Pack212Scouter

Seeing as it is part of the ANNUAL physical form which BSA requires for all Scouts and leaders, I have seen it as naming who is authorised to take to and pick up the Scout in general. In other words, these people may pick up and drop off for scouting meetings and events. What happens after the pickup and dropoff is the Units perogotive at that point.

That is because GSUSA is also Federally chartered.

I'm hoping that they probably do like our CO. Our CO requires a seperate background check form. Not too worried about the legal side with them as they probably process as many annually as the local Council

What your describing is camping. It doesn't matter if it is a single evening into morning or a week in the woods. They are still staying in a tent, cooking outside, etc. BSA is pretty plain on this. Tigers, Wolves and Bears can only camp on a Pack level. If you want to skirt this, it's up to you and your council, but what are you teaching the boys by breaking rules. That said, there is nothing that you, the CO, or the council can do if they wish to go camping as families somewhere. It just isn't a Cub Scout event.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

"I believe that the exposer that a boy gets in the Sports and Academic program to different activities is more valuable to a boy than a field trip to the zoo, or pumpkin patch, or farm, or pack sponsored family campout."

I have to disagree with you on this one. Many of the belt loops, especially the sports ones are normal exposure for many boys now days. The Camping and family experiences sadly are not.

Our Pack has run the belt loop & pin program for as long as I can remember. The kids love it. The costs are built into dues as part of awards. We do have two restrictions on it.

First, a belt loop/pin will only be awarded once. If they earn it twice, cool, but they already have it (most of our Scouts run out of waste lonf before they stop earning new belt loops anyway!). Also this encourages them to work on a new one.

Second, we have a limit to six belt loops/pins per month. First of all, in most cases, that is all that a Cub can reasonably do and do it in the spirit of the award. Second, we want to make sure that they are working on advancement and not just Belt Loops. Third, and this is a big one, it keeps the parents honest. We have had a couple that decided that they were going to try to "get the value" out of our program and turned in EVERY belt loop and pin the last month of the program when they had only been in Scouting one year.

I've seen it done a few ways.

a) allowing the Scouts to come up with one that each likes, b) presenting them with a list of options.

a) allowing them to pursuade others, b) going straight to a vote

a) show of hands, b) secret ballot.

What I have seen done successfully is similar to the Olympic venue vote. First they are given a list of names to pick from. This should be long but not too extensive. Once each Scout has selected their favorite, you write them on the board. You then conduct a secret vote and come up with the top three. Cross out all the others and revote on those three. Then cross out the lowest and revote on the top two for the winner. The reason for this method is that often the favorite out of the first one or two votes will not win when the "losers" switch their votes to their "next favorite" name.

I can empithize with you. With our Pack of 170+ Scouts burnout is an ever present danger. Large or small, a good active pack can be a lot of work for one person. It sounds like you've done a great job, but don't keep carrying the load alone. There should be a Pack Committee helping with every roundup/registration event. These 40 parents should be stepping up and helping. Even if it is only setup and teardown at an event, this takes an enormous load off of you. Be sure to space your major events out. Unless there is an unusual reason, there should never be more that one major event in a month. It is too much for your parents, too much for your volunteers and too much for you. If you have a PWD one month...put off the campout or the service project or whatever to the next month. Your doing a great job, but remember, it doesn't help anyone if you burn out! There are alot of really good ideas here. Judge your success on most of the boys staying in Scouting and having fun, not new numbers!

KISMIF_Works, you said your Pack won't earn the award? All that it has to do is hold an event every month. Attendence doesn't matter, that is for Den Summertime Award.

This is the first time that I've heard this terminology. Nationals and our local Council don't use it. I can't say that I like the use of it eaither. They are a Webelos Scout before and after they earn AOL until they bridge over. AOL is a goal, and achievement, but not a rank and it is highly inappropriate.

We don't usually ask for financial details from people. Usually an expressed need is enough. We do require a few things if they are scholarshiped. First, they have to participate in a fundraiser. This doesn't mean that they have to raise enough to pay for everything, only that they make a good faith effort. Second, they have to volunteer in some way for the Pack we don't want forced leaders, but as simple as helping with a concession stand at an event or helping set up for an event. Third, if we pay for an event for them, especially a Council event, then they have to show up or have a very good reason for not being there for it to be paid again. As long as they are meeting these things, we will help out whenever needed.

Now sometimes exceptions to this are made. There MAY be a good reason for not making all of these requirements (one year for example we had a single mom who's parent was in the hospital with cancer for a very long time and all during the popcorn fundraiser). However they need to sit down with us and tell us why the requirements were not done if they want financial aid again, not just express a need again.

Additionally, sometimes fundraising only needs to be explained. Last year for example we had a single mom working two jobs. All it took was sitting with her and her son and explaining that we didn't want "her" to sell popcorn, we wanted "him" to help earn his own way. We then teamed him up with another Scout selling close to his home and he sold over $400 in popcorn. Not only did he help himself, but he was extremly proud that he had helped his mom out paying for Scouts.

Ultimately the goal should be to extend the benefits of Scouting to every boy that you can without negatively affecting the program for the other boys.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Not every Scout is a good Den Chief. Also sometimes it is harder to get them from smaller Troops, as there are plenty of leadership positions to go around. Sometimes you get better results from the larger troops where the boys are looking for leadership opportunities.

Sounds like the current leadership of the Pack took over a few years ago and decided that they didn't want to bother with the "extra stuff", but just get their boys through. Kind of sad, as it is self serving. If this is the case, these people should have never stepped up to the positions, however it may have been the case at the time that no one else would. It also sounds like your DE may not be doing his job either if he is not responding. Our DE attends/speaks at ALL the school nights/boy rallys unless the unit specifically does not want him to do it because they do it themselves. I would say at this point, a meeting needs to be held with the CORs and they almost need to be treated as start-up units if the COR wants to keep them. It may even be necessary for you or the DE to organize the boy rally. The key to it would be that you still don't have a unit unless some of these new parents are committed (and hopefully experienced) to running the unit properly. At least with new unit start-ups you have a few people that are committed to running the Pack properly, that will be hit or miss out of recruiting. It sounds like a really tough situation.

Sounds like the Dens are getting really full...almost too full. We have found that your target for Den size should be Tiger, 6-8, Wolf/Bear, 6-10 with going over 10 being only with good leaders and Scouts, Webelos, 8-10. I have seen very few Dens over 10 that are well functional.

Our Council is in the phase of really encouraging Packs to let people "try out" Cub Scouting. In other words, only charge them BSA dues for the first couple of months. I'm not necessarily a big fan of this, but with the encouraged "try and drop" approach, I now count percentage from the January recharter for Den Leader Award (we used to count the entire year) As for summertime activity, it would be a percentage of how many went into summer as part of the Pack with the intent of returning.

Our Pack saves the actual rank awarding for the graduation baquet. HOWEVER, as soon as they complete the requirements, they have received all of their beads and can begin working on electives for arrow points. We don't stop the immediate recognition.

In our Pack you wear the uniform to all activities (Den Meetings, Pack Meetings, and activities). Exceptions are made for "class B" t-shirts at camps and "dirty" or "wet" outdoor activities which we announce.

I think that our Pack uses everything except texting, facebook, and carrier pigeons.

We use OneCallNow for urgent announcements and reminders. In addition, we have a calendar, monthly newsletter (in print and e-version), website, email, e-blasts, and pack meeting announcements (for activities).

I've come to the realization that with some parents (and even some leaders) you could staple it to their forehead and they would say that you didn't tell anyone!

Our troop currently limits age on some merit badges, ie. for Citizenship you must be at least 14. Do any other troops do this? And is this considered adding to a requirement?

We usually run about 60% event attendance durring out Scouting year and over the summer events usually draw about 40%-50%.

BTW...We went to Patriots Point last year. You get a heck of a deal for $60. Their program is outstanding. It includes 2 nights on the ship, 4 meals, an excursion program, and the Medal of Honor Museum is outstanding. Not to mention that there is an impressive collection of aircraft, a submarine that you can go through, and the Vietnam Firebase.

Our Pack is one of the larger Packs. We had 172 boys last year. I anticipate around 180 after roundup this year. There are many advantages and disadvantages for Packs of this size. Large Packs can leverage the numbers, making quality events cheaper per Scout. Large Packs can usually afford better event locations because of the numbers. Large Packs also often have more infrastructure and equipment. Large Packs have a wide variety of volunteer skills to draw upon. Large Packs may also have more ability to scholarship a youth's costs. There are definitely disadvantges also though. Anything done can become a large chore with a Pack this size. Additionally, events that involve awards run longer. It can sometimes be a challenge to find locations large enough for events. Additionally, while the Cubmaster knows every boy, you really don't get a change to interact with every one of them at every event.

Some people say a Pack this size should be split. We looked into that at one time and found alot of issues in doing it. One of them is that we estimated a need for 40% more volunteers if the Pack became two, most of them in the more difficult to fill positions. Also, at this point we refuse to cap growth, although it has been discussed. We are very open about the advantages and DISADVANTAGES of joining our Pack. Most come because of the quality of our program and we will not turn a youth away from Scouting.

Are you sure about that Beavah? I thought that a unit, co, or leader could not add to or take away from advancment requirements?

I am so sorry for your loss, it is something that noone should have to go through.

As has been said here earlier, it is not allowed by the uniform policy for the Green Venturing uniform. From a strictly uniforming perspective it is because people can choose to honor anyone with anything in that case, so it is easier to draw the line at nothing. That said, I understand your desire to honor them. Wearing them will bring some comments about them from time to time, and sometimes rude ones. The question is, is it something that you want to get into if someone does challenge it, or something that you want to even hear? Another thing to consider is what is your goal in wearing them. Do you want to wear them to show others, or just to have them near you. If the later is the case, maybe wearing them under the pocket flap near your heart might be a good solution.

Once again, you have our sympathies and our prayers.

Mike, you have a good point. It's funny how quickly you get used to "yelling" at other peoples kids. What amazes me is how many parents will be present, sit back and check out, ignoring their child running wild.

Our members will be spending the day with their families, the next weekend we'll be going to one of the local rock wall facilities and climbing for the day, probably followed up with Dairy Queen.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Sounds like a reasonable approach. Just make sure that you have your CO's backing to prevent any further issues. Also, keep in mind the personal approach for higher positions. Quite often you'll get a "someone else in the group will do it" thinking in these meetings. A one-on-one over coffee with one or two people who you think have the ability and burried desire will often yield great results.