sctmom

Anybody got ideas for a yell for the Wolverines?

I can't seem to find out what kind of noise Wolverines make.

My Webelos are now the Wolverines --- they may be small but can scare a grizzly bear. :-)

My son is ADHD, but better when taking a medicine called Adderall. He is 10, 5th grade, will be crossing over next spring to a troop. I struggle constantly with the immaturity.

When you say he is "thick skinned", this is common with ADD. They don't pick up on the social clues. They do try hard, but that effort often goes away quickly. The parents may be just worn out from trying to deal with this. Remember this happens 24 hours a day for them, including school - which is not as accomodating as Scouting.

The father may be laughing it off because he doesn't know what to do or he may be ADD himself and not know it.

Yes, People with ADD often are close to genius level.

One suggestion to keep the wandering down is to let the boy have something in his hands to fiddle with quietly. Please do not give up on him. Try to get his parents involved. Talk to the troop committee and assistant scoutmasters to see if someone will take him under their wing. The consistency is VERY important to a boy like this. Try to sit him with his back to the toy area. Don't just give him credit if it is not earned. He needs to the structure and the goals. My son has done best with teachers that calmly and quickly state the goals, always using the same wording each time. You will have to tell him things over and over and over and over. Be to the point in giving directions. Usually these kids love anything "hands on".

Please do not give up on him. If he's attending every week, he really wants to be there. You may want to check out some books about ADD behavior. Look at the techniques used for kids under 10 and those over 10 (their are different approaches based on age). One good book is written by a guy named Russell Barkley. I think a new edition just came out, I can't remember the name. Ask the parents if they have any books or guidelines about dealing with his behavior. School counselors may also be able to help you. And as someone else mentioned there are some great articles on the web and in magazines.

Please do not give up on him. If he's attending every week, he really wants to be there.

I have a friend who is homosexual. Would I trust him around my son? YES. He is not a pedophile, he is not a threat. Also most people who work with him have no idea about his personal life. He is disgusted by the gays on TV that flaunt around in parades dressed strange. Also, he did not "choose" this lifestyle. He would like to have the love of a family -- wife and kids, but he cannot and will not. He knows this hurts his parents who will never have grandchildren.

Not all gays agree with or behave like those you see in the spotlight. This is true for many groups.

You may believe "science" hasn't proven it is born in people, but talk to a few gays, really listen to them. Did they choose to be the target for physical abuse and verbal abuse? Did they choose to not have the "normal" lifestyle that our society places a high value on? Did they choose to do this to be outcast from their families? Sure, they may be some who "choose" to participate in certain activities thinking it is a substitute for love or because they have other emotional problems, but I think you will find that most are not that way. Most are not a threat to our children. There is no "gay agenda" to take over Scouting or our youth.

They no more choose to be gay, than we choose how tall or short we are.

If the behavior is truly dangerous to our children, then a person should not be a scout leader. I know you all will say it is dangerous to their morals. I think smoking is dangerous to our children, but I can't get smokers banned from being leaders. Or can I?

I believe that each scout unit should have the right to deal with the issue individually.

If the homosexual is running around camping explaining to the boys how great his sex life is, I want him removed. The same as I want the heterosexual removed that tells what he did with his wife the night before.

By the way, you guys may find this interesting. Read on another bulletin board that a mother pulled her girl out of Girl Scouts because they DON'T have the same policy as BSA.

You might find someone with an embroderiery machine that could put the emblem on the blank patches. There are companies that do the embroderiery on T-shirts. Also, some people who sew or quilt have such machines. Find local fabric stores and quilt shops.

Our Council does do a Webelos only weekend at the local Boy Scout camp. Webelos attend with their parent(s). They participated in some scout skills activities. It was a lot of fun for everyone. The Boy Scouts ran the different stations.

My concern is a Camporee that is targeted at Boy Scouts. The Boy Scouts troops are there to compete against each other. Is the Webelos Den their focus?

My understanding of the Webelos camping is that they should never spend the night at a Boy Scout camporee. They should only camp with the troop when the den is the focus of the troop.

How much leeway does a district or council have in changing this rule? Our district and council seem to allow and highly encourage Webelos to go to Boy Scout camporees, and to participate in the competitions. The Webelos compete against Webelos, but these are still events planned around Boy Scout skills.

I wish more men would step forward too. I have yet to determine my role when my son crosses over to Boy Scouting. I do not want to accompany my son on every camping trip. He does need male leadership and example. Unfortunately, his father does not give him that, and he sees few male school teachers. I'll be the first to tell you that children can push mom's buttons very quickly and respond differently to a male role model. As a female and a parent of a boy, I think Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts should remain separate -- It is best for each. We ARE different and we should acknowledge and celebrate those differences. I can't tell my son what it feels like to be a teenage boy.

My comment about focusing too much on the sexuality issue was more about I'm afraid some people may ONLY look at a person's sexual preference, assuming that if they are heterosexual then they are ok. (I don't think anyone on this discussion board does that.) We also have to look at other attitudes and behaviors. There is a LOT to being a good role model and leader of young men. We should look at all qualities of leadership with the same passion we do this one issue.

I'm glad this discussion board exists, a place for logical and intelligent discussion. You guys make me think! :-)

Even though I do not agree with the BSA policy, I do agree with the BSA's right as a private organization to choose their members. I think much of the disagreement in thinking revolves around if you believe homosexuality is a choice or is born within people.

From what I've heard, this is not a new issue in BSA. My mother said that over 40 years ago there was a big hoopla in a local scout troop about homosexual leaders. I do have to wonder how much was real and how much imagined since it was assumed that all young unmarried adult men with no sons that wanted to be in scouts at the time were assumed to be "in for the wrong reason". I hope that such "witch hunts" are not happening today.

There are many situations that make a person unfit for youth leadership. I hope that heterosexuals are not boasting of their personal behaviors in front of the boys, even the married leaders should not discuss what happens in their bedrooms. I also hope that parents and leaders are not focusing so hard on the sexuality issue that we overlook the whole person in determining if they are fit to be a leader.

I know I will not change your minds on this issue, but am glad I can express my opinion and I do respect your opinion. I can understand the problems that would arise if a 11 year old sees his leader in a news article boasting about immoral behavior. Children this age are do not have the life experiences to know how to handle this. Many adults do not know how to respond to this. I also have to stop and decide is this a person I want to associate with, do I agree or disagree, what is the price for agreeing or disagreeing. It's hard to figure these things out as an adult.

Not so many years ago some of us would not be allowed to be leaders for many reasons --- gender, race, religious affiliation, marital status, etc.

I agree that BSA representatives would have felt outnumbered at this.

The article DOES give the background of some of the participants (former scoutmaster, pastor). I do not believe for a second that this group or most who oppose the BSA's discrimination policy is trying to "kill BSA".

I do not agree with the policy, yet I am a registered Cub Scout leader and will encourage my son to continue to be in Scouting. I do not agree with all tactics that are being used to change the policy. I hate to see some troops are being forced out of meeting places because of this issue. I hate to see troops disolved because of this issue. I also hate to see good scout leaders kicked out for an issue that does not impact their ability to teach the scouting aims to my son. As my son gets older, I will discuss my views with him, teach him to respect the views of others, and talk to him about how to change policies you don't agree with (don't throw the baby out with the bathwater). If another scout approaches me about this issue, I will refer them to their parents and clergy.

Personally, I'm much more concerned with the negative attitude, bullying, and non-Scout like behaviors I see at my local District level. Adult leaders that smoke at troop meetings, curse in front of the boys, bully the boys. By the way, these leaders are also the ones who train new Scoutmasters in our District. I've been told things like "boys put up the adult's tents and get up early to fix the scoutmaster's coffee". I don't care about their personal sex lives at this point, I am trying to figure out why they go completely against ALL of the aims and methods of Scouting.

I have read many of the discussions about very young Eagle scouts, the reasons behind it and the effects of it.

My 10 year old son made a comment this weekend that makes me stop and think about the message he is receiving from me and all of society. He will be crossing over to Boy Scouts in March. We were talking about Boy Scout merit badges and I mentioned that at first you focus more on the rank advancements than on merit badges. His response was "I want to work on the merit badges first and then I can finish quicker."

Yes, I immediately talked about how the important thing is being involved in Scouts, not "finishing quicker". It reminded me of his 9 year old friend last year who said "when I get my Eagle, I'm quitting."

I know some of what they said is based on not understanding the process of becoming an Eagle. Yet, it really shows that many boys go into scouting with this attitude of "got to finish first and then move on."

It seems as though this is a much bigger issue than just parents wanting an Eagle or troop leaders wanting an Eagle factory. The boys are learning this early in life and from many directions.

I'm asking myself "how do we deal with this as parents, scout leaders and citizens?"

Any comments?

I know the summer camps in this area allow for "provisional campers" -- boys who come alone to summer camp. I think that might be an option for any boys who REALLY want to go to camp.

Also, not trying to throw cold water on your idea but not EVERYONE uses coupons. I do not deal with them, too much trouble. There is a local radio host in my area that is very well known for how to save money, his show is about consumer advice. He will drive 30 miles out of his way to save a penny on a gallon of gas, but he does not recommend using grocery coupons. The cost has to be made up somewhere, and it is! The items are just priced higher. The manufacturers would do better to just lower the prices. Also, my time is valuable. Do I really want to spend 1 hour a week to save $5? Not at this point in my life.

Just offering a different view. I would rather buy popcorn and cookies!

My two cents worth......

As a Webelos Leader, and a mom of a soon to be Boy Scout, I don't want my son to rush through his Boy Scout ranks. I want him scouting for the activities and learning. Getting a rank should not be just another item checked off the list of things to do. I have reviewed the Boy Scout merit badges and rank requirements a lot lately. I don't see any sense in rushing them through this. I have had one scoutmaster say that if the boy is active in that troop he will reach Eagle by the time he is 14. What then? Will getting Palms be as impressive to the boy? I understand the theory of "fumes" (perfumes and car fumes). It seems to be if he already has his Eagle, was rushed through without the fun part, the fumes will be even MORE enticing. I once heard a phrase used by some 12-step program that I like -- "Progress not perfection."

I have some new Webelos in our Second Year Webelos den. Will they earn their Arrow of Light by next summer? I doubt it. I hope they do, and will do everything to help them. I will judge success of the program for them on the following criteria --- did they have fun? did they get to do something new & interesting? If those things happen, then we all won. I have told the parents, just be active in Cub Scouts over the next few months will prepare them more for Boy Scouts, don't get over excited about the Arrow of Light. Don't compare them to the boys who have been in Webelos for over a year.

Okay..that's my opinion

Patches from events like the regatta or pinewood derby or campouts can only be worn on the right pocket of the Cub Scout or Webelos uniform as a temporary patch. You can only wear one at a time. BSA sells a red felt vest that temporary patches can easily been sewn to. The vest can then be worn over the uniform but it is not "official" uniform attire.

I'm no expert on this by any means, but as a Webelos leader have been studying up on Boy Scouts, from the boys and adults perspective.

I read your post a few days ago and have been pondering it since. First, I think you are on the right track.

A few things I would consider would be Junior Leadership training for all the boys. Also, is there a nearby troop that does things "right" that your troop could visit. Maybe if they saw how other troops are really boy-led, it will inspire them. Then it may not seem so scary. Once your boys see that they really can lead and that you believe they can lead, then they will believe in themselves.

Do you have a local computer store? I just saw where Gateway stores are helping Boy Scouts with Computer Merit Badge.

Also, does your school or the nearest middle

school or high school have a computer lab?

When my den did this badge last year, most of the boys had done this work in school, so we discussed what they had done and worked more on the other communicator requirements.

The uniform guide says to wear the pins on the hat. The hats do have a protective piece so the back of the pins aren't sticking in the boys head.

The colors are still optional.

Paul is right on about ADHD. In our Cub Scout pack I personally know of a few kids with ADHD. As a parent of a child with ADHD, I have him in scouting as a way to channel some of the energy he has. Also, it gives him a safe place to succeed when at times he feels he can't at school. That positive self-esteem and attitude are carrying over into school. I know other kids in the program who are there for similiar reasons.

I would recommend talking to Cub Scout leaders and parents about what the scout can do. Don't make a big deal with the cubs that they have a "disability".

As a den leader, if I was approached about helping a scout with this, I think I would have the scout help with a den meeting or two, not telling him who has a "disability" and then afterwards talk to him about could he tell and how some disabilities are obvious and some aren't. And just because you have a disability in one area doesn't mean you can't do other things. Also, talk to him about how the parents and leader can adjust the Cub Scout requirements to fit the boy. Kids with ADHD often have problems with writing, so sometimes "lists" are better done orally. The Cub Scout Academic & Sports book describe some ways to alter that program for boys with disabilities.

There are also other learning disabilities that children have. Some may have speech problems or diabetes (is that a disability?). Many times the scout leaders are not aware of learning disabilities, because parents don't tell in fear of the boys being labeled as "stupid" by the adults and other boys.

Pat

Rooster7 writes

"Over the years, inspired by overly concerned mothers, political correctness, or other influences, a large number of folks including many Scouters, have revised history. "

First, I am a mother. I'm not really offended by your message about "overly concerned" mothers as much as I find it humourous. I am sitting here chuckling. Why? Because I know those mothers you are referring to, but also I know a few dads that fall into that same category. It's a hard line to walk about being protective without being "overly concerned".

I'm not sure what others think as my 10 year old cooks at all our campouts, puts up his tent alone, is in charge of putting up my tent (really helps to have 2 with that one). As a mom and a Webelos leader, I walk around talking to myself saying "as long as they aren't getting hurt, let them learn, just turn away, scratches and bumps are okay".

I also have some boys in the den whose moms have them scared of everything outside, including bugs, dirt and eating honeysuckle. Geez, I thought boys were made of bugs, dirt and rocks.

Thanks for the info and link about Baden-Powell. I think that few of our boys today in this country are prepared if we should go to war. I've already heard whining about not getting to take TV's and radios to a campout in a month. Not to mention they don't realize there is not a grocery store & fast food joint always within 2 miles of you.

Pat