PNScouter

OGE, I certainly would help this youngster back to safety and proably give the man a tongue lashing. Too many people look the other way in the cases of abuse and neglect. However, in this situation, I would not be so quick to judge this man and using the words legal or "illegal" when refering to his activites with the small amount of information given seams a bit strong.

I would not hesitate to contact the CPS if I thought a child was neglected or abused. However, based on your post, the man seamed to be hot on the trail of his kids and surly was angered to see them in the road. From what you have described, I am not sure I would have called CPS. Was the situation abuse or neglect, or did the guy show poor judgement and take his eye off the kid just long enough for them to find trouble?

Wow Proud Eagle, what rotten luck.

From other posts I would have expected you to be much older. You seam wise beyond your years.

I think your first duty is to your education. But you can help. Once CC learns of the SM situation, try to convince him stay on until a new SM is found.

Maybe the CO can appoint a search committee to begin the task of finding a SM and CC. Remember they should be finding and asking qualified people not waiting for someone to volenteer.

Look at it as an opportunity to find someone even better than your last SM.

Dont sell your council short. They may be going through tough times but they still have a job to do. Your committee should inform them of the situation and ask for help.

Good Luck,

PNScouter

Easy Proud Eagle, this humble non member was not asking you to reveal secrets. I just wanted to know what the function of the secrecy was. With your post and the others I now have a better understanding of that function.

Thanks

PNScouter

Thanks for your post Eamonn. I did not know that a parent would be allow to watch the ceremonies if they wanted. I was just wondering what purpose the secrecy or semi-secrecy serves?

Why is there secrecy in OA? I know little of the organization other its a service organization for the council camp and promotes summer camping. I am not a member although if the situation presents itself I would likely join.

I had the same question come up with God & Country service time. Bob, I like your thought here. Ive got guys in OA, working on God & Country, and trying to advance. That could add up to a lot of hours if you didnt double dip somewhere along the line.

Yes that is scary. Although I will miss some of FOGs wit, you have to come to this forum with an honest point of view.

Just wondering what other name was he going by?

I like OGE's discussion on the topic. It was right on.

Eagles Rock.

I used to be and eagle.

Lurking around I have noticed that FOG has not posted lately. Just wondering where he is and if all is well.

With the sometimes heated discussions going on lately, I miss laughing out loud at my computer at some of FOGs wit.

Come on FOG, I am sure you must have something to say.

Eagle Foot:

I will take a look at this one from another perspective. I was an ASM in a Troop and had a problem with the SM. In my situation many of the youth other ASMs were also unhappy with SM. The basic problem was that SM would not allow scouts to lead the troop. SM would dictate most of the program. They are too young to lead syndrome. The COR and CO were asked to make a change in SM and they decided to retain SM. I decided in this situation that I could no longer support this Troop and would be source of conflict, so I left the troop. Other youth and adults made the same decision and we started a new troop. Best move I ever made. Our new troop is doing great and I think the old troop is also doing good. Win Win.

In your situation, I would do a self assessment. Ask yourself, what are your goals? Is the program good? Is it a boy run program? Are the scouts happy and advancing? Are you the solution or the problem?

Good Luck.

Yes, This guy scares me also.

I am curious Troop 185, could you fill me in?

How many scouts usually go on these trips? The travel times of some of your trips must be as much as 8-10 hours, how many days do you spend lets say on the trips north of the Sault? Are trips like these normal monthly trips or special trips done in the summer? What is the cost per person?

Are guys like backpacking on North Manitou Island in Lake Michigan off Leland and car camping at Sleeping Bear Dunes after the tourists have gone in the fall.

biggar,

I agree with the advice given in this forum. You must tell all of the adults in your unit ASAP. Ideally they should have known the day you joined scouting.

Just a comment,

I know a troop who bought the biggest trailer they could afford at the time. It was a big trailor that had duel axels and electric brakes. Now the trailer sits in the parking lot because the guy that had the only vehical in the troop big enough to pull it is no longer a member of the troop.

BW,

I agree that listing all the possiblities is in poor taste, but closing a thread is not the answer. How about a couple of posts to put the conversation back on track in stead?

Yes AK-Eagle,

You are right the outcome does not look good and what we say on this forum will likely not help but, I don't think anyone here wants to blame anyone. We want to learn from these forums and also provide information when we can. I do not think the criteria for closing a thread should be if a topic is a tradgedy or maybe too difficult to deal with.

If the rest of the scouters have taken from this situation what I have, then there will be some good to come of this terrible event.

I have taken from this incedent a renewed sense of responsibility for the scouts in my unit. We will review our safety procedures and improve our training and (to steel a phrase from Martha) this will be a good thing.

hop_scout,

To start, I think you are doing a great job as moderator. I only post this question to further my knowledge on how you expect these discussions to progress.

I would like further clarification on the reasoning for locking the thread. The thread was on topic. The original poster was attempting to spur discussion on the search for this young boy in the attempt to mabe by chance come up with something that had not been thought about before.

Is it second guessing? Perhaps. As a parent of a young scout I would want a free flow of thoughts if my son was in a similar situation. I would welcome all imput.

If second guessing was a criteria for locking a thread then why did you not lock the first lost scout thread? There is a lot of second guessing and monday morning quarterbacking going on in that thread.

We learn from second guessing and monday morning quarterbacking. In scouts its called a reflection. We do this to make our programs better.

When I look at the topo I see a river to the west a highway to the east that almost converge to the south. If the boy went in those directions he should have been found by now. Assuming that he would not cross these features but rather follow them. I would focus further searches to the north.

However, I fear the worst and pray for the best.

I honestly do not believe that our council uses selling popcorn as a means test for giving out camperships. Also, I believe there is no place in the campership request form for an income statement. A scout is trustworthy.

I don't care if you sell popcorn or your unit gives many hours of service to thier council. My point is you should support your council in some way.

I dont care if you participate in the popcorn sale or not, my point is you should in some way support your council. Our Troop does not generate much FOS money but we can sell popcorn.

eisley,

How do you support your council if you do not sell popcorn? Do you give 30 % of your carwash sales to the council?

From my perspective I think the production of natural gas is not a terrible thing. We all use it. Its not a bad thing. My own council camp is located in an oil field. When at camp, we go to sleep at night to the sounds of oil well pumps. Yes there is an impact to the ecosystem. But everything we do impacts the ecosystem.

Lets consider Philmont's impact to the ecosystem. Over 650000 scouts have trampled all over the hills and trails at Philmont since 1938. I am sure trying their best to practice LNT. But still there is an impact-a trampled weed, an annimal that does not like the traffic that leaves the are, an increased errosion due to heavy trail traffic. This is a sustained impact to the back country year after year after year.

We as a society decided that the impact of Philmont on the environment is acceptable. It is a wise use of the natural reasource. I think drilling for natural gas is a wise use of our natural resources. I also think it can be done with a minimal but acceptable impact to the environment.

We make these decisions every time we go to the gas pump, buy a car put food for our tables or go for a hike in a pristine wilderness.

Eye Matey,

Once you get away from the thou shall nots in the G2SS me likes Captain Jack's philosophy regarding age appropriate activities. There are only two rules to live by - What a boy can do, and what a boy can not do.

If you want a more direct answer, I think there was a thread not too long ago that had some real good discussion regarding this topic. You might want to look that up.

BW and Eamonn,

I am leaving a troop because I don't believe it is being run properly. I tried to make good changes as best as I could without success. I along with other willing parents found a sponser who shares our desire to serve the youth and not personal agends. We will begin something new and I find that exciting.

Both of you have helped educate me on the scouting program. Watching your advice pour into this forum has helped me understand the BSA process. Your knowledge of scouting is vast and I urge you guys not to keep it silent. Don't let the BS get you down.

Or, how about starting a scouting forum that you guys can respect?