pargolf44067

 

 

Was your council leader there in 2013? The week we were there two adults passed away. One from a heart attack, the other had a heart issue and, during his decent he tripped and hit is head on a rock. Both died at the scene. Was a tough week for Scouting.

I was there with a crew from my troop in 2013.  We were there mid-June.  Full disclosure, I am fairly overweight but have normal blood pressure.  I lost weight to go to Philmont, but when I got out there, due to the altitude, my blood pressure got higher.  I had to come off trail for a couple of days due to this (and spend most of one night at the ER in Raton), but they cleared me to go back out.  When I was coming back to base camp, they said that they had already had 3 or 4 leaders that had heart issues on the trail and had to go home.  I think the heat that year was especially bad.  I heard later in the summer that they lost a couple of leaders due to heart issues while out there.

To paraphrase Mel Brooks

"It's good to be the SM, CC, Senior Committee member, etc. son"

When all their requirements for advancement are signed off their SM conference and BOR happen immediatly, others, 1-2 months later.

Its always good to be related to the powers that be, and the youth know it.

If that is happening in your troop there is definitely something wrong.  When I was SM, I made sure that as soon as a rank had all the requirements met, I was available to the youth at least by the meeting following the one in which he finished.  His BOR was scheduled for the same meeting.  I refused to sign off on either of my boys' requirements and would not to MBs with them.  The only one that I would have done was the Golf MB because I was the only MBC in the troop, but they did a separate three meeting Golf MB session, so I didn't even do that one.  None of our leaders' sons were treated differently than other boys because that is not the scouting way to do things.  Now for me as SM again, it doesn't matter because I have no sons in the troop.  Unfortunately, I have seen things work the way you describe in other troops.

Reminds me on top of Mt. Baldy. (cue up the music)  Saw a storm approaching and everyone started down the hill quickly.  But our SM didn't have all the pictures he wanted yet.  Well, as ASM I announced, I was heading down NOW.  About half the boys decided to over ride the SM and go with me.  We made it to the tree line and I told the boys to dump the packs, spread out among the trees and get unto lighting posture.  They did.  About 10 minutes later the SM came waltzing down madder than a whole hive of disturbed bees.  He was in the process of giving me a tirade about not sticking together in bad weather when a lightning strike hit a dead tree about 20' behind him.  I'm surprised the group around him didn't get residual from it, but it hadn't rained enough to wet the ground.  I jumped up told the boys to pick up their gear and head down as fast as they can while the clouds were recharging.  I looked at the SM and quietly said, "I think we're done here." and booked it off down the trail.  This time the whole group went with me.  I never want to get that close ever again. 

@@Stosh, is this the same moron that didn't want to tell the boys about the bear procedures in another thread?  This guy sounds like a real winner of a SM.

Back to the original post, I have a NOAA weather radio as well weather apps.  I have taken the weather training from BSA, but some of the other ideas here sound pretty good.

We posted the PDFs to the troop website. The boys all have smart phones so they like that. Converted the meeting plan to an editable pdf file (a Scout's project) so the guys can make the plans easier.

 

Good luck, sounds like you are on the right track.

Great idea.  Definitely will look into that!

I'm going to disagree with with this assertion.  In my opinion, the most important thing in Scouting is the Scout.  And that is the reason I can appreciate those who have issues with councils and districts.  Those bodies are generally removed from direct interaction with the scouts and thus I would define as less important.  We keep hearing about recruitment and retention challenges but districts and councils can only impact things so much.  A great pack and dens can survive bad councils/districts, but great councils/districts can't overcome weak dens and packs.

 

Scouting is about the scouts and the most important level is that which interacts the most with them.  Other levels are needed to act as support, but are frankly nothing more than administration.  Granted it could be valuable administration, but often not necessary.

Not to speak for @@Eamonn, but I assumed he was talking about the program that is put on for the Scout.  Again, we have good volunteers in our district who put on some great programs, but I guess we could find the training online or another Klondike or Camporee to do and live without the district.  But it does seem that in our district there is more of an emphasis from the people that I deal with that they care about what the boys are getting out of the program.  Again, are they vitally important and could we survive without them?  I am sure we would be fine without them, but at least in my area they don't get in my way and are very helpful with what we do for the boys.

@, based on other posts your district sounds like it comes straight out of Dante's 7th Circle of Hell, so I can understand your cynicism.  Our district, while not ideal or perfect, provides us with a lot of great volunteers that provide advancement advice and really help our boys with their Eagle Projects and BORs.  They run a tremendous Klondike (we have people from other councils that are 2 and a half hours away that attend because it is so good).  They provide both leader and scout training as well as RTs, some of which are good and some, meh.

We have had really good DEs and we have had DEs that have lasted less than a month, so I don't base my opinion on the DE!  The volunteers in the district are great and a couple of them are still registered to my troop as well and are active at occasional meetings and as MB counselors.

On the other hand, I cannot tell you why you or other parents in the troop should volunteer at district, because I really want to work with the boys directly and help them have a great program.  I think that district positions take me away from that and so that's why I don't volunteer.

 

But there comes a time, well beyond the T-FC years that knowledge about these animals needs to go beyond basic identification.  Out at Philmont the SM of the troop I was with old all of us adults that whenever we see a bear it's to be identified as a black bear, not a grizzly so as to not scare the boys.  Yep, that's a good solution to the problem.  A grizzly comes through our camp and the SM tells all the boys not to worry it's just a black bear.  That year they were having big time problems with the bears.  The first night were were there in base camp a string of lights were coming down off the Tooth of Time in the middle of the night.  At breakfast I made the comment they must have had bear trouble up at the Tooth of Time camp.  SM tied into me and all but threatened to leave me behind.    About 20 minutes later the staff announced the fact that a contingent had been forced off the Tooth of Time when they couldn't run off the bear.  How are these boys going to be ready to face danger when adults lie to them?

 

As they get older they need to learn about their habits, their intelligence, and their attitudes towards humans, not just identify them.  On that same Philmont trek, we came across a patch of wild raspberries.  The boys began pulling them off the bushes as fast as they could.  I just asked if anyone was watching for the bears?  SM had a fit again.  I said, this is prime food for the bears and we're in their kitchen and they are well aware of these berries.  Pick a few, and eat them here.  If you eat too many or get the juice on their hands, the smell will follow us down the trail and so will the bears.  I didn't have to remind any of them the importance of moving out of the bear feeding area.

 

 

Glad I wasn't at Philmont with that guy.  I might have left HIM behind at base camp.  That is just not considering the safety of the scouts!  

Depending on the situation NSPs have both worked and not worked in our troop.  One year we got about 15 boys that crossed over at the same time.  We used two NSPs to work with them and had them elect Patrol Leaders, had TGs and Instructors work with them and those worked well.  Our mistake was splitting them up into multiple patrols after their first year.  A good portion of them have stayed (they are seniors this year) but several left.  I don't know that they left because of that but you never know.

On the other hand, the past few years we have gotten anywhere from 1-4 new scouts in the troop in a year and the NSP concept just didn't work at that level, so they boys found their way into a patrol (when we had patrols  ) and that seemed to work out as well.

There is no one solution to any issue. As @@Eagle94-A1 mentioned above, it is more an art than a science.  It seems that what @@Stosh does works well for him and what @@Eagledad has seen has worked well for his group.

@@Stosh, our unit does this...

 

- Themes are selected by the PLC during annual planning.

- Generally, the monthly themes map to the monthly outing.

- Games and skills are tied to the theme if possible.

- The PLC tries to have the meetings build in skill difficulty as the month progresses.

- The games/skills are "weighted" so as to challenged all skill levels. One skill, many difficulty levels. This is where scouts planners need the most guidance.

 

That's pretty much what we do. Does it always work? Nope, but they always learn something.

That's what our troop did when we actually planned out our year and our monthly meetings as well.  Some months worked great, some months not so great.  Some of the themes were the same every year (December/early January was typically getting ready for Klondike, while late January/early February was about cold weather camping in preparation for our Polar Bear).  If the boys decided at the Annual Planning Meeting that they wanted to do a canoe trip in June, then the month prior was some sort of canoeing/water safety theme.

As I move forward to start this again, I am going to encourage the boys to expand their thoughts about what can be done for a theme.  In the past, they kind of limited their activities to what they can do in the church and part of that may have been how us adults kind of hinted at things.  But, as always, you need to learn from your past mistakes, and I want them to think about what they can do outside of the meeting place (either literally outside or at other venues, such as the fire house as part of a first aid themed month to talk to EMTs, etc.).  As long as the boys are learning AND having fun that is what is important.

@@Stosh, if your group is going along fine and you don't have retention issues, then you are probably fine, but for some of us this works as well.

 

...

 

I am less against mixed age patrols as much as I'm very very much against assigning patrols and assigning the leaders.  Let the scouts choose.  It's their program.  

Totally agree!

And posters like @@hicountry is why I had stopped coming on this forum for awhile.  It is one thing to state an opinion on one side of an issue or another but to spew some of the venom that he did seems a little over the top.  So you don't agree with the lifestyle, that doesn't make them all pedophiles.

I'm out!

Usually I don't comment on the stuff in I&P because it can get pretty nasty and no matter what, people are going to believe in what they believe in and anything I say is not going to change it.

I personally don't agree with BSA's policy on homosexuals as it stands now, however, I also don't agree with all the people outside of scouts that vilify BSA and scouts in general because of it.  I have always accepted that it is a private group and if that is what they want to do it is their choice.  But just because I disagree with one aspect of the group, doesn't mean I have to reject it as a whole.  

Just like many others on this forum there is a lot of good in scouting that, to me, outweighs the things I disagree with.  I saw what Scouting did for my sons, and I have seen what it has done for other boys in my troop.  That, to me is what is important, not the politics and stuff that goes on at national.  I have seen leaders that care a lot about the boys in the troop.

For those of you who say that your convictions are so strong that you would quit if this local option came into place, I applaud you for your strong convictions, but I also think that you are doing a disservice to those boys that rely on us volunteers to give them an outdoor program that builds character.  It may not be perfect, but there is still value.

As I look back at the OP I see another issue other than schedule: Goal of PLC.

 

We try not to make the meeting too strenuous. We focus on planning the next month's meetings (usually 3 meetings). We make assignments for completing the meeting plans. We ask that the attendees come with ideas so that we avoid brainstorming during the meeting. The PLC knows to use the Troop Program Resources as a template; helps give them structure. The outdoor plan for the monthly camp out is also drawn up and then assigned to a group to plan.

 

In short, the PLC is a place where we the boys accumulate ideas, discuss high-level options, make assignments and then move on. Management of the meeting and outdoor plans falls to the SPL to work with the assigned PLs and ASPLs. The duty roster for meetings is made at the beginning of the year and rotates each month (e.g., honor patrol, service patrol, etc.).

 

The challenges? Making sure the boys come prepared to discuss ideas. Follow-up on meeting and outdoor plans. Helping the leaders plan and execute. Communication in a timely manner. When these things fail the meetings fail. Rather than step in we let the failure happen, then we discuss after the meeting to take our lumps and learn our lesson.

 

Nearly every election cycle we re-learn these things, BUT by the end we end up with guys who know how the system works. It gets better and the boys are learning...that's the key!

That's what my goal always was for the meeting was planning the next month's meetings.  We have used the Troop Program Resources as a guide and will use those again.  This time the SPL will have a copy of his own  !

I think it goes back to the point that @quazse made as well as yours and that is being efficient.  Maybe in the past we tried to do too much, but your point about high level assignments with follow up by SPL makes a ton of sense.  The good news is we have a lot of boys that want to learn and want to lead.

Last meeting of the month is PLC. SPL, ASPL, Scribe and PLs attend and plan the next month. The troop does scout skills and a game run by the Instructors and JASMs.

 

Used to have a similar format but was the week after a camp out. PLC met, the troop did gear cleaning or "scout room" clean up. For obvious reasons few scouts attended...who wants to clean? Changed five years ago to the above format. Works much better.

I assume you have multiple rooms to meet in as it could be very disruptive with all activities going on in the same place.

As you've seen, no schedule is perfect. We've tried all different kinds of things ... including a meeting at a coffee shop by the grocery store so the PL's can plan the next few months, then provision for the weekend's troop activity.

 

Try to guide boys in running meetings more efficiently. It's a very challenging skill, which I confess to doing poorly.

 

Get a sense of their priorities, and guide the SPL in ordeing the agenda accordingly.

 

We do try to have the boys bear the brunt of poor planning. This is very hard with adults on your committee chomping at the bit to fill in some gap.

I can picture some of the adults that would do exactly that.  I also think that it is unnatural for adults to let the boys bear this brunt.  It is in most people's nature to make sure things go right for the kids so they have a "good experience".  Instead we should make sure they have fun, but also have a "learning experience".

Appreciate the feedback from both of you.

When we get together with the new PLC in a couple of months for our Annual Planning Meeting for the boys to determine what they want to do for the upcoming scout year, I want to talk to them about having monthly PLC meetings.  They really haven't done them on a regular or semi-regular basis since I stepped down as SM.  In the past I have tried two different schedules.  The first that I did for the first few years I was SM, was meeting 30-45 minutes before one of the regular troop meetings.  The problem with this was that we never seemed to get through everything that we needed to and things were left unplanned.  The last couple of years we took one of our weekly meetings and turned it into the PLC/Advancement meeting.  So we had the PLC meeting and the other scouts could come in and have a SM conference or BOR or work on MBs, etc.  That was great for getting through our agenda and getting everything planned out.  The one downside, is it was one less troop meeting that we had in a month and that could sometimes, not always, impact what we would try and accomplish in a month.

I am going to leave it up to the boys, but I just wanted to know what some of you folks on the forum do.  I know some do it before a  meeting and some have a separate meeting either a set week of the month or the week after the campout.  Some of you with more experienced boy-led troops, especially, might be able to provide some thoughts on what works for you.  That way I can give the boys some pros and cons for each choice.

Thanks!

@@TAHAWK,

I misspoke when I said "we are going to let them operate".  What my intention was meant to indicate was that I don't believe in the Patrol Shuffle as was discussed earlier, so the patrols were going to be left as they were.  Trust me, I am in agreement on the Patrol Method, but it is going to take a little time to help the boys unlearn what they have been taught the last couple of years!

I had a dad -- an ASM as a matter of fact -- tell me he wanted his son to hurry up and earn Eagle by the 8th grade so he would be done with Scouting and go on "better" stuff in high school.  I told him to go ahead and fill out his son's Eagle application and I would sign it.  "Really?" the dad asked.  "Will that work?"

 

"Does it matter?" I replied and walked away.

I actually had a mom that was that way as well, a neighbor of mine, in fact.  Her son made Eagle just before the end of 8th grade.  Stayed in long enough to go on a High Adventure later that summer.  Re-registered the kid every year, so he could say that he was in scouts for such an amount of time and actually had the nerve at one point to ask if she could have a discount on her annual fee because he wasn't really active and didn't get the benefits that the fee covered.  We told her that if that was what she wanted then she should find another troop to re-charter with.

My biggest regret as a leader in scouts was this boy's Eagle rank.  I was intimidated by the overbearing mother at the time.  Never let that happen again!

Meh....so much for anybody living up to a promise made. I see nothing more than the same old crappola packaged in a different wrapper. The reference to DADT in the military is bull, and he knows it. Private organizations are not held to the same standard as government orgs like the military.

 

That giant sucking sound you hear is that half of scouting who disagrees with Gate getting ready to quit or leave. So glad my scout will be done in 12 months and I can leave this political crap behind.

 

He seems to be reacting to the few councils that have decided to buck national. He has YET to hear from those councils (and units) that will buck national if they *do* change the policy. Fun times. Glad I won't be around to watch the death of scouting.

@,

I have to say that I am sorry that you feel that way.  However, with as much crap as you have to deal with in your district and council, I shouldn't be surprised.  As much as I may disagree with some of BSA's policies I stepped back in because I have seen the effect that scouts has had on my sons and other boys in the troop.  I was going over an Eagle Project proposal with an almost 18 year old scout last week.  This boy was a huge trouble maker and had severe social issues when he first came into my troop and I never thought that he would be even close to Eagle.  We were discussing the MBs he had left and he was talking about what he did for his Communication MB.  He presented and led a discussion on the philosophy of Ayn Rand.  I was shocked.  I never would have guessed a few years ago that he would ever lead a discussion on a topic like that.  In addition, his mother has told me several times what a godsend Scouts was to her son.

So when I get frustrated with the crap going on at national (or council, district, etc) I just remember I am doing this for the boys and not for anything else.

As I mentioned in a post a couple of days ago, the boys were finally split into patrols.  I wasn't around for it, the former SM that I took over for was watching/leading the meeting.  Although he didn't do it the way I would have, at least we have patrols again.  The one thing that was interesting about it was when he asked the boys how they wanted to form patrols.  Every one of them said that they thought it should be mixed age patrols so older scouts are teaching younger scouts as part of it.  I have had it both ways same age and mixed age and there have been pros and cons to each.

Even though I didn't agree 100% with the method, the boys seemed happy at the end of the meeting, and we are going to let these patrols operate as such.  I have mentioned to the former SM that I think we need to go back to menu planning and eating by patrol (they had gone away from that after I left) and he agreed and said he told the boys that and they were excited about that opportunity.  We used to have a Leadership Patrol, but the other patrols really found the boys distracting and not helpful, so the boys themselves asked to disband the Leadership Patrol.  So, instead, once an SPL or ASPL has served his role, he will go back into the patrol that he came from.  Again these were decisions by the boys, and facilitated by the adults.

So, we may not be perfect, but the boys had a say in how the patrols were made up and how they will perform going forward.

Just came back from helping a band field trip.

 

I was shocked that they didn't limit chaperones.... almost every kid had a parent along.

 

When i signed up, I did so because my son wanted me to come along, but I thought I would be helping too.  When I found out that for the amusement park portion I would only be chaperoning my own son, and that there were only a very few chaperoned groups, I figured I wasn't needed.  Would have backed out except I had already paid, and DS wanted me to come along....

 

Everyone there of course helped in some ways, but just based on my casual observance most did a lot of pocket holding.

 

It was a good trip. Made some memories with DS, and I felt like I actually helped..... I was thinking while I was inside the belly of the bus loading or unloading, how scouting really conditions a person for not being shy about jumping in to help.

 

Maybe many of these folks just don't know how to pull their hands out of their pockets????

I did the same thing when my boys were in marching band.  I chaperoned to football games and band competitions and I really helped with loading and unloading of equipment, etc.  There were a lot of weekends that were spent with the band and/or scouts, as I was SM at the time too.  Most of the people involved with band were also involved in some other activity as well, including the Band Boosters president who was an ASM in my troop.  I agree with @@Stosh that a small group of people make up the majority of the volunteers across organizations.

Had a mom who could not help. No job, just busy. Needed an event planner. She said she's "suck at it if she tried". Planned a $60,000 wedding for her daughter. Left no stone unturned. Those who went said it was so well planned she should do it professionally.

 

Had a family that kept sending the kid to scouts out of uniform. Cited the high cost of uniform gear as the reason. Dropped her son off driving a Mercedes CL class ( the kind over 100k). Everyone in their family had an iPhone 6 Plus. Kid's clothes were all Abercrombie, Niemans, etc. House is in the "rich area"...5000 sq ft, over 700k.

 

As you said, we make room for the things that matter.

Agree that we make room for things that matter.

Thankfully, I haven't had issues to the point that you have had @, but it is sometimes hard to get people to volunteer.  Hopefully, my wonderful charm will do the trick and get more volunteers!

@@NJCubScouter, I tried to get back on topic

@@Rick_in_CA, I didn't use the words "lazy and don't care" specifically and I would never present that attitude to volunteers.  As I have said, my personal history when I was SM before in my troop was that I had a great group of parents that volunteered, but now it is a little different.  I know people are pulled in many directions, and I am one of them, but I also notice that those that are pulled in many directions are usually the ones that step up and volunteer, folks such as yourself who are trying to do multiple things to help.  If you were in my troop and weren't as involved but stayed somewhat involved, I wouldn't in any way complain about it, because you care enough to stay involved.

I do know that there are parents, and I think several posters on this forum can personally attest to this, that don't volunteer for anything.  It is just a general trend that I have seen in my district and in conversations (which obviously @@Stosh and @ agree with) that parents are volunteering less.

@@LeCastor, very interesting article!  Thanks for linking.

@@LeCastor, I guess I was lucky when I was SM in my troop before  .  I had very helpful and active volunteer parents, so this is why I am taking a bigger notice of this now I guess.  I always did the "small tasks" thing in the past and that has worked, hopefully it works again!