sctmom

Standards in Cub Scout do not need to be lowered for a child with ADHD. That would probably just make things worse.

I think a few adults need to sit down and talk to the parents. Lay out the rules to the parents and then to the boy. I'm sure others on this board can explain this better than I can. You may want the parents to stay at the meeting, if that helps. Some kids are better without the parents there.

Explain in very finite terms where the limits are and the consequences of going over the limit. When P.C. does something wrong -- nasty remarks, going where he shouldn't be, etc. --- he will be told to stop. He must stop immediately. If he doesn't he is to leave to have a time out -- in a quiet place to calm down (like right outside the door, but supervised). Any hitting means he must go home immediately and can only attend the next 3 meetings with his parent.

ADHD children need very clear rules and consequences. Talk to him firmly without yelling. Use as few words as possible. He must do it because you said so.

Think like an 8 year old boy...

Can you ever tire of getting to carry the U.S. Flag or calling out the color guard commands?

Maybe the same den is doing it but every time a different boy gets to carry the flag, so it never gets old.

Kids that age thrive on consistency and repetition. They want to know the punch lines before the skit ends. What may be the same old skit to adults is a fun time for kids -- both those doing the skit and those watching, one reason is that the same skit never comes out the same twice.

I'm no medical expert, but I take presciption meds and so does my son. Neither are for "life threatening problems". My concern is that if I get seriously hurt that the EMTs or whoever know what I'm taking in case something they want to give me would cause a bad reaction. Maybe that could never happen, but better safe than sorry.

Unfortunately in our society being on medication for depression or ADHD is considered being weak, a bad thing, something you should "be able to control", etc.

How to convince other parents? I don't have a clue.

If you can't get to training right away, do get to the nearest BSA store.

There are some good BSA resources:

Cub Scout Leader Handbook

Cub Scout Academics & Sports Book (belt loops & pins)

Cub Scout Leader How-To Book (full of games & Crafts)

Guide to Safe Scouting

Oh, another website.

www.macscouter.com

has lots of recipes, skits, ceremonies

Have fun!

Get trained.

Bear dens can NOT camp on their own. Your pack can camp if someone is BALOO trained.

Insist that all the parents help you in some way.

For Tigers, Wolves and Bears most of the advancement SHOULD be done at home. Cub Scouting is for family. Go through the book and find the activities that say "with your den", those are the ones you do in the den meetings.

Visit these websites:

www.cubmaster.org

www.geocities.com/cybercubber

Also, check out the Yahoo group called "Cub Scout Talk".

I hope my son can talk to me about anything, but I'm realistic to know he may not.

I would not make a blanket statement to any child that they can tell me anything and I promise to not tell their parents. If they asked "can i tell you and you not tell" I would say "I can't make that promise, let's talk".

Ed, I may not always agree with you but on this subject I think you are the voice of reason!

I'm 40 years old and there are still things I don't tell my parents! If telling the parent will help the child from being in danger, then by all means make the call. There are times the boy needs to talk to a mentor, a non-family member.

I'm a single mom, my son doesn't talk much with his dad. I can imagine there are some subjects that he may want to discuss with another adult instead of with me. It might even be about me! He does talk sometimes to his grandpa, who sometimes tells us and sometimes doesn't. So far none of it has been about legal issues, drugs, religion or sexuality. I trust his scout leaders, grandparents, and certain other adults to talk to him and if necessary NOT tell me.

Remember how it was to be a teenager. Did you really want to talk to your parents, of all people, about sexuality?

I think offering to talk to the parents with the boy is good. If he insists you don't, then make him tell you why --- we are talking about kids 11 yrs old and up, they should be able to verbalize why they don't want something.

I envy your 56 member pack, ours is at around 25 after cross over.

Could it be that the current set of parents aren't as excited and committed as in the past? Are they not aware of the importance of graduation?

Are they burnt out?

I didn't say an adult volunteer in BSA should be counseling. I said refer them to someone who is trained. Isn't that what the original article was about? Did I miss something?

Going to the parents first isn't always in the best interest of the child. Perhaps it usually is, but not always.

Bob wrires:

You can recommend to the scout to talk with parents, physician or clergy. I warn you if you go beyond that and give the scout contact information to a social service, agency or organization, you could find yourself in some very real legal problems.

What is the difference between a social service and a church? I'm asking a serious question. No, I'm not talking about sending them to a gay community, I'm talking about letting them know where a teen counseloring center is.

There are many issues we are normally not trained to deal with. Personally, I'm not trained to deal with depression/possible suicide not with grief from losing a family member.

If a child says that they cannot talk to their parents about their sexuality because they may be harmed or kicked out of the house, how can you justify telling the parents?

Most parents don't blame a child for getting the flu on a campout. You are not comparing apples to apples.

Why tell his parents? What if he feels that his parents will kick him out of the house or physically abuse him? Would you still tell against his wishes?

So a Scout goes to his scoutmaster and says "I believe I am gay, not sure who to talk to" and the adult should say "sorry, not my job and by the way you are not out of the troop".

Adults can't take the time to say "Son, have you talked to your clergy or parents? OH, you can't, okay, how about we find someone who is trained in this for you to talk to. I do have to tell you the BSA policy on gays. But for right now, let me help you find that phone number of someone to call."???????

Is that so hard?

If a boy comes to you and says he is being abused, you have a responsibility to report it. Even if it is not the law, it is the right thing to do.

Why not when he has other problems -- sexuality issues, drug abuse, etc.

I've got to jump in here.

"supervisory level"? What? I didn't know I had a supervisor in the pack or that I supervised anyone.

Also, what's with all this pack gear. Your pack owns tents? Wow. Our pack owns a US flag, pack flag, some candles, a thing to hold the candles during the arrow of light ceremony, a copy of the leader books, some rank advancements that never got awarded, some popcorn prizes that never got awarded, and a PWD track. The cubmaster is the keeper of the PWD track, the flags, candles and candle holder. Different people have some of the books, but not a big deal because they change so often and we have multiple copies.

Oh, yeah we also have a bunch of participation badges left over from events.

Well said TwoCubDad. I keep wondering what kind of project managers BSA has.

Pack2,

The last time the books changed, the Webelos stick with the book they start with. They don't change mid-stream. The use the books and requirements from when they became Webelos.

What I don't understand is why National can't give more advance notice and a solid date of shipping. The new Tiger books a couple of years ago were very late shipping. Why? I hear the line of "things happen". Really? I work in software development & support. If a customer wants this update by August 1st, I do everything to make that happen. If I promise August 1st, then I do it. That's the way most businesses work.

Why doesn't BSA get the new books out in May? Boy Scouts say "be prepared" but National doesn't seem to know what that means.

Ah, yes the 13th point of the Scout law for adults - be flexible.

Dsteele,

I agree about word from National. The email I quoted was from someone who said the letter came from National. There have been rumors and hints for a few months.

When the new Tiger books came out a couple of years ago, they were a month or so later than planned.

Word on the street is that new handbooks for Wolves, Bears and Webelos will be out in July. Scouts do not HAVE to use them until August 2004.

Integrated Character Connections (that draw on Cub

Scouting's 12 Core Values) directly into selected requirements in each book.

Infused age-appropriate outdoor program activities into both the requirements and the electives in each book.

Enhanced the advancement and elective trails to create a progressively more challenging pathway that logically prepares boys for the next rank in Cub Scouting and prepares Webelos Scouts for Boy Scouting.

Reformatted and enhanced the Webelos handbook; particularly, the Webelos badge and Arrow of Light Award requirements. In an effort to assist you and your leaders with the transition from the current handbooks to the new handbooks, we have created the following implementation plan.

The enhanced Wolf, Bear, and Webelos handbooks will be released to the field in July.

The enhancements to the requirements in these books will not affect the advancement trails of boys who are using the current

books. They are to continue using their current books until they have completed all requirements in those books.

My two cents worth:

I've been a Cub Scout leader for over 2 years. I have been to RT twice and then planning meeting (we wanted that extra popcorn commission). One reason is a personal issue with the timing of the meeting.

First RT, I walk in looking lost as can be. Didn't know anyone. Felt like I walked in on somebody else's party. No one introduced themselves to me. I didn't know the routine, didn't know where to sit (it wasn't a regular meeting room), didn't know the agenda (okay, everybody get out your calendar - what calendar?). Finally got up nerve to go back. Another leader from our group went. Again, no one talked to us, even when I was standing there alone waiting for the meeting room to clear.

Planning meeting I went to with someone else. We weren't sure what room to go to, walked in on the Boy Scouters -- got nasty looks and a nasty response about us being in the wrong place.

The good thing I saw. I did like it when the RT guy did a ceremony and used some of us to act it out. Then explained -- here is why and how you can use this. I liked playing the game so we could see how it looked easy but wasn't (and how you couldn't help but giggle as you blow through a straw to push a penny across a yard stick).

I'm an adult, you don't have to play the whole game with me to get me to understand it. Don't just go through the song/game/ceremony but talk to me as an adult about when I would want to do this and WHY! How does it relate to each level of Cub Scouting. How does it relate to the purposes of Cub Scouting and how does it tie into Character Connections.

During the breakout sessions for Webelos leaders we were told WRONG information. Make sure your RT staff is giving out the correct info. We were told that Webelos MUST camp with a troop. We were also told things about the Boy Scout way that is WRONG -- it just happened to be the way some of the local troops are doing it (basically adults treating scouts like servants).

First let me congralute you on trying to help these boys.

I think you have another avenue here -- the Church. If the grandmother is attending a church meeting, sounds like she is a member of this church. Also, you are meeting at this church so they must have some interest in youth. Approach the someone at the church and tell them of the situation. Does the church have a troop? Could someone start a troop that meets on the same night as your group? (that makes it easy for grandma and benefits your Webelos)

Does the church have a youth outreach program - officially or unofficially? I would bet somebody at that church would help you.

Best of luck and thanks again for caring about our youth.

MY opinion:

I think jbroganjr presents some good points. Maybe there should be something that covers these that is NOT Woodbadge? If you go through training as a brand new parent and leader you don't get it all. You might hear some of it again at RT or you might not. OR you might here the wrong information at RT and/or training. Oh, that's a different discussion.

Seriously, after a couple of years, some more advanced Scouter training would be a good thing. I know at work that often training after you have your own war stories is more interesting and you get more out of it.

New people in training tend to have that deer in the headlight look and don't know what to ask. A year or two later you are full of questions and what-ifs and what-should-i-have-done and if-i-could-do-it-again.

I understand not explaining HOW the course is taught but at least if someone said "it's about leadership" would be nice.

Bob White says:

> Could the 'shroud of secrecy' be getting compounded by long term scouters who have not taken the time to look open a BSA resource for an explaination of Wood Badge. It was on Page 4 of the Scoutmaster Handbook.

Hey, I'm NOT a Scoutmaster, I'm a Cub Scout Leader. Nothing is mentioned in MY handbook about Wood Badge training, at least I've never seen it.

Another question -- is it really applicable to Cub Scout Leader AND Boy Scout Leaders? Some of us may never grow up to be Boy Scout Leaders.

First as a side note, I chuckled at KWC's last comment. I often just am amazed at the rules about Cub Scout camping, I've been camping since BEFORE I could walk. Based on some pictures of my mother, I was camping before I *was*.

I also had to dig and dig and dig to find out what WoodBadge is about. You can ask other scouters and they will not tell you. They tell you the thing about it's the greatest training, it's a life changing experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sounds like it is about management and teamwork. I have been in the professional workplace for 18 years now. I have attended MANY training sessions where we play silly games so they can point out teamwork to to us. I have attended MANY training sessions on diversity, management, teamwork, planning, project management (that's what being a Scouter really is), motivation, goal setting, blah, blah, blah. So, why do *I* want to attend WB? I have yet to see why I do.

That's just my opinion. That and a couple of bucks will get you a cup of coffee.

Computer geek (software not hardware) supporting accounting, so I'm part techie and part accountant.

When I grow up (and get rich) I want to be a librarian or own a little bookstore.

In high school and college I worked at a small town hardware store and as a data entry clerk.

When I took this last fall, they combined Den Leader & Webelos Den Leader because of lack of trainers. The Tiger leaders probably had more questions than anyone because most likely they are the brand new parents.

Last fall our district had 2 Saturday trainings and also did NLE at a Roundtable with the breakout sessions at the next roundtable.

OZ,

In the Cub program (6 to 11 years old) here in the States, the parents do the sign off for the first 3 years (Tigers, Wolves, Bears). In the last 2 years of Cubs (Webelos), the leader starts doing the sign off on most things.

Most Boy Scout (11 to 18) leaders prefer not to sign off their own sons.