Pack212Scouter

Soar's myTroop has good email integration with Troopmaster, including email aliases for your leaders. The Calender isn't quite as seamless, but is functional and allows online event registration.

Alot of good input. Thanks. Now the challenge will be to begin working it in.

I would like some input from you all. How can a good PM be implemented in a large troop successfully? Our Troop runs about 100+ boys in 10+- patrols, and we get about 3 patrols of Webelos (25-30) bridging over each year. I'm not looking for answers such as "the Troop is too big," "split it," "cap it," etc. The realities are 1. the parents from out CO want their boys to be in a troop with the CO. 2. The CO is not interested in having another unit. What has been happening is the new boys come over as new Scout patrols. They generally want to stay with their buddies that they've been with in Cub Scouts for years. They get assigned a youth Patrol Guide who is usually at least Star. over time, these patrols dwindle down and wind up merged with other patrols. On outings, there are usually ad-hoc patrols because of the limits on how much cooking equipment you can transport (and the Troop own without increadible expendeture). Little of this is optimal, I know, but has anyone had success with reinstalling a good PM with a unit like this?

I found the Disney offer...It is for room and tickets (no travel, no food) $67 per person/per day for a family of four...for $268 per day at their economy resort with a stay of 5 nights...so $1340 minimum before travel and food expenses! As for the Troop costs, ours vary drastically from $30 for a weekend of camping to $75 for a weekend with rock climbing or canoeing. I don't see how you can afford to camp for $10 per youth...food for the weekend add up to more than that!(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

My daughter's Crew is going to NT Atikokan next summer and I've been trying to find the answers to some questions. They can go North into Crown Lands or south into northern Quetico. So which is more remote...more difficult...less used? Which are you more likely to run into others?

Sounds like you have things well in hand. It's a good sign that a) you willing and able to learn; b) you are level headed; and c) you have the Council onboard with you. Your next step is to make sure that your COR is aware of how things should be run so that they can back you if/when needed. Good luck on all this!

Hmmm....alot of things going on here. First a few background questions. Has there not been a CC or an active CC for a while? In other words is the CM used to having to run everything? Does your Pack conduct business with all parents or with a Committee? A lot of small Packs tend to leave all decisions up to the parents who attend. The BSA system is for a Pack Committee to make decisions that support the Pack's program. The Committee is the decision making authority for the Pack (with the CO's blessing) and by strick BSA guidelines, the CM & ACM are not part of it. Many Packs do elect to give them a seated position on the Pack Committee though. As Committee Chair, you are the "President" of the Committee and resposible for leading them through their decisions. You didn't mention the reason that the CM gave for wanting a leader removed, so it is not possible to respond if that was an appropriate reason. Reguardless of this, what you descibed is not the correct way for doing so. Only your Charter Orginization (or the Charter Org Representative on their behalf), the local BSA Council or National BSA has the authority to remove a Scouting volunteer from their position. As for the CM and his wife. There are no hard and fast rules about who can hold which positions, although it is not generally a good idea to have to treasurer as the Spouse of someone responsible for "spending" Pack money. This is not always possible, but good to avoid. An individual CAN be a registered volunteer in multiple units, so it is allowed to have another Pack's CM hold a position in your Pack, they just are not permitted to be registered for multiple positions in the same unit (although functionally, this often happens off paper). Ok, all that said, you need to decide just how much of this battle that you want to pick. You may wish to get your Charter Organization Rep or your District Executive involved in this. If you have a Unit Commissioner, you might contact them to see if they will have a friendly sit down with you all and discuss proper procedures and duties for Pack Committees. In the end though, before you pull any triggers, first look at this situation you face and what you can do. If you have a showdown with the CM and ACM, you may need to be prepared to step into that position until you can find new ones.

We've run a competative raingutter for several years, and have learned a few things. First off, we don't get trophies, we buy the 1st-3rd medals and award them that night. Next, we run only same ranked boys against each other (most Tigers don't have the wind of a Webelos!). Next, we provide the straws (they are all the same this way. Get the wide gauge straws like McDonalds has, they let more "wind" through. Have definite rules.... I recommend requiring just the basic design. You get some cleaver catamaran and wave piercing designes that blow away the others if you don't. We have had pretty good success running a loose race based on double or triple elimination. (You could even do quadruple). Basically, we let them get in line and race against any same ranked buddy that they want to. After losing X number of races, they are out. You need to make sure that boys don't hang back and not race, letting others lose first though. Usually three races will get you down close to the winners. I hope you all have fun with this!

A little more background on that decision then. Basically, Troop retention was tanking both because of program and because of cost. The established Scoutmasters wanted to continue on, wheras the CC and committee said they needed to look at how they were advising the boys, because there was an issue somewhere. On the Scout account side, there were many parents that wanted their sons to be able to fundraise to pay for the Scout events. Troop policy had been for summer camp only. The Scoutmasters wanted to continue on a cash colection basis with no accounting of funds (not implying that there was anything going on here, just bad accounting policy) and the parents had to pay cash out of pocket for the other approx $400-$500 of events over the year. At the request of many families, the CC and committee implemented usage of Scout accounts for all events.

Our Pack also has specific policies to this to keep costs down. Only four belt loops/pins can be awarded in a single month (It was felt that this was both reasonable, and a stretch for youth to do sometimes) The first month after summer, up to eight may be turned in. If they earned more than this, they can turn in the excess the next month. Luckily we already had this policy in place when we had a parent decide to "get her money" out of the Pack. She owed for summer camp with the Troop, and after approaching her three times about this, she finally paid. The next week (one week before bridgeover) she turned in for 26 belt loops and 13 pins.

Thanks for the responses. It's a sensative issue and I'm not sure if it's a can of worms that we really need to open with the IH at this time. Basically, there is a group of Scoutmasters that want to make sure they remain in control....they are not happy with the last CC forcing some changes upon he troop (such as being able to use Scout accounts instead of paying out of pocket, among other things), so have managed to get their own choice appointed for COR. Now they are trying to get one of their own into the CC position.

Trying to find a solid answer to this has been daunting. Assuming that you have an IH that wants to be involved. Is it proper for the COR to meet with someone who has volunteered to be CC and turn them down? I have always been under the impression that approval of the CC was the place of the IH, assuming they are active. What is the proper method of installing a new CC and does anyone have any BSA references other than the job description that says they are appointed by the CO?

Webelos rank and AOL are about the only achievements in BSA that can use the same time served for both. Nothing says that time served for Webelos rank does not apply to AOL.

Here is the appropriate section for you.... "8.Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping facility. 9.Single-room or dormitory-type accommodations for Scouting units: Adults and youth of the same gender may occupy dormitory or single-room accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four youth. A minimum of one of the adults is required to be youth-protection trained. Adults must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as a temporary blanket or sheet walls in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing area separated from the youth area." So in other words, the prefered setup would have been females in one room, male youth in another, and male adults in a third. Alternatively you could have places females in one room, male youth and adults could have utililized the same room, provided some privacy barriers were used.

In answer to the limit on time, most of our Webs bridge in Feb or March of their fifth grade year, so the limit is until they graduate fifth grade three months later.

I caution against Calico's final suggestion. You should never encourage the boys to defy their own parents. You may however encourage them to voice their opinions. I see another issue here also, not nearly as major, but still an issue. The email posted stated that all parents in the Troop are on the Committee. While some units try to follow this, I caution against it. To be a member of the Committee, you have to be approved by the COR/IH and registered to BSA. There are three very good reasons for this. First, it's BSA policy. Second, Committee Members often have access to private information sometimes on the CO, usually on the boys. Thirdly, and most importantly, Committee Members are supposed to be trained so that things like this don't happen! No it doesn't always prevent issues, but if your committee members have proper training, they are less likely to do things such as this.

Short of bad driving conditions, there should be little reason to cancel a winter outing for a prepared Troop. Plans may need to be modified, such as changing a long distance trek to a campout if very cold weather is expected, but generally the Troop should be prepared for anything like this.

We had a situation similar to this a couple of years ago. All of the Webelos were crossing over except for one that was fairly new and didn't have AOL. What we did so that he could stay with his friends and get used to the group before summer camp was send him as a visitor. How it worked was this...I talked with the Scoutmaster, and he was ok with the boy joining the Troop for meetings and outings as a visitor, as long as his dad attended with him. He remained registered to the Pack until he completed his AOL requirements.

My Cubmaster replacement actually just did this two weeks ago as a reward for breaking the popcorn sales record. We used small paper plates with large handfulls of canned whipped cream. Seems like we got about 8 per can. Unfortunately for him we had about 120 boys attend that meeting....we had to hose him off afterwards!

Bevah, that math is a little off. Yes they might be in an average of 4 years, but your not accounting for drops. Lets say you avarage an influx/outflux of 200,000 non-Eagling Scouts a year...so you have 200,000*3 years = 600,000 plus the 900,000 for the eagle year = 1,500,000 total Scouts during this period. 50,000 Eagles = about 3.3%. The most accurate way to figure it would probably be the total number of eagles related to the total that left scouting that year.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Exactly, the oath is "help other people at ALL TIMES," not "help other people, except when at Scouts." I'm all for giving the lad what he has earned, but if he is demonstrating unscoutlike behavior such as NOT helping others and refusing to volunteer to do these duties, should he just get a pass because he helped mom unpack her groceries?

No and yes. With our Pack being so large, it works out strategicly. We have a main ACM who will be replacing the Cubmaster. He is registered as ACM and that is his duty. We also have two helping ACMs. One is a Tiger leader who has been through Tigers before. They serve as ACM for Tigers and help those Dens out with knowledge. We also have an ACM for Webelos who is a Webelos leader and is someone who has been through Webs before. They do the same job for Webs and help with the completion and transition to Boy Scouts. So, functionally we have 3 ACMS, but on paper, only one; and only one who is expected to take over Cubmaster duties.

I have seen several boys in a few Troops simply "biding their time" for the six months until they meet that "active" requirement. Basically, showing up at the occasional meeting and not doing much. So here is my question of this...is it permissible, and even appropriate to say thay they are not earning their Eagle when their BOR comes up? I am basing the question on this. Requirement #2 states "Demonstrate that you live by the principles of the Scout Oath and Law in your daily life. List the names of individuals who know you personally and would be willing to provide a recommendation on your behalf, including parents/guardians, religious, educational, and employer references." So...here is my basis...How can they be living by the Scout Oath, specifically "help other people at all times." If they are refusing to teach younger Scouts in the Troop and help those Scouts advance?

Dances, close, but missed one thing.... They can join at 11 years old... They can join at 10 years old if they have AOL... They can join at 10 years old if they have completed fifth grade.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Anyone notice something conflicting on the form? The first part says the CR can only double register as CC or MC.....The second part says that the ScoutParent Unit coordinator may also register as CR.... "No one may register in more than one position in the same unit, except the chartered organization representative (who can multiple only as the committee chairman (CC) or a committee member (MC)) and the ScoutParent unit coordinator (who may multiple as chartered organization representative (CR), assistant den leader (DA), assistant Webelos den leader (WA), assistant Scoutmaster (SA), assistant Varsity Scout Coach (VA), mate (MT), and leader of the 11-year-old Scouts)."