ScoutMomSD

just a note - I just received in the mail a flyer from Target. They have Calphalon cast iron skillets for around $20 each

just to let you know

I think it depends on the cool factor, your location and the leader.

At my daughter's middle school, they cant even say they have Walmart clothes without being looked down on. She has Girl Scout shirts (very COOL GS tshirts) and wont wear THOSE to school.

Having been to a roundtable, there are scout leaders who seem to have the boys "vibe" and others that are really bordering on pencil neck geeks.

Parents are NEVER cool to kids. But the leader affect I am sure if a factor.

okay got your politics -

McCain is full of a cross between a bulldog and a shih tsu.

McCain looks like a Sharpei caught in the headlights.

Palin doesnt need fake poo and she's knee deep in real doo doo

how's that???

Trevor - seriously? I went to church every sunday as kid and didnt know there was an actual physical ark until I saw Indian Jones. And I even went to a church listed in the Wolf handbook under the "god" section. Its about whether you interpret literally vs figuratively. And that is a whole other slope I dont want to touch. Wow I could care less about the reference. Again should we not go to Indiana Jones movies?

Gold - I totally disagree with a lot of your inferences about men and women. When I was 25 (which was a while ago) I became one of the first women in a male dominated arena, Hospital controllers/cfo's. Most of my "friends" at work were men as they were doing what I was. In fact I had two PLUTONIC male roommates at the time. What a learning experience that was.

When I became a Division CFO, I was the FIRST female to EVER hold this position. In fact it was very hard for me to relate to a lot of women as I really never wanted to talk about recipes, appliances or kids (as I didnt have any at the time) - I wanted to talk about business, finance, the stock market, current events, etc.

Even though I gave all that up to become a parent, I still prefer to talk to the "men folk" a lot, the ones sitting on their butts while the women rush around and clean up the mess.

I think you will find with business women, there is less of a line between the sexes. Two of my favorite cartoons are South Park and Beavis and Butthead. And I go to Comic Con. And I like action movies. I REMEMBER the 60's and the 70's and how women had to FIGHT to get equal rights. Women in their 20's and 30's are reaping the seeds sown by the sweat and blood of those women. Despite Dr Laura.

Okay - jumping off my soap box now

as a small business owner, I totally disagree with the definition of "profit". As with a number of scout "rules" this is a grey area.

Profit includes ALL expenses, fixed and variable. Depending on your business, its not just the item cost that is the cost, its the overhead. Which is why I work out of my home!

If you have a B&M (bricks and mortar) store, you have salaries, rent, utilities, etc. If I only marked up from what my COST was I would not make enough money as I need to cover my computer costs, my supply costs, and more.

giving a shirt for free would be LOSING money

I have been going over the expenses for our pack and I have to say most awards/pins/patches are in the $1 to $2 plus range. I would calculate what the average you give out per year is and ADD that back to your dues. And TELL the parents that. Say we give each scout (example) 15 awards per year, they are 2.00 each and we are adding the $30 back to the dues.

Dont even ALLOW the fairness of it, ie Johnny gets more merits, yadda yadda. As I tell my kids life isnt fair. I even have a life isnt fair song and dance (which my kids HATE and I love!!!)

congrats you win the award for best subject on Scouter!!!

I have to digress - there was a thing I think on "the soup" that was talking about the cover of people magazine where Lance Bass says "I'm Gay!!!" - they then said "next weeks cover of people magazine" and it was a bear with the title "yes I s.... in the woods".

Where is Judge Judy when you need her? maybe judge Gold or Beavah???

I think this is really less of a big deal. What is it that the parents of the "affected" want. If they want the tent paid for, pay for it out of pack/troop funds or pay for professional cleaning which I have to think must be available. I am pretty sure legally the person just should be put in the place they were before the incident which means no new tent.

I would talk to the parents of the kid who did it and be down to earth. Just say, look, this is what your kid did. See what the demeanor of the parents it and if they are good folks, they will probably volunteer to clean or have the tent cleaned. If they are bad parents they will probably blame you all. Either way, pack pays, discuss it at the next group meeting and move on.

we currently have pack T shirts but I would really like to see a wider selection including possibly a baseball raglan style and more style options.

Where do you get your tshirts and also custom patches from? Do you source local vendors or use the online national folks?

I was looking up licensed BSA folks and most of their websites are incredibly hard to use. Plus a part of me thinks that finding a local source could be better to establish a relationship and support the local economy (in addition to adding a friend to your scouting pack).

this is for a Cub Pack. Have you ever had parents/kids design the shirts?

Thanks so much. Also for the "chicks" out there, looking for something that makes us look less like Rosie ODonnells best friends if you know what I mean. As Seinfeld said "not that there's anything wrong with that".

Ikea sells really cheap teflon pans which would be better for backpacking - I cant imagine schlepping cast iron along. I think Walmart also has the cheap pans.

I would get a set for camping (like lodge) and a set for backpacking that is cheap. If you take care of the cheap ones they can last a bit.

I sell on eBay so I also will suggest that resource. I just keyed in Cast Iron skillet and under home and garden there are 260 results. If you set the search option to "price plus shipping lowest first" you will see there are MANY good deals.

REMEMBER ebay is having financial issues too and many folks who sell on eBay have dropped their prices. I got a darth maul costume for my son for $11.00 including ship when retail is around $35 plus tax.

fyi!!!

we dont have that title, we talk about it in the leadership committee meetings and it seems to end up that there are a few folks that take on certain events or are assigned them. The CC seems to be the one who makes sure the permits are done.

gwd - I think Palin is the "gal you would like to shoot a moose from a plane with"!!!

a few of the above issues:

credit card rates depend on your credit - I have a few I admit. I dont want to create a pity party but due to a financial issue with my mom, we did take on more credit than I wanted. If not she would have been on the "alpo" diet and/or living on the street. We owned her mobile home and when she went into a nursing home (she has advanced alzheimers/dementia and I am an only child) we had to continue to pay her rent for over a year until we could sell it for a loss. If not for supporting my mom we would probably live in a million plus home now as we would have been able to afford more as we had supported her for close to 20 years. But I wouldnt trade it as I can look myself in the mirror and sleep at night.

Bottom line is dont ASSUME that folks with credit card debt are ALL out there remodeling their kitchens, buying Hum v's and taking trips to France. Many of us are helping family members, putting kids through college, paying for medical/dental care, etc.

A side note - we have union health etc benefits which have been excellent in the past. This past week I went to the dentist as I have two back teeth which need crowns. Due to changes in our dental plan and changes in the dentist's practice, instead of having a $200 out of pocket I would have a $1500 out of pocket. So my choice? I can wait. My cubbie needs major work so due to the economy I will probably pass on needed dental work. THESE issues are happening DAILY to folks these days.

Socialized medicine - pretty much what we personally have now. So I am in favor of socialized medicine.

If you have Kaiser or an HMO dental or vision plan, you already have socialized medicine.

this is a slippery slope.

1) first, we are in a recession/depression (pick your "ession"). My husband has said literally he will not ask folks to buy stuff as we dont know the financial situation of everyone and he doesnt want to impose. And this is a person who has been in sales over 20 years. We are in a nice neighborhood and there are at least 5 EMPTY homes for sale within a mile radius.

2) second, since school started in September, we have had 5 OTHER fundraisers between the schools my kids go to. We cant do everything. I dont want my child to be that annoying one who everytime you open the door they want you to buy something.

3) third, just like the derby, the parent participation makes or breaks most boys. There are several boys in our pack whose parents pound the streets and "fill it up" on the form - good for them. There are others who have told me they just take the form to work, set it down, and they fill it up without the boy being involved. Then there are companies who prohibit solicitation, usually because of union issues. Which is the situation my hubbie is in. And I work at home.

So just because the boy has sold more doesnt mean the BOY has sold more.

Dont get me wrong, I applaud those who do it with the boy. But that is not necessarily the highest percent. A lot of the school based fundraisers have these glamorous prizes like lunch with your friends in a limo, or a Nintendo Wii. My daughter has a friend whose dad is a pilot - he takes all the stuff to work and she has gotten 90% of the top prizes for each thing.

I just dont like this "you are bad" if you dont sell a lot and "good" if you do.

fyi - my hubbie and I love the site sales. When you add in my years as a girl scout and the years with my daughter plus the last 2 with cub scouts, I have probably sold something in front of a store for at least 10 years.

Again back to the OP, the LAST issue should be how much each kid gets. The FIRST issue should be working with parents to determine a fair way to allocate sales and if they are set up individual funds.

I love that our pack is allocating it based on time vs amount. Because there are some kids that are super outgoing (like my son) and some that are very shy.

we are just starting the scout account concept. Going into my second year of Cub Scouts, I had never heard of such a thing with Girl Scouts except in the abstract ie we have about "x dollars" per girl to spend.

I think its pretty selfish to have ANY parent assume that ANY funds go to their scout. That the pack will graciously set up a fund for each boy based on their determination is what I would call "gravy".

If its an issue of financial need, you should have a fund for that which is separate.

I think it would be good to talk to the parents about the concept of a non profit organization. I worry more for the sons of these so called parents.

First thanks for bringing this to the board and sharing. My heart goes out to you.

It goes along with my theory - just because you can have kids doesnt mean you should or make you a good parent. When I see stupidity with adults I tell my eldest I have to give you the skills to protect you against their kids as we know they werent raised with our values. I cant fix the other childs family, but I can give you the skills to deal with them.

My biggest concern about scouting is communication between what I keep assuming are responsible adults.

I know you have reasons to keep the confidentiality but here is my input:

If its about any sexual issues including sexual preference, alleged impropriety with another child, male or female or anything of that nature, the folks doing the accusation should have been brought in IMMEDIATELY and spoken too. And the childs parents should be informed.

If its about stealing or bullying I would also have the same stance.

If its about a lesser evil, I would have brought in the parents together and tried to talk through it.

Seriously I am getting really tired of the issue of grown people not being able to talk to each other. Its like have the proverbial 500 lb gorilla in the room, get it out, get past it. It will STRENGTHEN the group. Going through adversity and FIXING issues should cement the bond of the pack and leadership and not blow it out of the water.

Once lawyers are involved in some ways its too late, but I would try to do a scout "arbitration".

Again good luck. I do not envy your position. And my heart goes out to the scout.

so pack have to change the mood and give the link to the Darwin Awards - my annual fav!

http://www.darwinawards.com/

From all I have read we probably are at least a year away from the bottom.

Thank goodness for Student Loans. When I went to college we did not have any money and I paid off my loan over a number of years. Unfortunately with our ages and the market that is what my kids will have to do.

we have all had "that boss" or "that teacher" who we will never forget because they taught you and inspired you. Emulate that person.

Here is my input:

1) be REAL. be yourself and down to earth. This is scouts, not congress. Be approachable and friendly.

2) give realistic advice. Better to have real life from experience examples not what the book says.

3) realize your audience. I really think that leadership training should be less about rules and more about how to be a leader. Being given a leadership role doesnt make you a leader. Your actions do.

4) have a sense of humor. The best bosses/teachers you can have fun with yet maintain a professional relationship.

5) admit your lack of knowledge and mistakes. Dont blame others or try to get around a problem. Face it head on.

6) Authority and responsibility go hand in hand. Dont make other responsible without giving them the authority to follow up.

7) Be the kind of leader YOU would follow.

I feel like if leaders acted more like professionals it would be better off for all.

resign.

In your letter and ANY communications be not only nice but nicey nice, sickeningly sweet nice. In the letter state that you are very busy and need to select only the most important tasks for your valuable time. And because they are not sure of the importance or necessity of the position, you need to refocus on other aspects of you and your family's life.

Tell them that you would be happy to discuss returning when there is a written job description including estimated time/week and assistant positions. You just dont have the time at the moment to figure all this out and when they do, let you know.

I would ALSO be VERY verbal about this to others, again in an overly nice way. Like "it was too bad that this happened as they just werent clear on the position and what it entailed. So as soon as THEY decide what I am doing and what people who help me are doing, I need to refocus my time."

This is Personnel 101. My best friend for close to 20 years was a HR director for years and she can spit this stuff off without practice.

You can say its 100% their screw up without saying it.

fuzzy math huh? funny, good point.

So I guess I should move to North Dakota, take up hunting, use an outhouse, and start talking like Beavah? right?

I hear remnants of the old "when I was a kid I had to walk 20 miles in the snow in bare feet to school" it is just hilarious.

Time waits for no man - dont remember who said it, but its true.

Bottom line is as I always say, it is what it is. We are where we are and to say that would have, should have, could have will fix it is wrong. There are folks who made bad choices. Oh well. Lets look FORWARD and think about the realities of folks with a several hundred thousand dollar reduction of house value, a drop in the "retirement" funds of the 401k's and tightening of the credit market.

At my age, it really wont affect me other than paying for my kids college. My husband has a pension and we will have social security. But there are lots of folks younger than me in their 30's who may or may not be able to recover. What happens as they have kids go to college and think about retirement?

Thank you SO much for this thread.

My son and hubbie got back yesterday from a weekend scout trip. They were filthy, muddy (it rained) and exhausted. And had a GREAT time! So even though I have a living room full of dirty stinky clothes to wash, and supplies to put away, THIS is also the meaning of scouting. Kids being kids.

My hubbie was saying when he got home that when he was a kid he and the neighbors used to go climb trees and run around, and do stuff like that. Our kids don't have the opportunity to do that a lot because we live in the "burbs". And I never had these opportunities either as a child living in Southern California Suburbs.

I am grateful to scouting to give my son these experiences that not only help him be more self sufficient but allow him to just be a kid and play Star Wars with sticks and not battery powered ones or Wii numchucks.

I remember in my first managerial job years ago, when I was very young, and took a seminar by our company on personnel policies. The question was posed to us was, what is the purpose of the process of documenting and speaking to employees.

My answer was to provide documentation to support a termination. The teacher said "no its to change the behavior and try to save the employee".

We all know folks who have been fired without knowing why or understanding it.

Most of the leaders in a pack have no leadership or practical managerial experience. However they are supposed to learn by osmosis? If you were in their shoes, would you rather have someone pull you aside and tell them the truth or have them leave very angry at the organization.

Everything you do reflects on scouting. And everything they do and say if they leave does also.

here is a link to the SNL skit. If you saw the whole show, you know they dinged Dems as much as Republicans (see sketch about the bailout)

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/vp-debate-open-palin-biden/727421/

It is funny beginning to end as as with last weeks Couric/Palin interview, much is actual wording from the debate.

This is the number I found fyi for anyone who also feels strongly about this:

BSA legal concerns: 972-580-2000

I would think they would be interested again in light of the legal issue here in SD with the lease.

What is interesting is that it appears that this individual was originally in the San Francisco area council so I am unclear other than the fact that he lives in Rancho Santa Fe (which is the Beverly Hills of San Diego County).

I just read this and I cant sit back on this one. I will be calling the national office.

this was a HUGE political issue in San Diego with regard to the land they use in San Diego.

here is the wikipedia summary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnes-Wallace_v._Boy_Scouts_of_America

I just think that it takes balls to flaunt this after this fight.

Voting is a very personal choice based on your core beliefs. Being in the San Diego Council I have SERIOUS issues with this choice. It makes it appear that the scouts as a GROUP have this position, and no one speaks for me but me.

When people ask me to sign ballots in front of super markets I always say NO as I do not sign anything I cannot read about and research pro's and con's. Because I want to make sure the issue corresponds to my core beliefs.

this just adds to my perception of our council as very unprofessional overall.

"GROW UP and face the consequences! Let the market take its toll. Learn to live within our means. Pay our bills on time. Be responsible in our financial matters. Take responsibility for our mistakes. Teach these things to our children.We've failed miserably in these things so far and the passage of this bill will just be one more notch for another failure."

PULLLEEZ! I had a great boss years ago who taught me a great lesson - dont come to me with a problem unless you have a solution.

So to say okay we will just let all these individuals who got us to this place as well as companies (builders who overbuilt and walked away from partially done tracts, people whose mortgage payments will go up 50% or more, etc) fix themselves?

In San Diego county, here is the impact. Rents have gone through the roof as folks lose their home and have to rent. There are 2 tracts, one close and one about 7 miles away, where builders just walked away from the property. One tract would have been in the $800k range, the other by Barrett American is homes in the $1.5 mill plus range - these are now empty half built homes. Lenders are shutting down financing to builders who yes are to blame but do we just let them go under and have the rest of the surrounding property go down?

solutions?

read the George Will link - no solutions I can find, more blaming.

So we all suck. Great.

How do we fix the banks and the market? the money is spent, on credit, in homes, etc. And each day I see more homes for sale. I check them on zillow and most were under water compared to purchase date.

Enough moralizing. Solutions?????