Pack212Scouter

I don't see anything wrong with the adults doing a little, and I mean little of this. It give the boys more of an idea of presentation that way. Just remember that the boys should be the focus. I was considering doing this one, but was concerned that it might go right over the heads of Cub Scouts. Let me know how it works out for ya

Your trainer is incorrect. The Cub Scouting program allows for program placement bases on rank or age. Talk to the parents. Unless there is a preference to repeat the program year, it is recommended that he stay with his Den. If you are a school chartered Pack, then the Parent may prefer him to remain Scouting with classmates, however if only one or two from a class are in the unit, then this is a very minimal reason to repeat a program level.

As for advancing to Boy Scouts, boys who are 11 OR 10 and have EITHER completed fifth grade or earned their Arrow of Light. If he is on course to completing AOL at 10, then he will have no issue advancing to Boy Scouts regardless of his grade.

In our area Scout-O-Rama is supposed to be such an expo, but it doesn't seem to get well publicized as such. The Council also charges admission. As a result hardly anyone from the public comes in and it has mostly become another campout with events.

Yes, a unit should be using their CO's EIN as well as their CO's non-profit status. I think that you will find this is a problem more common than you think. I certainly have discovered this.

Gags & Beavah,

In a perfect Scouting world, where everything makes sense, then yeah those answers are the right ones. Unfortunately not all, and in fact not all that many Units get to operate in that perfect world with their CO.

Let's look at this situation. We have an enthusiastic DL that wants to do things. That's awesome in my opinion, and I am sure that my response sounded a little harsher than I meant. This, as in all things requires a measured and escalating response. The CC and possibly COR are the correct people to handle it though.

Now in addition to that, things go through the CC and COR to the CO for a reason. In this situation we may or may not now have a PTA committee that is unhappy with the unit for what they see as an "end run" for the EIN. This in a situation (schools) which are already becoming a tenuous relationship for BSA. Is the perception mistaken? I am sure, however that does not help the situation that has developed.

Our unit created an honorary patrol, the "Old Goat Patrol" for past Cubmasters. They are invited to big events like Spring Campout and get to come for free, the Pack usually gets some labor from them for this .

Well, you've got a number of issues here. First of all, getting a tax ID number from a CO, even a church, is becoming more and more difficult. This is because of numerous reasons, including ID theft, lack of controls over what the unit may spend on, possible tax liability of the CO. All that you can do is continue to ask and try to explain the need for it.

You can apply for your own EIN, but this can get messy. If you have more than $5000 go through your unit in a year, it does not automatically meet non-profit status. You then would either fall under you CO's non-profit status (a whole new can of worms), would have to file tax forms and pay taxes, or have to self-incorporate. All of the above is a major headache, the last being frowned upon because of the complexity of it, and the fact that you are then your own CO, which BSA generally frowns upon. Some units form a "Friends of Unit XXX" non-profit organization that handles all the unit's finances. Once again, this can get complicated.

As for this DL, the CC and COR needs to have a sit down with them and a) find out why they are holding money that belongs to the CO, b) have that money turned over, and c) explain that any communication with the CO needs to go through the CC and COR.

When my son was a Wolf, I also bought him a pair of the blue switchback 2's. He loved them, and so did I. The only issue that we had was that the cool little rubber Cub Scout pulls on the leg zippers came off the second or third time through the wash, but they were still usable. He wore them very heavily all the way through our Spring Camp this year. We have been very happy with them, they stood up to wear very well, but more than two years of growth is all you can expect at best at this age. Our Pack only requires blue school uniform pants, but personally while I think the Scout pants are a bit overpriced, but still worth it.

I sewed my son's on all four (five...) sides. It is probably not as easy to use as using just three sides, but I found that the pocket could still be buttoned & unbuttoned under it.

Hal & Lisa, it definitely can be like a business at times, but we have a fair number of dedicated individuals. So yes, we have a great committee, but sleep deprivation does factor in from time to time As for the Troop we feed, it runs about 90-100 boys.

Lisa, you have good points. I think that $15 is not unreasonable for what we get, although occasionally I would like to get a little less for my money (frequent rule changes, etc.). Compared to the American Heritage Girls that my daughter is in, the dues are really small! They are $195 annually for the Troop Charter plus $26 annually per member registration. Of course they don't have the leverage of numbers that BSA and GSA have working for them.

We run our finances via dues and Scout accounts replenished from fundraisers. The Scout accounts can be used to pay for any Scouting activities that are paid for through the Pack. Out of the dues, we cover membership fees for the boys and leaders, leader training, all awards, meeting supplies, technology expenses (website, voicemail, etc), insurance, and a few other things. Our popcorn fundraiser last year was $36,000 and our camp card fundraiser was around $10,000. So out of those two, the boys got around $14,000 into their Scout accounts, and about the same went to council.

My guess is that we are one of the largest Packs in the country, or at least in the top 5% for sure. The drawback is that the "hour per week" is per boy!

I don't mind the $5 registration fee increase, but I wish that they had told us sooner so that we could budget for it...especially since they have yet to actually announce it.(This message has been edited by Pack212Scouter)

Buffalo Skipper,

My midnight math was a little off, but we do have a considerable number of leaders to present a program. Our Pack is running around 165-175 boys (that's an additional $825-$875). Last year we had 55 leaders ($275). This year we are looking at about 22-23 Dens. That is 46 Den Leaders, plus a few dens with a third leader, so lets say 50 Den leaders. Plus about 8 Pack Committee positions (Chair, treasurer, activities, awards, etc.) You may think 8 is a lot, but not in a Pack of this size. What are minor positions in most packs become major ones in large packs. Now add in Cubmaster and two Asst Cubmasters. We are up to almost 65, so now we are up to $325. Add in the boys and we are looking at an additional $1100 in a year when we were already cutting dues to the bone, to make less of an impact because of the economy.

And as for functioning effectively, we are this size and growing because we present one of the best programs in the area effectively.

(This message has been edited by Pack212Scouter)(This message has been edited by Pack212Scouter)

It's not that I mind a raise in registration fees, however alot of units, such as mine, have already established dues for next year so that we can have an early-bird registration. Now we find out that our budget will be at least $800 in the red.

Oh wait...I forgot leaders...I mean we are now almost $1200 in the red.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Fast Tracks is a good program for advancement, but the feedback that I got from my Den Leaders this year was that it was a poor program. They did not like the way that it focused on advancement and in a lot of cases threw the fun to the wind.

My guess is that they are refering to the ScoutParents program. Each unit is now required to have a "ScoutParents Coordinator". The idea is for the coordinator to provide parents with information and encourage them to be an active "ScoutParent".

In your situation though, this sounds like someone taking it to the extreme. They should not be spamming unit parents.

For more information on this program you can visit www.scoutparents.org(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Our Pack has the policy of finances not keeping a boy from Scouting, however we have some policies for it.

-- They must be participants in fundraisers, unless there is a good reason (i.e. mom in hospital or some such).

-- They must participate in the activity paid for.

-- They must volunteer in some way. Not necessarily as a leader (we don't want leaders that don't want to be there), but at least help at events, concessions, etc.

Has anyone else heard this?

Ok...I'm not trying to be as argumenative as I sound, but for the sake of accuracy...

Safety Afloat does not require a physical exam (and "class 1" will not exist after the end of this year). All that it requires is "evidence of fitness by a complete health history from a physician, parent, or legal guardian", which is the old Class 1.

It also does not require a swim test, all that it requires for non-swimmers in an adult swimmer with them (in the case of a motorboat) or someone qualified as a lifeguard or lifesaver (in the case of a sailboat). Cubs are not permitted on most other craft outside of Council events.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

For Cubs, that restriction is for Canoeing, kayaking, rowing, and rafting. I do not believe that it applies to sailing and motor boats.

That's a great list. One thing though. Model Rockets are not an approved Cub Scout activity per G2SS. They can look at how they are put together and they can watch them launched from a safe distance, but Cub Scouts cannot participate in model rocketry. What they can do which they have great fun with is bottle rockets. These are made from two liters about a quarter full of water and then pumped up with a bicycle pump.

My first thought would be that sailplanes would fall under the same category as light aircraft (Cesna, etc.). But I would let the council make this call.

The plastic tables hold up pretty well and are easy to clean. I've used one for years with a propane stove with no negative results. That said, I have a friend that made a homemade cardboard/tinfoil charcoal oven. He set it directly on the table and it did melt a small hole in it.

That is up to the Pack and the parent. A Tiger can be either in 1st grade or seven years old. In the Cub Scouting program either age or grade can be used, it just sometimes gets confusing when you use both. In the case of this boy, if he is just turning six, unless he is in first grade, he will have to wait a year. for most boys, their school grade will typically place them ahead of the age requirements. This usually results in about 18 months as a Webelos rather than the aproxamately one year in an age based program. LDS runs an age based program, however most other Packs run a grade based one.

Yep...wouldn't it be a boring world if we knew and had seen everything!

Kenk,

That is also an excellent method that many Troops use. Just remember that you don't want to make the mistake that I have seen some Troops make (It doesn't sound like yours is). "Boy led" does not mean "boy run." I've seem some troops where the adults are just about completely hands-off with troop planning. They don't seem to remember that mentorship is the the purpose of boy led method, not letting them run amok. I've seen troops that expect a SPL with only a little leadership experience, and no management experience to be able to jump in and do the same job that people with many years of experience sometimes find difficult. Then they replace him in six months when he is just getting the hang of it. The purpose of adult leaders is to mentor and assist where needed, not run their own camping trip and let the boys flounder continually, although occasional floundering can be it's own learning experience too

Sorry, just one of my pet peeves.