BDPT00

OGE makes a valid point, and it's similar to the point I will make. Instead of all of the negativity regarding national comments or decisions, listen for a change and try to understand. So many here assume the big dogs are totally out of touch, they have no clue what they're doing, and if they do ... they're wrong.

For those who like to push this particular agenda ... the reason Venturers are not allowed in the OA is because it's a Boy Scout program, and they promote and live by the Scout Oath and Law. Venturers don't have the same Oath, so it's black and white. Now what? This plays into your hand.

Instead of fighting it (and I think the OP's reasoning was very odd, and the arguments were backwards), try to understand it, and go from there. There's always a negative knee-jerk reaction to national's comments. And people wonder why they don't say much. No matter what they say, there are those who will jump all over it. Relax, and listen. Change comes slowly, and this sounds like change. I'd think you'd embrace it!

BDPT00

Sally Ride is considered an American hero and pioneer. Sorry to see her go, but as a Boy Scout leader, I don't concern myself with someone's sexual orientation (Her sexual identity has never been of interest to me, and I don't really care).

May she rest in peace.

BDPT00

No, you don't need to wear any knots if you don't wnat to. You can wear all, some, or none. Your option.

BDPT00

Wait! Can it be stored on the belt?

Oh, never mind.

Don't give up so easily. It's really quite simple. The book tells you where everything goes. Just check it out, and do it ... don't guess. Guessing or just doing what somebody else does is where people take a wrong turn. Generally speaking, less is more ... after a while, one learns that people aren't impress by all the clutter on a shirt. Wear what you like, but put it where it belongs. Simple.

BDPT00

I don't have the book in front of me, but what I believe the spirit of IG is that the one temporary patch goes in the temporary patch position. For most that means on the right pocket. For the ladies and Cubs matter, that position would be either on the pocket or above the pocket ... not both, unless one of them happens to be a Jambo patch.

The way I worded this is probably also open to interpretation or disagreement, but the "one temporary patch" isn't taling about the Jambo patch in the BS uniform position (in my opinion). My opinion is also that it's an "either/or" regarding the ladies and Cub patch placement.

There's also a distiction regarding CD and SM for NYLT. The beads go to the SM; not the CD if that happens to be two different people.

BDPT00

Thanks. I've heard they were pushing it. Just wondered how courses were reacting. Anybody else??

BDPT00

Got a question regarding PTC: In the past, Wednesday mornings have been optional, and there have been weeks in past years when nobody meets. The question goes to any who've attended this year ... Are courses taking the whole day off, or are most meeting Wednesday morning?

BDPT00

I haven't encountered it yet. What did you think? Good, bad, or indifferent? What did they think? Did you discuss it? I've wondered about a ceremony.

BDPT00

I'm mixed on this one. If the kid is sincere, go for it. On the other hand, if one of his requests is for Jerry Sandusky or the like, I'd blow off the whole list as a poor-taste joke.

I get requests for letters, but if the kid, his unit, or his project have nothing to do with my organization, I attribute the request to someone blasting out letters to anyone they can think of, or maybe somebody else's list. I ignore those requests.

BDPT00

And that's a fine idea, but is he not already receiving the appropriate patches from the council?

BDPT00

Half right. The explanation is correct. The usage was not.

First time I'd ever written Brownsea. My bad.

I think your question is a good one. And yes, emb021, I know about the name thing from a few years ago. I'll throw out a guess, because I have no clue or data, but I'd guess more than half the councils in the country refer to their NYLT course by their own name. No idea about any consequences, but I hear very little about people getting beads for NYLT. Anybody?

(And just to eliminate the issue right off, one does need to serve on WB staff to get 4 beads)

BDPT00

Where it is most often seen is on the sleeve of local council professionals.

BDPT00

Well, pardon me.

It seems clear to me that her council is using another name and another patch, so I'm trying to clarify it for her.

And just for the fun of it, put an apostrophe in "it's."

BDPT00

Don't ya just hate that?! These are the example setters, and they don't care. Then it's time to replace them. If unit leaders want to mess with the rules, that's their problem, but district and council trainers need to know better.

BDPT00

Yes, there's one standard patch. Many councils use it, just as many other councils use their own. I'd have to assume that your council uses a locally chosen name for its NYLT course (something like "Brown Sea"), and there's no need for the generic patch. Is it restricted? No, but different Scout Shops handle patches in different ways. In some stores you can pick up an Eagle square knot off the shelf. In others, they'll be behind the counter, and in some you'll need proof to be able to buy one.

It's none of my business, but it doesn't sound to me as though you need it. These patches are normally distributed to those who've earned them from the course they took. It's not a unit advancement issue.

BDPT00

That's a common error. Some seem to think that because it's "national" that it goes above the pocket. The other common problem is when a staff member wears it up there, it becomes the new rule. It's a good reminder of how important it is for trainers to be in proper uniform. Yes, I'm well aware that some don't care, but I'll assume that most will do what they know to be proper.

BDPT00

Jeffrey H,

No, you won't find any unit org charts or suggestions at Wood Badge. Might prove to be an interesting ticket item or patrol project. Maybe not. Depends how it fits.

It's a great idea though for your unit to think 2 or 3 years ahead.

BDPT00

Interesting comments. Sounds like there are some pretty negative feelings about Wood Badge beading ceremonies. I get that. I've seen some good ones and plenty of pretty lousy ones.

One posted here sounds really bad. SSScout wrote something regarding "Is it time? and Time to go back." I wouldn't want to be there for that. In that same breif description, the secret cord flip was mentioned. What is that?

I don't think it's a great idea. But if it's going to be done, maybe do the beading at the reception, and have the new Eagle present the neckerchief, just like his dad had done earlier.

BDPT00

The impression I get in my council is that council level Venturing leaders and those whom they lead want nothing to do with Boy Scouts they want to be different, and they want everyone to know they're different. That particular group of people would resent being put in patrols with patrol leaders, an SPL, and a Scoutmaster. I don't think they mind terribly much being in patrols in Wood Badge, but mingle them with real Boy Scouts in a troop setting? No way. I think those who wrote the new syllabus sensed that, and did all they could to make it not feel like a troop. Oh really? If it looks, sounds, and smells like a pig, it's still a pig, even if you call it a swan. Nevertheless, now instead of calling it four legs and a curly tail, it's got feathers and a long neck. I just don't see the sense in it. Sorry.

I'm still curious about my prior question ... Can a 20 year old Venturer choose to take NYLT, even though Wood Badge is available to them? Does it make sense to do that? On the other hand, I've never been a fan of having an 18 year old take Wood Badge, but given the option, I think it would probably be better. Anything (logic maybe?) prevent a Venturer from taking both? Could be in either order. I hate to pick on the 18-20 year olds, but it seems to me that a different option would be better. If Kodiak is any good, why not gear it toward 16-20 year olds? Maybe it already is. I've not studied it. Anybody know? This goes back to what BadenP said: beef up the council's Kodiak program to make it worth taking for older Scouts/Venturers. Make it different and challenging. Make it a program that Venturers would be chomping at the bit to take (and older Boy Scouts too) instead of sending them to a course with a syllabus geared toward 13-14 year olds.

I'm just whining. I don't have answers ... just questions, and that's why I'm asking.

BDPT00

Agreeing with BadenP. I like the idea of beefing up or modifying Kodiak to make it what it needs to be for Venturing leadership training. I think primarily of the 13 year old Boy Scout taking NYLT. It seems really odd to me that the syllabus can be relevant to him at the same time it's relevant to a 20 year old Venturer.

Which raises another question. I think the 18-20 year old Venturers can choose between NYLT or Wood Badge. True? I don't see either program as a good fit for that demographic. Just my personal opinion. I'm sure it must be wonderful for somebody, and I don't care to argue about it. It just seems there should be a better way, and I think Kodiak could be it. In the meantime, it looks like now Kodiak is open to Boy Scouts. What for? I think that was done just to "make it fair." Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

BDPT00

I guess that's partly why I'm asking. Naming the "SPL" as the "Assistant Course Director for Program" or whatever made-up title it is sounds odd to me. Is the course still relevant to 13 year old Boy Scouts? No patrols; no PLCs; no Oath and Law, etc. I'm just wondering if it's been altered too much. I haven't seen it in action, so I'm asking.

BDPT00

Totally bogus

I hear both of you. What I'm wondering is now that some councils have run a course (last summer), how's it going this summer? Sighn-ups. Staffing. Opinions. Problems?

Our council hasn't done it yet, but we're about to, and I just wonder how it's been received. Many times, Scouters shun programs and changes made by national. Was this a good idea or a bad idea? Why?

BDPT00

Wondering how sign-ups are for NYLT this summer. Has adding Venturing added or subtracted from the previous format?

Do you run all courses the same, or do you have special courses for Venturers, Boy Scouts, or mixed groups?

BDPT00