RememberSchiff
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Posts posted by RememberSchiff
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1 hour ago, Tron said:
My take on this is based on what I see in my area; member-only clubs in my area have bars on premise and allow smoking. The commercial ranges do not allow either. Could that be a national trend that BSA is looking at?
Offloading liability? As mentioned, the Hawaiian wrongful death was at a scout camp range.
I have shot at more than a dozen "commercial ranges" in NH, ME, MA, PA, VA, NV. Their facilities, staff, clientele, firearms, and safety rules vary considerably. I do not know of any uniform safety or business certification for commercial ranges; it is the Wild West regarding calibers, actions, rent/bring. That said, "commercial ranges" usually have a Range Safety officer at the firing line.
At local club ranges. often members are their own range safety officer. At those local clubs, Scout shooting activity would reserved the whole range and have their own trained RO's; insurance through the NRA.
Commercial ranges make their money from instruction, equipment, sales but mostly from rentals firing their ammo. Odd we could take Cubs camping at only council-approved camps, but we apparently take Scouts to any "commercial range". What the ... IMHO, Councils should partner with local sportmens clubs.
Regarding indoor ranges, I have shot at the same range where the Boston Marathon bomber practiced, along-side Philly gang-bangers in PA, and nutjobs firing full-auto in Vegas. Air filtration (lead) at indoor ranges was a concern except at one place. Scary, never been back to any of those places. I can only recommend one indoor range for Scouts but I am not sure they allow youth or reserve range time for outside groups.
Commercial outdoor ranges are less common hereabouts - competition (local clubs and free state ranges), worry of a round getting away, noise, range vandalism, real estate costs.
My $0.01 for rambling
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Shad Stevens’ longtime dream has been to secure a property where youth can disconnect from society and reconnect with their lives.
“The dream is that we have a mountain that is able to bring youth groups from all different types," he said. "Our mission is to play with purpose, or have adventure with purpose. So our dream is that we use the mountain to help inspire young people.”
“That's my purpose. It's what I was built for. It's why I'm here," he said. "I see the unique issues our youth face in our society. And I see so much of the solution of what they're dealing with is to spend time away from it. And nowhere better to spend time than a camp like this.”
Last year, he learned the Boy Scouts of America would not renew its U.S. Forest Service special use permit at Camp Steiner. The 93-year-old camp has deep roots in the Uinta Mountains and at 10,400 feet, was the second-highest Scout camp in the world according to BSA. He said it was considered the “Flagship Camp” of the Great Salt Lake Council and was always the first camp to fill up.
The newly christened Sunrock High Adventure Base rests on the shores of Scout Lake. The property boasts staggering views of Bald Mountain, Reid’s Peak and Hayden Peak, with more than 30 lakes within a 10-mile radius...
More at Source including audio and photos:
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On 7/27/2023 at 9:42 AM, RememberSchiff said:
A "Golden Eagle" distinction is earned by a scout who accomplishes the highest scouting achievement in both Girl Scouts of America - the Gold Award - and Scouts BSA - the Eagle Rank.
Lilliann ‘Lilly’ Markowitz has earned the Gold Award in Girl Scouts, Eagle Scout in Boy Scouts and Chief Petty Officer in Sea Cadets (US Navy program not Sea Scouts).
She is believed to be the only "Chief Golden Eagle".
More at source, impressive:
Scout Salute, Well Done.
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Another decision not mentioned in National Report, FleishmanHillard ($$$) which has previously worked with the BSA, was chosen as PR Agency of Record (AOR) in November 2023 with a focus on the rebrand.
BSA Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) Michael Ramsey said his team is amplifying the organization’s message to reach youth and families across the country via national press releases and a social strategy that “leans hard into” Instagram and LinkedIn.
“We have a lot of our leaders on LinkedIn,” said Ramsey. “But video is the backbone of a lot of the things we are doing. We are also looking at media outlets that target youth and families.”
...The team particularly wants to reach moms and make them aware of all the fun and adventure involved in scouting, such as camping, hiking, boating and earning badges, said Ramsey.
Next February 8, a marketing campaign called Spring into Scouting will let older youth — children ages 11 to 18 — know about the opportunity to join scouting programs, Ramsey said
More at Source:
https://www.prweek.com/article/1872349/inside-boy-scouts-america-rebrand
My advice, if you are a going to talk to CEO, CFO MOM, be prepared to reveal the True Cost of Scouting and parental time commitment.
My $0.02,
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6 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:
I found no new rules regarding the secure (vault) storage of firearms and ammunition at camps or off-site.
My $0.02,
May 11, 2024, Mississippi Valley Council :
ADAMS COUNTY, Ill. - An ammunition shed at Saukenauk Scout Reservation’s shotgun range caught fire Thursday, destroying $8,000 of ammo.
Mississippi Valley Council Scout Executive Ricci Dula said the shed, constructed as a Wood Badge project, was gutted leaving debris on the range. Only leaders and the reservation’s ranger were onsite at the time.
“We’re still determining the cause of the fire,” Dula said. “Nobody was harmed or at any risk of being harmed. The Mendon Fire Department did an exemplary job; the fire could have been considerably worse. It was about 25 feet away from a propane tank and another structure.” (One report said the cause was burning trash. )
The fire also wiped out Camp Saukenauk’s supply of guns, some of which were used during the Sporting Clays for Scouts event on Wednesday...
More at sources including video and photos:
https://www.wgem.com/2024/05/11/camp-saukenauk-ammunition-building-destroyed-fire/
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6 hours ago, skeptic said:
Probably trace this directly to Hawaii I think. No changes noted for archery.
Agreed. I do not know the settlement of the wrongful death suit (August, 2023) against Aloha Council/BSA.
Some random concerns
I do not understand why "commercial ranges" are assumed safer than member-only sportsmen clubs (prohibited?) or more cooperative with an outside group program.
This will likely end Council relationships with local, non-commercial sportsmen club which not only teach firearm safety and marksmanship but often host Klondike Derbies and scout fundraising events (turkey shoots, clay-breaking).
The Marksman Experience at Bechtel will have to drop high-powered rifle after Sept 1. Long distance shooting, e.g. 1000 yards ends. .30-06 (center-fire) shooting at Philmont will end. Will Philmont Sportsman Adventure end?
Unit shooting teams? Some members buy and use their own rifles for competitions. Back in the day, here he goes again, I bought and used my own rifle to earn Marksmanship Merit Badge. I still shoot my old Mossberg 340.
I found no new rules regarding the secure (vault) storage of firearms and ammunition at camps or off-site.
IMHO, hunter education and firearm instruction will be a safe and fun family activity outside of Scouting.
My $0.02,
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38 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:
So many questions...
Can those programs that now have the NRA FIRST Steps Pistol do that at a commercial range??
https://www.nrainstructors.org/search.aspx
Note the Search at bottom
For NRA FIRST Steps Pistol, BSA Only or Youth Only, All Available, I found no courses in 6 New England states.
Course availability needs to be examined further. There are fewer NRA/BSA instructors and some courses have a limited demand.
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2022 National Shooting Sports Manual (298 pages)
www.scouting.org/outdoor-programs/Shooting-Sports
IMHO, there should be separate manuals for Archery and Firearms.
Regarding program name change "Range and Target Activities", will that include horseshoes, cornhole, beanbag toss, pumpkin chunking?
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5/7/2024: 2023 Annual Report released.
The Key 3 (President/CEO Roger Krone, National Chair Brad Tilden, National Commissioner Scott Sorrels) state
We hope you will join us in this important work. Our nation, our communities and our future leaders need the values, grit, and leadership skills that Scouting instills. Your support is critical as our youth continue Scouting America.
Includes membership numbers, no financial report.
https://www.scouting.org/about/annual-report/year2023/
P.S. Short on content, but might this also be submitted late as the Report to the Nation?
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Of course, a name change on 9/1/24. Effective September 1, 2024, Scouting’s Shooting Sports programs within all programs including Cub Scouting, Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouting will be referred to as Range and Target Activities. No non-commercial club ranges - nationally authorized camp property’s range(s) or at a commercial firearm range only. Venture sporting programs have taken a hit..
excerpt
[9/1/2024 Shooting Sports Program Updates
Effective September 1, 2024, Scouting’s Shooting Sports programs within all programs including Cub Scouting, Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouting will be referred to as Range and Target Activities.
Note: As a reminder, the updated Cub Scout program effective June 1, 2024 includes elective adventures versus awards for Cub Scouts. These elective adventures can still only be offered at an accredited camp program (day camp, short-term camp, long-term camp) or a council organized one day event. For information on delivering these new elective adventures, please visit the shooting sports website.
In addition, effective September 1, 2024, the following changes will affect the range and target activities within Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouting. All other current Scouting range and target activities policies as indicated in the National Shooting Sports Manual remain unchanged and must be followed. These changes will be reflected in the National Shooting Sports Manual on September 1, 2024 and will be updated periodically. Additional information regarding these changes can be found on the Shooting Sports FAQ website.
- Firearm programs may only take place on a nationally authorized camp property’s range(s) or at a commercial firearm range. This does not apply to district or council programs that utilize BB devices*, but applies to pellet rifles, airsoft (any type), rifles, pistols, shotguns, and muzzle loading rifles and shotguns.
- The use of personal firearms and personal ammunition is prohibited in all Scouting programs at nationally authorized camp properties. Personal firearms and personal ammunition may be used at a commercial firearm range, subject to restrictions regarding caliber, gauge, and action as described in the National Shooting Sports Manual and herein.
- At a minimum, all Scouts BSA troops, Venturing crews, and Sea Scout ships who provide unit-level sponsored/planned range and target activities must have at least one registered unit leader 21+ years of age take the Range Activity SAFEty online training. This trained adult leader must be present at the range. The training is recommended for all unit leaders in Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouting. Note this training does not replace the requirements for certified NRA firearms instructors and range safety officers. This training will be available beginning 9/1/2024.
More at source:
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From Newsweek
"An online petition is calling for the Boy Scouts of America to reverse its planned name change...The name change, which is expected to go into effect on February 8, 2025—coinciding with the organization's 115th anniversary—sparked fierce backlash on social media."
Sources:
https://www.newsweek.com/boy-scouts-america-name-change-backlash-petition-1899301
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So far this appears to be the only direct, unfiltered presentation to us from NAM 2024.
Thank you and Scout Salute to Scouter Selby (note Assistant Scoutmaster patch)
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12 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:
sapling
Even if they're 2-3 m tall? I thought saplings were much smaller.
Definitions vary, but generally a sapling is defined as within a diameter (less than 4-5 inches) at a certain height (4.5ft) aka the diameter breast height (dbh) and not by the height of tree. Saplings can be quite tall (over 10ft) depending on species, sun exposure, and soil condition.
Height of Tallest Saplings in 10 year old Appalachia Hardwood Clearcuts
https://www.fs.usda.gov/ne/newtown_square/publications/research_papers/pdfs/scanned/OCR/ne_rp381.pdf
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Canada wildfire destruction...and now an online tree planting fundraiser from Scouts Canada and Canada's Forest Trust Corporation (CFT) - $10 per tree with choice of tree and region but there's more...
"Through a digital forest intelligence dashboard, Scouts and supporters will access custom impact data, such as the forest's location, age, species, estimated carbon storage, and a climate learning centre."
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7 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:
... sometimes we ditched the tent when backpacking and brought two tarps to construct a lean-to either on private land with permission to take a few .. what's the English word for young tall tree about as thick as a wrist?
sapling
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21 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:
Here're some additional random thoughts...
- The Congressional Charter is for the "Boy Scouts of America." (Congressional Charters do not mean much, anyway, but BSA likes to ride that hobby horse.) Will this "charter" now be defunct? Probably not, due to some legalese...
- What will the new Eagle rank patch look like?
- Will there, for the next few decades, be a bunch of "cool kids" with "BSA" on their uniforms versus "Scouting America"?? Will there be a run on buying up old logo uniforms?
- What will we change the words to one of our favorites camp songs to?? http://usscouts.org/songs/ifiwerent.asp
- Will there be a re-boot of the Fred McMurray classic, Follow Me, Boys! https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060420/ Will Kurt Russell reprise his role as Whitey, and now be the Scoutmaster in Follow Me, Kids!
- Does my BSA memorabilia collection now increase in value? (At least, the items that say "BSA" on them...) Is it time to insure my collection?? 😜 Especially stamps and coins:
- Will we have an "Auld Lang Syne" party to say goodbye to 115 years of tradition?
Another random thought, it does explain why Jim Kirk was never a Boy Scout.
https://y.yarn.co/193eb197-66ad-4b5c-843a-0519c7779c8b.mp4
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22 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:
As long as it's consensual, I don't care.
"Sexual activity is prohibited in Scouting."
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3 minutes ago, DannyG said:
There is only one scouting organization in the US that serves all youth. GSUSA is Girl Scouts and Girl Guides.
Here are some scouting organizations in the US that unlike the BSA serve all youth, even atheists.
Navigators USA - "The Navigators USA alternative scouting program was created to include everyone, and to help each person develop their fullest potential without discrimination. We aim to establish a world without prejudice or ignorance, and to treat every person with respect, no matter their race, creed, lifestyle, or ability. Navigators USA Is A Welcoming & Secular Scouting Program"
Outdoor Service Guides (OSG) - Formerly Baden-Powell Service Organization. they changed their name too in 2021. "OSG believes that all people and all families should have an equal place in the scouting movement. We welcome scouts and their families as they come to us, and we will do our best to make scouting and its activities accessible to every child or adult who wishes to join. We welcome everyone, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion (or no religion), or other differentiating factors. We believe that scouting is for everybody. We welcome those who have scouted a long time and those who have never tried scouting before joining us."
https://outdoorserviceguides.org/
Spiral Scouts
https://www.spiralscouts.org/about_us
Another $0.01,
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7 hours ago, FireStone said:
I feel like the name change helps remove a distraction, the constant complaining from folks who still felt like the name "Boy Scouts of America" was some kind of mandate that girls not be allowed. Removing the basis of that argument ("Boy" in the main organization name) means there is no argument anymore. It's part of the org name, it's codified into the primary brand identity. It's done, we can (finally) move on from having to defend the contradiction in the name.
I have found "duty to God" more of a stumbling block for potential members and their families than the name "Boy".
“It (the rebranding) sends this really strong message to everyone in America that they can come to this program, they can bring their authentic self, they can be who they are and they will be welcomed here,” Krone said.
Will atheists also be welcomed? Will the DRP be removed from the youth membership application (524-406)? Will the BSA Scout Oath (duty to God) and Law (A Scout is Reverent) be changed?
What was learned from girls BSA membership pilot program from 5 years ago that will be applied to this pilot program?
A lot of questions.
Another $0.01,
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A broader welcoming? a distraction? ... maybe a lifeboat for upcoming Supreme Court and bankruptcy decisions. Old brand sunsets, new brand rises.
Remember the old 5 year plans with metrics (largely not met). Now we have 5 month plans developed from "surveys" with no metrics.
How much will this cost? What youth membership numbers will we see by Feb, 2025. So is local option void? Patrol method? Does the Federal Charter for the BSA end?
What restructuring will be done to improve efficiency and reduce costs? Could we start with completely new Bylaws?
Will we see a return of past BIG corporate sponsors who left due to our past membership policies?
My $0.01,
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My sources boogied to get a close viewing spot for tonight's Starliner launch.
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May 2, 2024:
"ST. LOUIS – U.S. District Judge Rodney W. Sippel on Thursday sentenced a former Boy Scout volunteer to 22 years in prison for hiding cameras in bathrooms at a St. Francois County, Missouri scout camp.
Judge Sippel also ordered David Lee Nelson to pay $55,000 in special assessments that will go to a fund for victims and prevention programs and $6,810 to pay for counseling for the victims in this case. After he gets out of prison, Nelson will be on supervised release for life, with special conditions that include a prohibition against any contact with minors without permission.
Nelson hid two cameras in bathrooms at the S Bar F Scout Ranch in St. Francois County in July of 2021 while working there as a volunteer. Nelson hid the cameras in paper towel dispensers, positioning them so they would capture a shower stall and other portions of the bathroom.
One camera was discovered when a scout leader and scouts were cleaning out one of the restroom stalls. A search uncovered another camera, and leaders then called the St. Francois County Sheriff’s Department. When questioned later by a sheriff’s deputy after being spotted near the bathrooms, Nelson lied and said he was looking for a cell phone charger that he’d left in the stall.
During Thursday’s hearing, victims and their parents said Nelson was supposed to be protecting the scouts and was supposed to be someone children could trust. Nelson’s crimes, they said, have now left them unable to trust others. The victims also said they now experience fear and discomfort every time they try to use a public bathroom. "
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More at source:
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The Marshall Project, according to their website, is a nonpartisan, nonprofit news organization that seeks to create and sustain a sense of national urgency about the U.S. criminal justice system....We don’t approach any issue with an outcome in mind. Our reporters examine all sides of an issue and follow the facts where they lead. We focus on criminal justice as an arena where power is often abused; our goal is to expose injustice.
Article begins discussing the tragic Sarah Birchmore case in detail.
Attorneys for the Boy Scouts responded by calling child sexual abuse a “broad societal problem.”
“This abuse can occur anywhere, even in Scouting and Explorer programs,” the attorneys wrote in a court filing. They argued that the organization wasn’t responsible for the abuse she alleged because the officer had violated Explorer policies.
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In 2022, the Boy Scouts agreed to settle with more than 82,000 people, most of them men, who said they were abused as minors in Scouting programs. The Scouting organization did not say how many Explorer cases are part of the settlement, which is now about $2.5 billion.
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Michael Johnson, a former police detective who investigated child abuse, said he became alarmed by the sexual abuse in Explorer programs after the Boy Scouts hired him in 2010 as the national director of youth protection.
“They have these Explorers with them riding around at night and the officers do a nonexistent-to-poor job of maintaining clear boundaries,” he said.
He said he tried internally to root out abuse, especially on overnight ride-alongs, though he was also publicly promoting Scouting during those years.
Johnson said the Boy Scouts fired him in 2020, and he became an outspoken critic of how the organization handled cases of abuse.
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Allegations of Explorer abuse did not always result in criminal prosecutions. Of the 156 officers identified by The Marshall Project who faced professional or legal consequences in connection with the allegations against them, at least two-thirds were criminally charged. Among those charged, about half were sentenced to time behind bars — from weekends in jail to decades in prison. And at least 20 had to register as sex offenders.
More at sources:
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/05/01/police-explorer-sexual-abuse-boy-scouts
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-explorer-boy-scouts-sexual-abuse-allegations-rcna145347
https://www.exploring.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/ridealongcertification.pdf
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4/26/24 Rally 4 Robby Trivia Night – an event to benefit the purchase of a special track-style wheelchair to help a local Boy Scout, Robby Fisher, access his backyard and basement, as well as make it easier to participate in Boy Scout activities and camps with his Special Needs Boy Scout Troop 724...
According to a SpotFund set up for Fisher, the Boy Scout camp he attends has an accessible campsite, but the rest of the camp is not accessible. In his second year of attending the camp, he was able to use a ‘Trackchair’ that allowed him more freedom to earn merit badges and even go fishing at the camp’s lake.
“Robby has a huge love for camping and hiking throughout the year and not just at Summer Camp,” the SpotFund stated. “He really needs his own Trackchair to be able to meet his goals for Eagle Scout.”
The chair would also make it easier for Fisher to access his backyard and basement at his home. Currently, whenever there is storm, Fisher and his family have to drive to Des Peres to an underground parking garage for safety, since they cannot access the basement.
more at source:
https://callnewspapers.com/boy-scout-troop-hosts-trivia-night-to-support-troop-member/
Former Camp Steiner rebranded by new lessee as Sunrock High Adventure Base (Uinta Mts, UT)
in Camping & High Adventure
Posted
Today there was a more detailed interview with photos by KSL. Shad Stevens is an Eagle Scouts:
“I grew up in it. I was a very young Eagle Scout. It was my life as a young man. I got my Eagle Scout when I was 13 years old and then I served in Order of the Arrow and with other organizations, served on junior leadership training camps and a lot as a young man,” Stevens said. “Then after I got married and came back, I immediately became a scoutmaster and served in scouting for 20 years as a scout leader in one capacity or another.”
“Last year and my wife and I went up and toured it and just immediately fell in love with what’s there and knew that this was our future,” Stevens said.
Source link below. Note the maintenance and building restrictions on historical property mentioned. I suspect that was a factor in BSA not renewing lease.
https://ksltv.com/648984/after-almost-100-years-camp-steiner-to-get-new-life-as-high-adventure-base-camp/