ScoutNut

Bob - Perhaps having this site chop my reply into 3 parts confused you. Summit was asking about Show-An-Do. My Council has not done one in at least 9 years and I have not heard of any nearby councils doing this. From the other replys here it seems that Show-An-Do is a very old training course that is seldom, if ever, used any more. I was curious how his council came up with this since it is obviously a very outdated, old trainig course.

I went on to say that the closest thing my council does in the way of leadership training which involves interaction between the SM and the youth being trained is our Bear Paw Junior Leader Training (JLT - yes the one from National). However it is only vaugely similar.

I also mentioned that my council does a right grand job with JLT (our Bear Paw).

I highly reccomend JLT training to any SM for his SPL, or his ASPL, or PL's. Especially a new SM with a new SPL who is "grabbing at any sort of helps" that he can find.

I hope that this is clearer.

How about putting together and running a skills workshop for the new scouts. First aid is always good, or knots.

HA - 3rd Time was the Charm!!!

Bear Paw is like Youth Wood Badge and is very well done by our council training staff.

It is for BS youth, not just SPL's, and does not directly include SM's, but the boys do work with their SM's after the training. Bear Paw is like a Wood Badg

I am not sure how your council can offer training that is no longer offered by National. Your description sounds vaugely like our Bear Paw Junior Leader Training. It is

Bears usually do not take off their Wolf beads once they graduate to Bears. They have beads for both levels on their pocket totem along with arrowheads for both levels on their shirt. There is nothing that says a Tiger belt totem can't be worn along with the Wolf/Bear pocket totem. It is up to the Scout.

This year's Tigers will not have that option, unless they are still using the old belt totems instead of the new Tiger pocket ones. With the pocket totems the Tigers witll have to retire them once they move to Wolf because they can't wear 2 totems on the same pocket!

Tigers do not however, have to retire their pocket or belt totems once they receive their Tiger rank badge. They continue to wear them and add the elective beads as they are earned.

Hey Spiney! You had perfect weather at Tomo this weekend! My son was going for his ordeal this weekend too. Unfortunatly he was sheduled to work and could not find anyone to take over for him. He is now hoping he can make it to Mach in May!

Congratulations and Welcome!

We use them for just about everything. They are a LOT cheaper than the larger patches. Maybe not as fancy as the large ones, but you can't beat the price. And it looks so neat when the boys are Webelos and have 4,5, or more circles on the back of their vest.

Hops, Cubs can also attend Summer Camp. There are Cub camps that run from 2 nights to a week long resident camp. Some Packs go as a group, some as a Den, some sign up individually.

Our current 4th grade Webelos attended a 4 night, 5 day Webelos 1 camp at Chicago Council's Hoover Outdoor Education Center this summer.

I think the confusion was in E thinking of the boy as a new Tiger going to camp. Tigers who sign up in the Spring after graduating from kindergarten are indeed eligible to attend Summer camp, but this is, as E stated, not an everyday event. However this particular boy went to camp as a new Wolf Scout after completing his Tiger year.

Ambana - I think the question here is why any of you are still with this Pack. There is more wrong here than just a family who can't pay den dues.

You say that the Pack's leaders, including the Cubmaster are trained. Sorry, but it sure does not sound like it. Having Cub Scout age boys (or any boys) do pushups as punishment is against BSA Youth Protection Policy!! There is another thread currently under discussion on just that issue. You might want to take a look under "Long Time Scouter needs New Guidance".

Contact your Charter Org Representative and let them know what is going on in the Pack. If the Charter Org does nothing then contact your Unit Commissioner. If your UC cannot talk some sense into your Pack leaders then, following Youth Protection guidelines, I would report the Cubmaster's actions to your Council's Scout Executive.

$100 a year - Den dues??!! Holy Moley! Your Den Leader is making out like a bandit on this one!

Why would Den dues have anything to do with awards earned at camp? Does your Pack charge dues too? With Den dues at $100, I shudder to guess what the Pack dues might be. Does your Pack do any fundraising? Awards should be purchased by the Pack from Pack funds, not from Den funds. Does your Pack not have an Advancement Chair?

ALL of the costs, and penalties, of a year of Scouting in your Pack should have been disclosed upfront at the very beginning when this boy and his family registered. If they were never told of these den dues at that time they have every right to tell your Pack to put their den dues request where the sun does not shine and find a new Pack which is more honest, upfront and cheaper. He can get the recognitions he earned during Summer Camp at his new Pack.

Are we talking Pack dues or Den dues? How much money is involved?

We don't charge Pack dues, but I know that some do and they can get pretty pricey ($100+). The cost and any consequences from non-payment, including hardship alternatives (which there should always be), should have been discussed with all families at sign-up.

Den dues are another thing altogether. I have charged a minimal amount ($7 per year) that helped cover supplies used. We never made a point of singleing out boys in front of the den who did not pay. A few reminder letters went home and after that it was dropped. Families never knew if there were some who did not pay den dues. None of their business. Most families helped out with stuff too. We always managed and the boys always had fun.

The family should contact either the Cubmaster (Pack dues) or the Den Leader (Den dues) to see what can be done.

When my daughter first heard about the 18+ advisors she was very upset. Her thought was that she wanted someone as her leader who had experience with the world, not someone 2 years older than she was!

Now that she is in college, although she has registered as a lifetime member, she has no interest in being an advisor to Girl Scouts at this time.

Are these pushups given to Boy Scouts (ages 11-18) or to Cub Scouts (ages 7-10)? Or both?

Not that it is ok for either age group. What happens when you call out a boy in front of all of his peers and, for whatever reason, he can't do 20 pushups? Or 10 pushups? What if he can't do even 2 pushups? Some boys are severly pushup challenged. This can be extremely humiliating to these young boys. Gee, what a recruiting line - Come to our Troop and be embarassed!

I don't care how many leaders you have who have reached their Eagle rank, what you are doing is against BSA policy and against Youth Protection Guidelines.

If you requested my Boy Scout aged son drop and give you 10 or 20, I would tell him to do the same thing I told him to do if he was made to sing for lost materials. Just say no!

Who to contact -

Charter Org Representative

Institutional Head of your Charter Organization

Unit Commissioner

District Executive

In that order. Some, or all, of them should be able to help you.

As E stated, you might want to consider transfering to a Pack that follows BSA policy.

Have you considered confronting the CM, with an independent witness (maybe your Unit Commissioner) in tow of course?

Your problem is a good example of why accurate health histories are needed for everyone, youth and adult. What would happen if you were to have more than just a "flare up" at a meeting. If no one knew what was really happening, vital help might be very late in reaching you, with potentially nasty results.

But it DOES look like National is listening to the girls. At least a little. They have made at least some changes to the program based on feedback they have gotten.

If volunteers and girls don't give Nat'l their opinions then they have no complaints. If Nat'l has no input to go by then they will simply look at their bottom line (Just look at all of the books we sold the first year - folks must love this program - who cares if the books were 95% leader books purchased by leaders who were trying to find out what the heck was going on!).

Have your girls e-mail National with their feelings. Remember - "By Girls For Girls"!!

Unfortunatly, regardless of the National hype about "not less more", there are really no program "options". There is only S2B. I have said all along that "By Girls-For Girls" is the way we have been supposed to have been running the older girl program all along and S2B will not force a controlling leader to suddenly get the picture.

About the only option the girls have now is to get a copy of the current Cadette/Senior materials now, before they change them to do away with any structure, and use those. Of course, you have no way of knowing how long the IP patches will be available.

Other than that, I would say just run your program the way you have been running it. Go with progression and let the girls have more and more to do with running their troop. Introduce the focus book to them and see what their reaction is. My appoligies to GSUSA and copywrite law, but I would only buy 1 book and copy it. There is only so much troop $ to go around and the cost of this program is outragous. The same goes for the Silver & Gold inserts. Buy 1 and copy for any girl interested.

Let them know about the leadership training available to them. PA, LIT, CIT, etc. Tell them about the Destinations (formerly Wider OP) website.

Have fun, make sure the girls have fun, and you will be fine.

BTW - When the girls have had the oportunity to look at the S2B materials, please encourage them to write or e-mail National with their thoughts!

Girl Scouts does not have "sponsors" or charter orgs like BSA. The Planned Parenthood materials were, I believe, based on grant monies to help at risk girls. I can think of any number of areas that might find these materials helpful in keeping their girls safe and healthy. As KS stated, they are not forced on anyone, but are there if you feel your girls would benefit. They also have materials on reading, sports, health, government, international awareness, nature, science, drug abuse, heritage, peer pressure, smoking, physical fitness and many more.

"Don't ask - Don't tell rule". I'm not real sure exactly what rule you are quoting here. I don't recall ever seeing this rule in my 13 years of being affilated with GSUSA. If you are, for whatever reason, worried about homosexuals in Girl Scouting, I would think that the number of both adults and youth who are homosexual is about the same number as it is in BSA. Short of making every potential member (youth & adult) take a polygraph test and give a sworn statement I don't see how you can determine who is and who is not homosexual.

If you have done any research at all you could not make the statement that you are "really concerned about the lack of a clear moral basis to the GS". I suggest you read the "The Girl Scout Promise" and "The Girl Scout Law".

The animosity that was at the leader meeting is the same that can be seen in any number of BSA units or districts. Some people just can not seem to get along with others. Just read some of the entries in this forum.

Bottom line is that GSUSA is a great program. It has some problems, but so does BSA. If you do not like it there are alternatives out there. Try Campfire, 4-H, or maybe Heritage girls.

Welcome !

First - Training. Although it would be nice to have a cooperative, helpful Cubmaster, it is not your Cubmaster's job to train you. Contact your council. Most councils have a lot of training going on right now. Check out the on-line stuff (fast start and Youth protection) first. Attend your District's monthly Roundtables. These are a good oportunity to learn and to meet other Scouters in your area.

Uniforms - For help with your Cubs uniforming contact your Charter Organization (CO). They "own" your Cub Scout Pack and many CO's will be more than happy to provide their Pack some money to be used by needy families for uniforms.

Money/Fundraising - Support your council and your unit (Pack) by selling Scout Popcorn. Many, many Scout units fund their entire scout year thru popcorn sales. Check with your council, many are starting their sales soon. For any other type of money earning activity you will need to fill out a permit and get it approved by your council. Some things that have gone well for units are - car wash, sell christmas wreaths, pancake breakfast, pasta dinner, sell pizzas, sell candy, bake sale, rummage sale.

Good Luck !

According to the BSA National website:

"Boy Scouting, one of the traditional membership divisions of the BSA, is available to boys who have earned the Arrow of Light Award OR have completed the fifth grade, OR who are 11 through 17 years old."

Those "OR"'s mean as long as he earns his AOL he can cross over to a Boy Scout Troop. However, things can and do change. When the time comes check with your council.

I too would keep him in Bears. He has already completed Wolf and you would loose him if you forced him to repeat. No fun!

As for Boy Scouts, as long as he earns his Arrow of Light he will be able to cross over with the rest of his group, regardless of his age. An option for his parents, if they do not feel he is ready for Boy Scouts mid 4th grade, is to keep him in Webelos for the rest of his 4th grade year. He can earn more activity pins, do some more Webelos Den camping, participate in Webelos summer camp and be ready to join the Scout Troop at the start of his 5th grade year.

P = Pain

I = In

T = The

A = posterior region of the body!

Scouting may be a year round program, but we also consider September the "start" of the Scouting year. Councils hold their year kickoffs, recruitment rallies are held and weekly Den meetings begin(we don't do weekly meetings during the summer). September is also the time we redo our member list adding new boys and dropping those that have quit. Our charter is up the 1st of the year, but our scouting year goes from September to August and if we have been told that a scout has quit we take him off of our current member list as of September. We do not continue to send him flyers, invite him to outings or buy him a Christmas gift.

My question to Fotoscout is, when this dad told the Pack they would not be returning did anyone mention to him that he would be loosing his deposit on the trip? Has anyone talked to this family? Maybe this is all a lot of hair tearing for nothing. Maybe he does not intend to go on the trip now. Why don't you check with your newly recruited scouts and see if any of them are interested in going. That way you could offer the refund to the X-cub and not loose any money.