ScoutNerd

Two goldfish were in their tank, and one said to the other, "Okay, I'll drive, you man the guns"

Two sausages were in a frying pan, one says to the other "ya know, it's getting pretty hot in here" and the other said "HOLY COW A TALKING SAUSAGE"

Two cows were in a field, and one asks the other "what do you think about that Mad Cow Disease?" the other says "don't ask me I'm a helicopter"

Enjoy :-D

-Curtis

Wow, you PLC has a lot of cool ideas, don't they. Well, the water safety rules are more my area of expertise than hobo railway campouts :-D. For starters, I don't think you an assume cardboard boats to be anything besides something like pool toys. For example, canoes (like you asked) keep themselves afloat even when completely swamped, and cardboard can barely make such a claim, epsecially when soggy :-D. I'd say the best way to make sure you're within the rules is find some still water (lake or pool - though I doubt a pool would let cardboard in) and form an extra large swimming area, following the G2SS and safe swim defense rules. As long as they were playing with such "toys" (forgive the term) in water that they'd be allowed to swim in (given swim checks and all) I'd say you wouldn't even need PFD's because you could count it as swimming, and not boating. Don't take my word as gospel or anything, since I've never officially went to camp school, but after 4 years of being the second in command at a boy scout pool, I'm pretty good on the rules (as of last summer at least). I'm going to camp school in mid-may for being a aquatics instructor, and I'll ask them out of curiosity, and if I"m wrong, I'll write you a really huge "i'm sorry to mislead you" post :-D

-Curtis :-D

Hi Semper,

Personally, I have no idea, but that sounds like an awesome trip idea. I bet some at the nearest railway station could tell you about safety, and companies that might do such a trip, or at least a better place to start looking... let us know how it turns out :-D

-Curtis

I'll work on writing them up, but it'll take a while, I wouldn't rely on it if you were trying for this weekend. Maybe by tomm morning. (I'm a busy college student, sorry :-D)

Is there an email address I can send them to rather than filling up this forum? :-D

Also, 4 sons? only sons? daugters too? if only sons, tell your wife she's in my prayers :-D :-P

-Curtis :-D

and by the way, as it applies to keeping cubs entertained...

If you're really good at storie telling I know a few that are good stories with extremely corny endings (and therefore funny for the yung'uns) :-D If you're good at telling them they can get wrapped up in them (when I tell them at the lunch table at camp, they forget to eat their lunch) :-D

-Curtis

SO Fullquiver,

Am I right in guessing what your name signifies?

Psalm 127:4-5

"As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate."

I think biblically a full quiver is 6 kids, right?

-Curtis :-D

Well, Eamonn, BW, thanks, that is the kind of talk I was really hoping to hear. (hoping its just out there at all, sadly enough) I've spent about 7 yrs thinking about this subject whenever it would come up, and now it's time to sit and think some more. Perhaps, I'll call up my old scoutmaster and ask to talk with him over lunch this summer. Especially if it's done politely, it could be very interesting to hear his reasons behind running things the way he did.

Incidently, the scrap book story was me at my scoutmasters conf for Eagle about 2-3 days before my 18th bday, and I was told to spend one more day working on it;

The uniform thing was just annoying, even the evening I drove back from working at scout camp all summer in time for a meeting, I was wearing my camp staff class A shirt (venture) since it was the only clean shirt I had with me, and I was asked to ...not stick around too long :-D.

The merit badge thing never really got in the way, more than it was just annoying.

Thanks again for all your thoughts :-D

-Curtis

Phillipians 3:8-9

I've seen this subject come up a few times, and it tended to be glossed over, so I'll ask it directly here? How much should a troop be able to have its own way of working under the same set of rules? What's the limit between Contextualism and individualism as it applies to troops? I'll give some examples (not so much to be specifically answered, but to spark discussion).

1.) A troop requires their scouts to be in uniform for every meeting. For Courts of Honor, this includes scout pants/shorts (and scout socks, if showing), scout belt, class A shirt, neckerchief and MB Sash. For regular meetings the neckerchief and sash can be taken off, and the top button of the shirt left undone. If for any reason a scout is not in this uniform, they are politely asked to either go home (if they are older, and drove themselves) or call/find their parents to take them home.

Is this ok with you guys? It's not necessarily against BSA policy. What if the scout had something important to do, like have a MB bluecard signed at the meeting, and he simply couldn't find his belt?

2. A troop "highly encourages" (aka requires with out making a rule) that each boy keep a scrap book of pictures and significant flyers/papers from his time as a Boy Scout. This practice is so encouraged that the boy at every Scoutmaster's Conference, might be "encouraged" to work on the scrap book, to update, and improve it in general, before the Scoutmaster gives him the okay for the Board of Review. What do you think?

3. (last one) A troop has a special policy (though not in writing) of finishing merit badges in a year's time or less. Even if it were say camping (with the 20 days 20 nights requirement) and busy scouts may or may not be able to find enough time to go camping that much in 1 year. What do you think?

Again, these are all just examples of the kind of thing I'm talking about. Answer them directly if you want, but what I'd like to figure out is more the subject behind it... troop individuality. What's good and what's bad about having troops run things certain ways, specific to their program? What defines the line between troop applying the BSA program to their specific situation and going overboard and ... frankly...power crazy.

-Curtis :-D

As it applies to observation during the high adventure trip I really don't have any ideas... and as it applies to the Grandfather, I hate to be the one to suggest weeding out, but... In my troop, when we'd prepare to go on a Philmont Trek or another 50 miler, we'd have Prep Hikes. These would be every few saturdays to slowly work up the scouts (and adults) to the required load and exertion, as well as bind them together a bit. I'm not sure how long you have till you go on your trek, but I'd suggest having everyone do prep hikes... make everyone realize what they're getting themselves into (young and old alike). The grandfather though it's obvious he cares deeply, might realize that he wouldn't be able to keep up. That would also give him an opportunity to see the caliber of group his grandson would be with. Maybe you'd even be surprised and find that the grandfather can keep up with the best of them (I really don't know any details about his physical condition, but it's a possibility).

 -Curtis :-D

Hi Eric,

I'll work on getting that to you, but it may or may not need to wait till I can go home this weekend. The link is good, though :-D

-Curtis

I LOVE that song,

trouble is, it's tune is not a usual one. It's in the boy scout song book (red one) or if you'd like I can email you a scanned version (theoretically at least, I can try).

And thanks by the way(*joking sarcasm), now I'm gonna have it stuck in my head all day!! :-P :-D well I guess there are are worse (worser? less nice? I was never very good at grammar) fates :-D

-Curtis

I'd definitly say it's more about quality than quantity. As a youth my troop was considerably large (about 100 boys at it's prime) but once the adults started focusing more on drawing people in, rather than keeping the quality and reputation up, about half the boys lost interest, or finished getting Eagle, then didn't come back. Keep the quality there, and the program will advertise itself. :-D

-Curtis

The question you asked about the relationship between troop policy and BSA policy is very interesting... I'd like to know that as well. The troop I grew up in, had a few things I didn't like the idea of too much (for instance, requiring photo albums for boards of review, their reasons were beacause the troop has a reputation of such things to keep up). After I worked at scout camp for a summer or two, I started realizing how much was different from the way troops were supposed to be run, but I was never sure of how much was still ok to be run that way.

Any of the more experienced members of the forum have a good explanation? :-D

-Curtis

Not really, but I wish I could... that's all my camp director knew off the top of his head. He said he'd look up the rest. :-D I'll be going for the BSA Aqua Inst. certification. does that help?

-Curtis

I know this is thread is a bit on the old side, but my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE thing to do as camp staff for special adult activities is Water Polo (or at least the scout camp version). We would hype it up at about 3 meals over the course of the week, and then fri afternoon after all is done (merit badges, paper work, etc), we would play water polo in the deep end of the pool, Leaders vs Staff, where each team could have as many substitute players as they wanted. I'm proud to admit we've been undefeated for 2 summers now (and no I don't mention it often, since we're young and in our prime -so to speak- and well aclimated to the 8000 ft elevation going up against leaders who haven't been that high in years, so it's kind of tilted in our favor, I know)

What makes it espeically fun is the majority of the scouts in camp crowd in onto the bleachers overlooking the pool. And a lot of the families comming to spend the last night usually show up just in time to watch their husbands and fathers and other such loved ones get creamed. :-D

JohnKC,

I like your idea of camperships for the underage junior 'soon to be staff', but there's a slight problem I've run into about once a year, that the program might have to deal with pretty regularly. Even as 14 yr olds, there's usually 1 Councilor in Training (CIT) (under paying age staff) every summer that has had... lets call it difficulty realizing that being on staff is more than being a summer long camper with power. I'm not sure how CS Day camps need to work thing (frankly I've never been to one, or worked one), but if camp staff has a record of such problems from scouts who are beginning to blossom in maturity, I really think it could be an issue with new boy scouts who are still working at growing the stem. :-D

-Curtis

Hi all,

My boss for summer camp gave me the dates and general place for the NCS session I'm supposed to go to, but he couldn't give me anything more then, and hasn't gotten back to me now (the bum! :-P).

Does anyone know important details about the NCS session from May 21 until sometime, in Texas somewhere? How bout info like when it ends, and which camp it's at, what towns it near? I like to start figuring out a way to get there, but my boss evidently checks his email as often as if he were at camp :-D

Thanks

-Curtis :-D

Well, thinking more about that question from Eagledad... (wow, that was a good question... have I mentioned that lately? :-D)

I don't think I would be any different had I not become an Eagle Scout... had I barely not made it. (Don't yell at me quite yet) Talking with an Eagle brother of mine here at school helped me pin point it. having the award of Eagle scout did not make me the young man I am today. The experiences leading up to it, did, of course. But had I stopped right before my project when I was 17 1/2, I think I would turned out just about the same. I would have the same work ethic, the same character, the same sense for responsibilities. that being said...

I am extremely glad I got my Eagle scout, because it is official proof of what kind of person I am. The actual finishing did one extra thing for my charcter, however. It taught me how to finish something really impacting, and that's what I have the right to be proud of. The fact that I finished one of the toughest, and most drawn out things I've done in my entire life is now signified by the plack on the wall, the card in my wallet.

So if your son doesn't want to finish eagle scout, don't force him, it needs to be his job, his goal to finish (as many of you have been saying). It might be a regret later in life, but the experience is the biggest thing that changes the young man, not the award. The award is definetly a great symbol of the type of man, but it's not the defining characteristic, rather, the men that have gotten eagle until now define the honor that the rank still holds.

O sifuni mungu :-D

-Curtis

Phillipians 3:8-9 (a great description to the other side of my thinking on this subject :-D)

Well, Eagledad, after much deep thought this is what I can tell you. As senior in college, life often feels like it's been put on hold, so I haven't really run into extremely excellent examples of how being an Eagle changes things on the visible level. The only job I've officially had that required a resume was (and still is) scout camp staff. The only benefit that probably got me was a pay raise of a few dollars a week, but I really am not sure. (Any other Eagles reading this, feel free to add stuff in on this, because my experience is rather limited.)

Truthfully, sometimes I have to let the idea sink in all over again that I've done something above average in that respect. (Thinking about your question was actually one of those times, so thank you :-D)

The thing I have noticed the most, and really enjoy about being an Eagle scout is that you can meet strangers and find out they are an Eagle as well, and immediately you feel like brothers (even though you may know nothing else about one another). My Technical writing teacher said that the classic "employers consider Eagle scouts more" is not so much anymore... but I really didn't believe him, it's still on the top of my resume (actually a few lines down from the top) :-D

To get more informed about this, we should pull in other eagles that might be reading this, I'd like to hear their stories too.

I hope this helps, and maybe sparks a few fun stories from the elder eagles in our little quorum.

-Curtis :-D

but for the rest of the story... Phillipian 3:8-9 :-D

Wow... good question... one that I don't feel I can answer immediately... let me think some about that, and I'll get back to you :-D

-Curtis :-)

Then again there's the issue of "now you know" so what if something bad in the future happens and you knew mr. z was a possible threat to the boys?

In response to the original questions... I'm gonna agree with Ed on the basics... except for I would talk to Mr. Z. As some other people hinted, maybe he has a very clean good explanation... and maybe he is a closet porn reader... that's not really something you should bring up in public until the truth is well understood. perhaps thru talking to Mr. Z, you could make him realize the difficult situation it puts the troop in and he'll reconsider his... viewing habits...

-Curtis

in the troop I grew up in, many of the people my age were forced through advancement all the way til Eagle. I really didn't like it back then, but I do think that good has (now that we've finished growing up) it's been good in the long run. A lot of the guys who got Eagle young because their families were forceing them, most everyone I'm still in contact with has grown into being what they got before they may have been ready, so keep in mind that it's not all bad. Of course I do think that they should be Eagle caliber before they get it, but I'm glad the guys I grew up with have at least become worthy of their title.

-Curtis

In that old movie, "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington", I seem to remember he was a boy scout leader, or at least wanted to start a program for boys (sounds familiar) :-D

-Curtis :-D

That is a good point, at least in NM, there is actually a car insurance benefit for Eagle scouts :-D but anyway, I digress. back to the topic at hand...