they were not beating us or anything like that.

My sister has always identified herself with one persecuted group after another (except Christians and Jews). Got to say she got it honest though, our family has a slew of underdog fighters for various "causes". We joke about the family soapbox that was handed down to us.

When I returned home from a few days away and found the water line to my fridge spraying water, I went for the duct tape. I was able to pinch the line and hold the "pinch" with duct tape until a more permanent fix can be made.

I do not believe the only way to heaven is to accept Jesus as savior. If you think that means I'm not a Christian, then so be it. I think believing in Jesus and trying to live by his teachings is ONE way to eternal life.

My sister knows as much about the Bible as I do. I do not have to warn her.

We had an uncle who died a few years ago. He was a Methodist minister for many years. Well respected in his community and churches. He never tried to "save" any of us. I'm sure he prayed for us. He would travel all day to pray with my sister's dying husband. He never pushed my sister to become saved at that time. He knew some about my sister's beliefs before he died.

The other very religious person in our family was our Granny, who passe away last year. She knew a lot about what my sister believed and didn't believed. They talked a lot. Granny was a Baptist through and through. Never "warned" my sister. I believe Granny read her Bible every day. She loved hymns, to go to church, and hear about God's word. The most evanglizing she ever did was to say "Try to come to church with us one day." That was it.

Those two people said more about being a Christian without a single word of "warning". I hope to lead my life like them.

Do I agree with everything my sister says? No. Often when she talks about Christians she is just as intolerant as she claims Christians are. She is also lumping ALL Christians into one narrow group. I think just from the few people that post on this board we see that Christians have many different personalities, attitudes, and actions.

Do I think I have all the answers about religion? Heck, no. Not at all. I'm always trying to learn and improve, as I hope most people are.

This has been an interesting conversation. Thank you all. Now, on to something else.

By the way, about the SpiralScouts badges, did you see those that are shaped like triangles? They look a lot like Brownie Girl Scouts "Try It" badges. Strange.

Ironically, that hooded robe thing made me think of a monk or a friar.