Pack212Scouter

The situation is that our CO is a mega church and as such wants to avoid any hint at impropriety with youth, since they are a target. As for changing CO's that's not really a good option for us....first, our units are too large to move to most other places, second we like our CO, and third a co-ed crew isn't so much our goal as being able to have the boys and girls both be able to do it. Our Girls are AHG and are looking for a little more adventure. Our boys are pretty much high adventure already anyway, but this would give them an opportunity to do more traditional Boy Scout things while using Ventures for the high-adventure side.

We've always counted if they attend an event every month of the summer. There is also a Cub Scout Outdoor Activity award that is sewn on the pocket flap and go partially with these.

We are looking at starting up a Venturing unit, but are running into an issue. Our CO will not allow a co-ed crew. Has anyone run into this and a solution? Do you need to start two units? Is this even allowed? Or maybe it can be worked where there is one unit with two Crews one female and one male? Any insight would be helpful.

LOL...I already have boys who would need to wear their belt like a bandolier to accomodate all their belt loops.

Ghermanno,

Cub Scout resident camping has been around for years. As for saying that resident camping tires them out on it, I beg to differ. If they like it, then they don't get tired of it. If they don't, they aren't enjoying it to begin with.

I quote from the BSA website...

"Resident Camps

Cub Scout and Webelos Scout resident camping is a council-organized, theme-oriented overnight camping program. It operates for at least two nights and is conducted under certified leadership at a camp approved by the council.

Each year, councils change their overall theme to offer different adventures. Examples of themes include Sea Adventure, Space Adventure, Athletes, Knights, Circus Big Top, American Indian Heritage, Folklore, and the World Around Us.

Check with your council and district leaders for resident camp opportunities available in your area."

In our council, Cub Scout/Webelos Resident Camps are held at one Camp and Boy Scout Summer Camps are held at another one. Kind of a necessity since both camps end up getting used for at least 5 weeks straight.

Hmm...I don't remember any sports where uniforms are optional...they give a group mentality AND make them easier to identify.

I'm kinda curious why you don't have a Troop Chaplain? Both our Pack and Troop usually hold their own service in the woods prior to heading out when they are out on a Sunday. Lay people have been conducting services since the time of Christ and before, when regular worship was not available.

Our Council (Lincoln Heritage) offers three day/two nights for Wolves and Bears, and four days/three nights for Webelos. The two programs are also different. The Cub must have a parent and is a younger based program. One they are a Webelos, they can go without a parent (just must have two leaders for every eight cubs) and get to do some things closer to Boy Scouting.

Some are cool...Family Travel, Hiking, Horseback Riding, Pet Care, Photography...

Some...Good Manners, shouldn't they be learning this already? Reading and writing, shouldn't they have learned this in school?

And some...Video Games? I don't even know what to say about this....I just shudder an shake my head.

We are a very large Pack of around 170 boys. Our unit uses the TRAX spreadsheets on the Den level because they are very easy for a Den Leader to use and see where their boys are. Monthly, the Den submits their Trax file to our Advancement Chair who enters the information into PackMaster.

In our council, each District does it's own day camp. Resident camps are conducted by the Council for the whole council. There are usually five sessions of four day/three night Webelos Resident Camps and two sessions of three day/two night Cub resident camps for Wolves/Bears. In our Council, this marks the 18th year of resident camps.

While siblings are permitted at Day Camps, the Resident Camps only permit eligible Scouts and their parents (because of limited room). Cubs must have a parent/guardian with them, while Webelos can attend theirs alone with leaders from the unit as long as there are two leaders for every 8 boys.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Ok...been off at Webelos Resident Camp, but now that I am back I am posting what I meant to a while back. The Webelos Handbook states precisely what "Active" means for Webelos and it is not what is shown at scouting.org for Boy Scouts. I am kinda curious now if the Boy Scout handbook mentions it anywhere. I am quoting from the Webelos handbook (page 49 requirement #2 if you want to look it up).

"Be an active member of your Webelos den for three months. (Active means having good attendance, paying your den dues, and working on den projects.)"

So, by the printed definition of "active" you have to have good attendance and work on den projects. What is good attendance, I will leave that up to personal definition since that is not published, but to me 50% is not asking too much and you certainly aren't working on Den projects if you are not there. As for those who what to use the "Do your best" motto, I submit this. If you have a severe illness and can only attend some meetings, then that is doing your best. If you are missing Scouts so that you can participate in three sports, that isn't doing your best, that is setting priorities.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

"According to BSA you can NOT add an attendance requirement (must attend X% of meetings and Y% of outings in order to receive AOL)"

If we're going to state rules, I'm just curious where you found this BSA rule? I have never found it in national policies/publications, but maybe I missed it. Just because a council decided this, doesn't make it policy. We all know how common it is for councils to come up with policies with no evidence.

I set up paypal for our unit several years ago. It greatly helped with getting things paid on time. It was pretty straightforward, just remember if you set it up as a "charity" on their applications, they will require 501© paperwork. It is not necessary to set it up as such.

Additionally, your treasurer will need to transfer the funds to your unit account regularly, as it is not automatic.

As for fees. For most units, they will run 2.9% plus $.30 per transaction. We simply built the fees into the paypal price.

"The two packs have probably 1/3 to 1/2 of the Cubs in our district in them. We have families driving 1/2 hour past other packs to belong to that group. Popcorn sales in the neighborhood of $35,000 each."

This sounds alot like my Pack. We have roughly 170 boys in the Pack, with popcorn sales of $35,000 this last year. We however choose to support our District and not break the rules. We looked into having BB/Achery at our campout a couple of years ago, and in the end decided not to even though we had approval of the Council & would be following the rules (ie, council camp ranges, council trained range officers and open to other Packs). In the end, we just didn't feel that it was the right thing to do. As for supporting the district, we support the fall Cub-O-Ree, the March Scout-O-Rama, summer resident camps, and participate in both popcorn and camp-card fundraisers. I'll bet that our Pack is at least as vital and probably MORE active than those two put together. These Packs are simply not being good Scouters, they are not supporting the program if they are soloing it and quite frankly the parents and boys are missing out on the bigger world of Scouting by doing this.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

"I am not too familiar with how packs handle this,especialloy since uit's family camping and the parents are suppose to be there"

That's not strictly true. Full pack camping is called a "Pack Overnighter" in BSAease and does require a parent/guardian for the youth. In Webelos Den camping, a youth may or may not be attending with a parent/guardian. In Webelos Resident Camp, it is quite common for a youth to attend without a parent/guardian.

In addition, according to GSS, BSA requires medical information on Scouts/Scouters participating in activities. This means at minimum a Class 1 or the new section A & C. To me this is easiest to do by having each unit (Pack, Troop, or Venture) maintain a medical file. GSS states...

"the Boy Scouts of America established minimum standards for providing medical information prior to participating in various activities. They are classified as follows:

Class 1:

Includes any event that does not exceed 72 consecutive hours, where the level of activity is similar to that normally expended at home or at school, and where medical care is readily available. Examples: day camp, day hike, swimming party, or an overnight camp. Medical information required is a current health history signed by parents or guardian. The Class I Personal Health and Medical History found on form No. 34414A (Personal Health and Medical Record) meets this requirement. Den leaders, Scoutmasters, team coaches, and crew Advisors should review these and become knowledgeable about the medical needs of the youth members in their unit. Forms must be updated annually. They are filled out by participants and kept on file for easy reference."(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

1) HIPPA only applies to medical services and professionals. It does not apply to Scouting Units.

2) The original should be kept on file with the unit until it is replaced with a more current medical form. Copies should be used for any trips/camps and should be shredded afterwards.

Denners can be selected by several methods. You can rotate through the boys alphabetically or by som other method. If you decide to use the voting method, I would make a few suggestions.

- Use secret ballot

- No one can vote for themselves

- You cannot vote for someone who has already been a denner until all have had a chance.

Don't worry about it John-In-KC. It is unfortunate that newcomers to the forum must be subjected to the likes of this, but I suggest to anyone coming across this thread to do as I have done, skip over anything posted by Kudu. If you've read one of his posts, you've pretty much read them all.

Now back on the subject of this post, hiking chants do have their place. On long boring stretches of road and such. On the flip side though, maybe your patrol needs either to be shown the wonders of nature, or maybe the focus needs to be shifted from the destination to the trip. If your going to Philmont, your patrol will miss out on a lot of wonder if they focus on the destination and not the trip there. Sit down with them and try to find out why they don't like the hikes. Maybe they are longer than their physical stamina? Maybe they need some breaks in them? Maybe the pace is too fast? Too slow? Maybe they are going to areas that are so well traveled that they don't get to see much of nature, but more of a park? Maybe they are going out too often? Too little? Diagnose the issues and then work to ix them before it self-destructs.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Our unit has three of the Katadyn Vario filters. They aren't too heavy and an filter two liters a minute our of fairly clear water, although I recommend using the 1 liter/minute setting to prolong your filter life. Thus far we've really liked them. We also have three of the SteriPEN Adventurer UV lights. I've used them with water right out of a river many times with no problems. I like the fact that in a hurry you can have .5 liters of drinkable water in 45 seconds (1 liter in 90 seconds) with no chemical taste and no waiting half an hour. We chose the model that uses the CR123 camera batteries. They batteries cost a more than AA's but they are slightly lighter, last a lot longer than the AA version and your never tempted to "borrow" the batteries for another item.

My post was uncharacteristically rude, and I apologize to the forum.

As for your response Kudu, it says more about you than I ever could. I will not be reduced to trading insults with such as you. You no longer warrant any responses civil or otherwise. Good day and good Scouting.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

I've never used the training Trax, but the other Trax forms are very good. As for our Pack, we use PackMaster to track all training.

Of course Kudu...I agree wholeheartedly. Let's not help this young lad out by teaching him the value of an outdoor experience or how he might talk to his patrol to help get them interested. Instead let's fling insults at him and go into a diatribe about how Scouting is being destroyed. That's the REAL Scout spirit and leadership that your showing this youth. Way to go! I know that Baden Powell and Green Bar Bill would be proud!(This message has been edited by Pack212Scouter)

Our Pack meets every week. For Tigers, Wolves and Bears, this amounts to 3 one hour meetings a typical month with a 90 minute Pack Meeting once a month. Our Webelos meet for 90 minutes 3 times a month. The meetings are replaced with go see its or workshops (PWD, etc) as needed.