Scouter&mom

I think it really does depend on how prepared you are. Being in the deep south, our boys would not be prepared for the cold weather. As Beavah mentioned us Southerners just don't usually have the skills to deal with it. Most of our boys don't have the proper clothes and equipment for type weather. Most of the boys at my son's high school only have one winter coat -- their letter jacket, unless they hunt so they might have a coat or coveralls for that.

How much autonomy does the district committee or a district event committee have? Especially from the professionals? We have a district camporee coming up, that a committee of experienced volunteers have been planning for a while. This committee consists of SM's and ASM's several of whom have chaired previous camporees. Can the committee really not send out leader's guides without the DE's approval? This event is basically a duplicate, with a few updates and changes from the previous one. We are in a very small council with only 3 professionals (oops 4, they hired a new one first of the year after a 9 month vacany). Our district has not had a chairman in over two years, and the previous one had not made an appearance at a scout event in over a year. Long story short, there is a group of about 10-12 scouters involved in everything to run the district. Do we really have to get the DE blessing to proceed running the district events or can we do what needs to be done and provide the program to our boys?

VP of program Planning? Training frequent enough that all can get it shortly after joining? Training that is available soon after registration, before role is changed (especially for Cub Leaders).

Wow!! I want to change districts and councils.

If our council has a VP of Program planning, I don't know who it is. Our program planning for council (and district to a degree) is done in several marathon sessions by the volunteers who will be heading up various events. As coordinator (dean if you like that term) of UoS and member of district training committee, I am a member of the program planning committee. We like many small councils don't have but one major training day a year. We have attempted to hold scheduled training within the individual districts and it is just too hard to get instructors for everything you need and get enough students to show up to make it worth your while. The last two or three years, we have just had an annual UoS that we rotate the location from district to district and gotten much better turnout. That being said when we put it on the calendar, at about the same time of the year each year, no other district or council event is scheduled for the same time. That day is TRAINING DAY.

Some district events get moved based on district committee advice, but council events have dates set pretty far in advance. This month we have our final meeting to set the calendar for next year. Going from the end of summer camps through summer camps (and Jambo 2010).

We do tend to set things on a pretty standard schedule. This year our Webelos Weekend got moved from Nov (where it has been for a number of years) to September, because the CE thought we should include swimming. Well the leaders all complained, because it was only 2-3 weeks after school night signups and many of the boys were too new. I am happy to say that fall of 2009, it will be back to November.

As Lisa suggested, let the planners of the events know about your conflicts and maybe even volunteer to help with some.

Program planning is a perfect example of the 20/80 theory-- 20%of the people do 80% of the work.

I have to agree with gwd-scouter. The ship is HOT in the summer. I haven't done the sleep on the ship, but I did tour in June. The best places on the ship were sitting in the snack bar directly in front of a fan and the captains galley which does have AC. I know many that have done the trip at various times and say they do a great job, they have several different programs for different ages.

You didn't say where you were coming from or where in the Carolinas/Tennessee you hope to camp. Also, do you really want to hike in and out, when you will be climging 9 million steps in the ship? I remember a trip I took a group of scouts on and one adult commented that she (and her kids) enjoyed the trip because we didn't turn it into an endurance march.

Maybe she should talk to son's teachers.. I know can't have Scout meeting at school, but I would be willing to bet teachers would work with boy outside of school hours.. Take a look at what boy is doing in school and approach the teachers about being a counselor for those subjects. Be sure and show them the requirements for a merit badge. For example, band director could be counselor for music and bugling. Science teacher could be counselor for a number. Since registering as MB counselor only is no cost registration... and teachers have already done background checks.... most would be willing to register and counsel a couple of boys at a time.. Remember to ask middle school, high school, vo-tech and college teachers that you know.

Also depending on geography, there might be a counselor for another council that is close enough to work with.

Oh yeah, has the boy asked other boys who they use for merit badges? Maybe just first aid counselor is having time issues right now. The scout may just have time conflicts with the one counselor. Go ahead and start on another while he is trying to work first aid out. He can do several at a time and take as long as he needs to complete one. There is no time limit as long as it is before his 18th birthday.

It's been a while since I was active as GS Leader, but I will explain how it was. Each of those special patches had a specific set of requirements depending on the age level of the girls. For example, Girl Power (the only one I remember) had some basic self esteem requirements and some recognition of female leaders/trailblazers for Brownies, but got much more into things like Title X and even rape, abuse and sexual issues for Seniors. At that time, each patch had a brochure that you could get from local service center. I haven't been in ours in a few years, so I don't know what they have anymore... besides our council is one of those was merged into a mega council.. so I know things have likely changed.

Brian,

Even if you think you can't serve on the committee, I can tell you as a member of our district's committee, we are always looking for people who can and are willing to do training.

We are a very small (membership number wise) council with small districts. We have very few district traiing events since we have a large number of experienced scouters. Just over a month ago, we held our council University of Scouting, and as chair of the event, I can honestly say that I spent more time calling and emailing asking for instructors, than I did in the other parts of planning the event. I asked for evaluations from all participants and plan to use that information to start with my planning of next years UoS based on those comments. I will try to find someone else to teach the class that students thought was disorganized and that instructor wasn't prepared. This was a class with a prebuilt syllabus that apparently the instructor didn't follow.

Teaching a class at an event doesn't take tons of time. And since many of the "required" classes have pre-built syllabus, it doesn't take too long to prepare for them. If you have had the class, and some experience you should be qualified to teach the class. Our council has had a couple of trainer classes, but I don't know of anyone who was refused the opportunity to teach if they had the desire.

Yes, I don't mind telling Parents our den will camp later, but I really hate for our parents to lose their money. Thanks for the info on who will be the decision maker. That lets me know who to contact and push as necessary.

Registration for one Webelo and one adult is $27.. meals are not included. Den (adults and boys) will be cooking. Our den has set cost for food at $15 per pair, and the pack will absorb any we go over when we buy groceries. We are in a very poor socio-economic area and many of our parents are already reluctant to spend $42 to take one boy camping for the weekend. We will be using the troop's stoves and cooking equipment.

The projected path of Ike is different from network to network and has changed westward (away from us) on some forecasts in the last several hours, but until Ike clears Cuba, anything can really happen.

Okay, I guess I wasn't clear. My concern right now is a council Webelo campout. It will be at council camp (about 30 miles from CO). Webelos dens camp for two nights and work on activity pins or skills to transition to Boy Scouts. The event is council event and is planned and run by a committee of volunteers. I am a den Leader and only involved in planning for our packs Webelos dens. Right now, the path of Ike is still extremely unsure. We have 6 Webelos who were in CS last year and have camped, but we have 15 who have just joined the pack within the last couple of weeks at school nights and most have no camping experience. I am leary of a weekend of constant or torrential rain being their introduction to camping.

My questions are if Ike looks like it is coming this way... Should I be able to get refunds of registration from council office if we cancel due to weather? And yes, it is enough to worry about! Groceries won't be bought until Thursday, so that is not an issue. Who at council level has authority/responsibility to call the event if weather is too threatening?

I am in an inland council, but parts are within 50 miles of coast. We have had lots of rain, wind and flooding from hurricanes and tropical storms over the years. For others of you that deal with tropical weather, how much time before an event do you cancel/change plans?

Several weeks ago, we changed our troop camp-out to a camp-in in the church social hall due to TS Fay. We ended up having 9" of rain that weekend, and a tornado watch all weekend, and a couple of radar indicated tornado warnings. The boys cooked on stoves on the covered back entrance, and managed to do most of their activities either in the gym or under the large covered drive area.

Now, I see predictions that Hurricane Ike may be in the Eastern Gulf of Mexico and possibly come our way next weekend. That is the weekend our council Webelo-Ree is scheduled. I sure hate the idea of taking those kids and parents (including the new kids and parents who have never camped) to spend the weekend in the rain (and possibly worse). At what point, understanding the vagaries of hurricanes, should we expect the council to make a determination as to go or no go? Or should we? If they don't cancel, but storms are promised, should there be some way to get a refund on the registration fees? (I feel they are excessive, but that's another story) I know if I were the parent of a Webelo who had never camped, I would want to bail on camping in the kind of weather we had last month and would like to see a refund of the money I had paid.)

I collect actual arrows from my friends that shoot bows. I get them to give me their broken/bent arrows with fletching/feathers intact. I then cut to approx 15 in, and hot glue a wooden arrowhead on them, decorate with some leather strips and feathers. The boys think they are cool because they are "real" arrows. I have used wooden cut out Christmas trees as the arrow head, just take a wire brush on drill and buff edges a bit, then stain with stain or brown shoepolish. This is a "thrifty" arrow that also embraces recycling and re-use of discarded products.

PM if you want a picture, I can email.

NLE 2004

SM/ASM specific 2004

IOLS 2005

Web DL 2005

Neil and Snoring Bear both mentioned daughters dating/marrying Eagle Scouts. My daughter who was active in GS until she moved with college is also engaged to an Eagle Scout. My daughter actually credits her soon to be Eagle (hopefully) brother with her meeting her fiance. He is mgr of Scout Shop in her college town and she went to shop with me and her brother to look for something our local council shop didn't have. She went back to get her brother a birthday present, was remembered by and soon was dating "her" Eagle Scout.

Just curious how many times, having a Scouting family influences a young person to date/marry a fellow Scout.

Sounds like you are doing what lots of troops do (although probably in reverse). They often have younger Scout patrols, so that they can learn the basics in their patrol. Also many outings are restricted by age, rank, or skills requirements. I think it would work; however, you need to talk to the adventurous boys. Would they really go if THEY re-structured patrols so that they could do patrol outings? Would the parents buy off on it? We see parents that are concerned about letting their kids do more adventurous activities. Some are more comfortable if there are older Scouts, who the parents think are more experienced.

I would say go for it. I expect our new Scout patrol (moved up in March) will produce a Senior Patrol Leader within a year. This young group is ready to set the world on fire. Two are already asking for Den Chief training, to go help the younger boys get ready for Boy Scouts.

Does anyone know how long the standard syllabus for Den Chief training recommends the class take? I dont' have a syllabus handy and can't find anything on Natl's website. I can probably get the syllabus from someone at the council next week, but since today I am trying to work out the schedule for a training day I need to know before I can get someone with the council to look for me.

I just need to know if it is 1 hour or 3 hours or what.

Thanks for the help

I, like Scotteng, am an ocean and water person. The idea of being out in the brown dry high country doesn't encourage me to give up my limited vacation time and money to go to training. Besides Sea Base being more attractive type place for me, it is also much closer to home. I can drive it in one day easily, where it would take several to get to Philmont. Flying isnt a real option, since I am several hours from an airport that goes anywhere.

I hope the Seabase training goes well, I can't make it in 2009, because all my time is already allocated for several family events, including, hopefully an Eagle ceremony, a fiftieth anniversary for my parents, and my daughters wedding to her Scout. I have already said if they have the training in 2010, I will go. I even asked one of my good friends who is also a water person, to consider going and sharing ride with me.

We move the boys up in February at Blue and Gold. This allows us to spend the fall working on BS skills, like tents, and menu planning and get in a camping trip or two. Maybe even join the Boy Scouts on a fall campout. We have BS camporee in late March or early April so the boys still have the better part of two months to become part of the troop before camporee.

This is the plan I hope to follow next fall with the Webs den that I am going to be DL for. (I am excited about going back to Webelos from Boy Scouts.) They are lots of fun and I enjoy getting them all excited about making the transition to Boy Scouts.

I am going back to Cubs with glee. We finally have enough adults for the troop, so I am able to go back to Cubs. I will be the Webelos den leader (again), giving me the opportunity to help introduce boys and parents to Boy Scouting and the new experiences they will soon be able to enjoy. My son is 17 and was thrilled a few years ago, when I got to move back to Webelos and help bring up a new group of Scouts. Your son would probably be glad to know you were involved without being right underfoot. Having the room to grow without a parent right there is a big deal to them.

Just last week at our Cub program planning meeting, we discussed that we really needed someone with experience to come in a be "coach" for all the new Tiger dens and den leaders.

Our CO turns over basically the entire church campus to Scouts on Monday nights. Cubs, Boy Scouts and all ages of Girl Scouts too. Since there are several buildings with various size rooms, we get to spread out. All Cub dens meet in various rooms that open into large activity room. Dens meet 3 weeks and pack meets in large activity room on 4th week. Having everyone meet at the same time makes it easier if someone can't be there.. we may combine two dens for the night or borrow leadership from another. The other advantage is that retention is so much better when the entire family can have Scout meetings at the same time. It also allows the Cubs to get to know the older boys and vice versa. I would recommend if it works for your pack to give it serious thought. Oh yeah, Mondays are chaos with lots of kids running around, but many of our kids have transferred to us, because it works for their family.

Okay, I am talking extension cords for summer camp only. We are in the deep south, where it was over or near 100 degrees each day, temps at night only slightly lower, and no breeze anywhere in the wooded campsite. Humidity was never below 90%. Sleeping a night or two in that kind of heat is doable, but come on, a week is not a great introduction to Scouts for all the first years we had. I work on a Marine base, and every afternoon as I left work to head to camp, either the red or black flag was flying for the weather. If the Marines aren't supposed to be doing physical activity because of the heat, aren't 11 year olds allowed a little breeze.

So now to my question, how do you deal with heat in a canvas tent? I don't know enough about them to try to guess. Or does no one who uses them have an issue with heat? I can see how they would be great for cold weather, but cold is not an issue here. There are probably less than 30 days a year when temp goes below 32 and never below zero.

Question on the canvas... How do you keep cool in the canvas? Here we usually only camp a couple of weekends when the temp even gets below freezing? We have canvas frame tents at camp, and we run miles of extension cord for fans so that everyone can sleep. We actually had one night this year, while the troop was at camp that the temp got below 65. It seems so much easier to adjust the fly and open the window on a dome tent to let some breeze in-- if any breeze even exists.

I will agree that NO was not prepared for Katrina, and there were some issues where bueuracray got in the way of sound decisions. But NO is not the only place that has happened. Back in 94, we had the floods that made the national news. The town I was living in was at the juncture of a major river and two large creeks (river size). The river and one of the creeks have power dams and lakes that control water level. Our flooding came from upstream, too much rain burst too many ag pond dams, and we had more water than anyone knew what to do with. No one was expecting the amount of water we got here. As the water was flowing across major streets within two blocks of my house, the local law enforcement had no clue what was happening. I think they issued evacuation orders and then rescinded them at least twice for my neighborhood. The block behind me was flooded and the ball park a block in the other direction had 3 foot catfish in it. We had people that were rescued by boat, and we had caskets washing down river (no recently dead for us -- instead it was the 100 year dead we had floating). Yes, there were low income people that were flooded, but there were also businesses and nice homes that were flooded too. Here just like in NO, there were people blaming anyone they could blame. Reports of looting and people cruising the streets looking for trouble.

I think the sheer numbers of people that were involved in NO was what kept it in the media so frequently. I am sure the FEMA trailers will show up in the Midwest where they are needed, and likely FEMA and the RED Cross will be helping people relocate from shelters to hotels, and then into slightly more permanent temporary housing. You got to let the water go down, before you can start rebuilding. Clean up has already started in the more northern flood areas. Help came to my rural area of the south, and I am sure it will come to the Midwest.

Our troop has a scout backpack that we encourage them to bring to every Scout event. We purchase "school type" packs on clearance, out of season, and present them to the boys when they are inducted into the troop. We have them put handbook, paper and pencils in their bag. I was happy to see all remembered them for summer camp and used them throughout the week.

We have not had them put the other "essentials' in their pack, but I really like the idea. Several of them did Emer Prep or Wild Surv at camp. I will have to check with them, and have them lead the charge towards making their packs a true Scout Essentials Pack.

Because I finally get to be a Boy Scout!!

I actually grew up with my dad as an ASM when I was small, then my cousins and brother doing cool things in Scouting. I always wanted to be a Boy Scout. I was jealous that they got to camp and hike and boat more than I did. I always did outdoor things, just couldn't find a Girl Scout troop in my area that did.

When my oldest was ready to join Brownies, I was a little skeptical, because she had been an outdoorsy kid too. Well she joined a troop with a great leader, who was willing to do anything with the girls. As she moved up, I became a leader for a few years and really enjoyed it. During this time, my son joined Cub Scouts (at the same CO). It was a very small pack, and he lost interest after the third year of "the same old thing". He and I dropped out, I went to graduate school and dealt with some other life changing events. Just after he turned 12, we ran into the SM at the local mall, and he invited my son to come back to Scouting. I carried him to first meeting, thinking I could sit in the truck and just read a book during the meeting. Well it wasn't long before my truck and I were needed. That was 5 years ago. I am now ASM, on district training committee, and pack trainer. I think even after my son is no longer a Scout, I will continue on. I love helping the younger boys and really am looking forward to being a Webelos den leader again.

I think Scouting is something that just came naturally to me, and also to my children. My son has applied through our Council to go to Jambo 2005 as 3rd ASM. He is already planning a space derby for the CS pack after his 18th birthday next spring and plans to stay active with troop and pack. My daughter is registered with her old troop as a leader and was active until she moved out of town for her last three years of college. She is planning to find a GS troop where she is now to work with (as soon as she gets a job). She is also involved with BS where she is now. She is the council Disability Awareness committee chair and has taught working with Scouts with disabilities at UoS. Oh yeah, it is staying in the family. She is engaged to a Scouter who is active with his troop, on the district level, and one of the adult advisors for his OA lodge.

Oh yeah forgot to add my dad who is 84 is still member of committee of his old troop. One of my best friends from high school (who was in the troop) is now SM and his wife is CM.(This message has been edited by Scouter&mom)

As a member of the district training committee, I have seen how bad the "official" records the council has. Last fall, I was told there was not a registered leader in our district that showed as trained. Now we are not a large council or district, but I know many of the Scouters have been Scouters for over ten years and have not just completed Woodbadge, but staffed it. So yes that is a nightmare. The committee chairman has written each unit leader asking for training info, and so far he has only heard from 4 units. SAD..

Our council, who has not offered BALOO or OWL, in my memory, is now saying Cubs must have a BALOO or OWL trained leader to take them camping. The OWL course scheduled for last weekend was cancelled. 4 years ago when I took IOLS, about half the class were Cub leaders, so Cub requirements and rules were discussed too. Now it is being passed from SE, or somewhere, that no one can take the Webelos camping if they have not had OWL. Now as a volunteer, asking me to take a weekend out of my busy schedule, pay to attend the class, and go to a class, that I have basically taken before is a waste of my time, money and effort. I have been to BS and Cub training (even going out of council to get more training that was not offered locally.) I can read G2SS as well as anybody (I read govt manuals and teach/analyze govt programs). I just cannot see not being able to take the Webelos to a council event or along with the troop for a joint campout, especially since I can take the Boy Scouts camping in much more rustic and dangerous places and do more dangerous activities. Go figure!