Pack212Scouter

I too am not a big fan of the magnetic tags. The slightest bump or rub against something and they move out of place. I've also come really close to losing them when something caught it and popped it off the shirt. You often don't even notice when that happens.

We ordered some Leopard Patrol patches from them last April. They were pretty prompt and accurate, but we have not ordered anything recently.

Resident Camps depend alot on the coucil and unit, but also BSA recomendations and rules, as well as state rules. In our Council Cub Scout Resident Camp (Wolves & Bears) cubs have to have a parent/guardian attending and it is included in the price. Webelos Resident Camp a parent can go, or not go as long as the unit has at least 2 leaders going and maintains a 6-1 ratio. The Fees are for Scouts only (adults are extra) and the Council gives each unit a free leader for every 6 registered Webelos from the unit. Now in the case of our Pack (there are 5 Webelos Resident Camps) we "sponsor" one session where we have leaders. If someone chooses to go to another, a parent/guardian has to go with them.

Now back to the diffenece between Family Camping and Pack overnighter...

Family Camping is a camping activity where the Scouts family goes. This could be a Pack, Troop, or Venture Camping Trip where families attend. The Troop/Venture aspect kinda clarifies it here since traditionally most of their camping is Troop/Patrol/Crew camping and not Family Camping. Our Troop for istance does two Family Camping events each year and the rest are Troop/Patrol.

Pack Overnighters are Pack events that may or may not be family camping, although due to the nature of Cub Scouting and the emphasis on family, they are almost always set up as Family Camping. What this means is that Family Camping rules may not strictly apply to a Pack Overnighter, a Pack can choose to allow alternate arrangements so that a Cub may attend, so long as he is supervised. It's kinda of BSA GREY, but Family Camping is meant to define the requirements when families attend and event.

DYB, The confusion comes from the fact that one is partially part of the other. Family Camping is Camping (Pack, Troop, or otherwise) where families are camping together. The part that says parents are responsible for their children refers to both BSA and non-BSA children. Pack Overnighters however are organized Pack activities with events planned, etc. These are almost always Family Camping, however like some Resident Camps, Cubs may attend without a parent is someone is responsible for them. This resposibility should be 1-1, however you could allow an extra boy with someone (ie, BSA says that all Tigers need a parent/guardian with them, even requires a different one registered with each one on the charter, however this is not realistic in the case of twins/triplets).

In other words, Family Camping is a type of camping, not a type of Camping Event. Does this confuse or explain better?

Does anyone have a copy of the BSA insurance contract or policy? We have a unit that a fundraising location is requiring, but I cannot find it anywhere on the internet.

DYB, Family Camping is indeed different (somewhat) that Pack Overnighters. BSA defines them as follows:

Family camping: an outdoor camping experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection guidelines apply.

Pack Overnighters: These are pack-organized overnight events involving more than one family from a single pack, focused on age-appropriate Cub Scout activities and conducted at council-approved locations (councils use Pack Overnighter Site Approval Form, No. 13-508). If nonmembers (siblings) participate, the event must be structured accordingly to accommodate them. BSA health and safety and youth protection guidelines apply. In most cases, each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult.

What this means is that while Cub Scout camping is generally "family camping" Pack Overnighters can be treated slightly differently, just as Resident Camps are treated slightly differently.

John, I think that for Webelos it is technically until they complete 5th grate or turn 11.5, whichever is later. In practicallity though, I don't think that anyone would really care until the end of the program year unless the above happens before recharter (it will for one of ours this coming year).

Very cool. I love this idea

I may be wrong here, but I think that technically Dens can be numbered however the Cubmaster deems fit. They can be numbered as you say (although that can be confusing) I know Packs that maintain Den numbers with rank (ie, Tiger Dens are always 1, 2, 3 Wolves are 4, 5, 6, etc) Or like ours, they keep their Den number until they select a "Patrol" Den name as Webelos.

Is the uniform required, BSA seems to be somewhat ambiguous about it as they are about many things. I believe that it is very important. Are units within their rights to require a uniform? I believe that it is established that they are. There is a big however....if a unit is going to require a uniform, they should also be prepared to provide one as necessary or they will become exclusive.

Also, the forms that I was looking at the other day had a completion date of December 31, 2010. So they have until the end of the calendar year to complete the ribbon requirements.

Yep...State Parks (although they can get pretty expensive)...National Parks (a little more reasonable). There also may be some local Wildlife Sanctuaries that are suitable and have the needed facilities.

Also, don't forget about your council reservations. A few years back we began having out Spring Camp-out at one of the Council Camps because at 170 boys, not too many places could accommodate our numbers.

I read in here about overtaxing a Den Chief...I think two meeting nights would overtax more! What we have done, and it seems to work well, is our Webelos meet from 6:30-8:00. The Den Chiefs are with the patrols from 6:30-7:00. At 7:00 they go to their Troop Meeting. This way the Webelos Den gets them for 30 minutes, they get to go to their Troop Meeting, and they only have to spend one night on Scouts that week!

While our DE runs the "school presentation," we have done our own round-ups for years. And don't worry about scaring parents off. Let them know straight up that it is a parent run organization and relies on parents to be effective. Your DE is not being fair to your unit, to the parents, or to the Scouts by trying to "hide" that they need to be involved.

As for the roundup. Ours usually goes like this...

- Opening

- Some general "fun" information about Cub Scouts

- We then break the prospective Cub Scouts out to another room with some leaders for a cub scout game or activity and the Parents are given the meat and potatoes presentation during that.

- Cubs are brought back in for an overview of what the Pack will be doing over the next few months.

- Parents are broken out into rank groups to have smaller groups for questions, and to fill out registrations. Each group has a leader to answer questions and to draft new leaders.

Advance them and let them begin work at the end of the school year. You may need to wait until after June 1 to enter completions into ScoutNet is all.

Uniforms - Let the boys decide. Both uniforms are allowable and can be worn if they so choose. This does not however prevent them from having a plan for uniforms if the boys and parents wish. (Our Pack in fact hasn't seen a blue uniformed Webelos in years)

Advancement - Once again, let the boys decide. Many of our Webelos this past year wanted Super Achiever (all 20 badges) and they did it. A three hour Den meeting once a month will not "Kick the boys out." That is if you plan it right. It can't be three hours of desk work or it will accomplish it. If you break it up with fun activities, etc. then you can be successful with it. I wouldn't do this more than once a month though, and keep in mind that it would need to be on a weekend, which might make it harder for some boys. When you make you plan, try to be as inclusive as possible so boys do not feel left out.

Den Chiefs - As stated, the Boy Scout needs to be sold on this. Additionally, while they only need 6 months of service, if they wish to get their Den Chief award, then they have to serve for a full year.

As has been said, take the Webelos leader training. I think that you have a good plan to start, but you might decide that you want to tweak it a little.

With us, we have rows of chairs in back for the parents.

Cubs sit on the floor in front in groups by rank. Den Leaders usually stand by their ranks to help out.

artjrk, that is actually not entirely correct. Travel time and travel methods do not matter and are not part of the event unless made so. A Pack event starts at a specific time and location. If you are carpooling or riding as a unit, that would be wherever you meet up to get in vehicles, and BSA vehicle guidelines apply. If you are having an event at a specific location and time, then nothing that happens outside of that location/time is subject to BSA rules or requirements. For instance, me driving my son to a BSA campout does NOT make that drive subject to BSA liability coverage if I get in an accident. The only possible exception that I can think of to this is if a Den Leader decided to take a bunch of kids in his car. This could possible bring BSA vehicle rules into affect, however that STILL does not alther the event schedule. In this case, I would have a talk with that Den Leader since we did not set up or prepare for this by getting proper information from him.

LOL....love the disclaimer.

To summarize in my simple language....Extra permission forms serve to create more paperwork and kill trees....however most units choose to use them as methods of commitment, reminders, and since laws vary from state to state, as a cover your rear document

It is pretty much up to whoever is in charge of the trip. In our Pack, in most cases as long as someone takes responsibility for the Webelosand it is ok with the group leader, then they can go. The only exception to this is our Summer Webelos Adventure trip, because of the length of the trip (7 days), and some of the things that are done, we require a one to one ratio. This is both for safety and supervision. It is also because it is one of the last chances before Boy Scouts for them to have a parent/son adventure together.

I know that it is common practice for a unit to require a permission slip for each trip, but I have a question for any real Scouting lawyers out there. Since the annual medical form has a blanket permission slip to participate in Scouting activities, why are additional ones for each trip necessary?

Our Pack treats AOL completely separate. We even separated it from B&G because the time we could devote to honor these boys was too limited. We now do an AOL ceremony sometime in March, followed by the Troop doing a Bridgeover for them immediately following at the next Troop Meeting.

There is nothing against having meetings in the summer, just most units don't do so. In the summer, quite often you run into situations of many Scouts not being able to attend because of family vacations, camps, etc. Personally I would be cautious on what you work on at a Den level, you don't want to leave these other boys completely behind. The new Cub Scouts 2010 program won't be summer oriented either, although you will be totally free to add as you feel a need. Our Pack tries to plan at least one activity each month in the summer. I would use the summer months to push the "fun" of Scouting. Plan activities, hikes, etc. rather than meetings.

Items used/earned in one rank or optional rank level award may NOT be counted in the next rank. This also applies to Scouting year since you may only work on your appropriate rank. The only exception to this is that since the Webelos program spans 12-24 months, items worked on in their first Webelos year can apply to something in their second webelos year IF it was not used for another requirement.

Oh..one more note. We have the Scouts do most of the ceremony, but adult leaders place it into the fire.