Pack212Scouter

I can't tell you how many DEs, Council representatives, and Council volunteers make statements that are not based on facts. (For instance I had that Council staff tell me two summers ago that a flag can't be retired unless it is flow that day). Anyway, the long and short of it is this....

A Tiger, Wolf, or Bear Den can't decide to go off camping on their own. Other than Webelos, all other Cub Scout camping must be done as a Pack Overnighter with a BALOO trained leader and under the supervision of the Pack. I suppose if you "really" wanted to, the Pack could make an overnighter restricted to one rank, but I don't know why you would do so. Doing so is exclusive to the other members of your Pack since it is technically a Pack event. There are only three types of camping allowed for Cub Scouts. Resident Camps, Pack Overnighters, and Webelos Den Camping. The fourth that people often use to try to get around this is the category of non-official family recreational camping on Scout property.

From a practical standpoint, I have used them before in the wilderness. Some work great, many don't as well. My favorite was one that layed down the back of the backpack and charged AA batteries. These could then be used to recharge a cell phone (emergencies), replace batteries in 2-way weather radios, SteriPens, GPS units, etc. In practical use, small portable units like this can only be used to charge one item, two MAYBE if you have a long sunny day.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Guide to safe Scouting can't be any clearer on this....

"■Overnight camping by Tiger, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America."

The section on "family camping" etc. is by way of explanation of the types of camping, NOT an out on who can camp.

It seems that it is mostly a result of how the chartering church views the program. IF they view it as a BSA program on their grounds, they tend not to care. If they view it as a ministry outreach, they tend to have faith based requirements. Our CO for instance does not require church membership except for the CC, CM, SM. This year, they have started required signed statements of faith from leaders. The change? It is that this year they decided to start viewing it as a ministry.

On a side note, I noticed some errors in the article. Easily made by non-scouters, but subtly changes the meaning of some things. For one thing, I noticed it calls the volunteer leaders at the church "Scouting officials."

Our Pack also provides the colors as part of awards.

Unless it is so severe that he can't be around them, most units that I know of simply plan an alternate meal for the Scout. Now even given that, if the boys know, they may choose to plan peanut free meals around him. Something to consider is that peanuts contaminate nearly EAVERTHING that you would commonly use, so be sure to check labels carefully if he is not providing his own food.

Let me give my opinions from experience and I'll let you do with them what you will

A few years back, I was going into my second year as Den Leader for my son (wolf). I knew that our current cubmaster was aging out in another year and felt that was the direction that I wanted to go.

Now first thing that I did was sit down and have a talk with my son. He thought it was really cool that his dad was going to be Cubmaster instead and I had his support. Next thing is I made sure that I had two really good leaders in his den.

Second, I'm not going to BS you. Cubmaster will be more work than DL. Here is the catch though. I have gotten more back out of it than I ever put into it. Nothing beats going into church or a resturant and having one of those Cubs run up and tell you all about something!

Third, consider program AS IT RELATES TO YOUR SON! I don't get to spend as much time with my son at some events as some other dads do. But he is getting two things out of this. First, he is getting a program and getting to hang with his friends at great events that he may not have otherwise. Second, he gets to see HIS dad stepping up and volunteering...leading by example...and he learns from this.

Fourth, I am not naturally comfortable in front of crowds. Being Cubmaster of a Pack of now 206 boys has definitely been a challenge for me. But it has been good for me. It reminds me of Mike Rowe's speech at the National Jamboree. "Scouting makes you do what you are uncomfortable doing....and it makes you like it!"

I'm not saying that this is necessarily something that you should do, but these are some things to consider.

That is a lot for a single Den of Tigers. In fact, in my opinion that is too many and I won't allow it in "our" Pack. That said, it is the Cubmaster and Committee Chair's job, not yours, to get additional leaders in the Dens. They need to come straight out with these parents and explain that.

a) The parents have to be there anyway and it is an easy program to lead. That they will have support.

b) The group will have to be split into two Dens, and three more Leaders are needed (in our Pack, REQUIRED)

c) If no one steps up, there will unfortunately and sadly not be a program for their Cubs. Leaders and Pack volunteers will get priority in staying.

In using this approach we have never had a lack of leaders, although it may take 2-3 weeks to get them.

Unless there is a particular reason to keep a Cub whose parent won't help (most single moms are glad to do SOMETHING, by the way). Then realistically those families will either be drops or deadweight on the Pack very soon. It sounds harsh, but your program will eventually fail if this is allowed to continue, as it places too much load on too few people.

All of that said, if you know some of these parents, you may be in the best position to talk one of them into helping.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

We have successfully done two things. The parent should discuss this with the new Scout and decide after talking to the Cubmaster...or by talking to the Cubmaster.

1) They are placed into a Webelos 1 Den since both are working towards Webelos. Our Webelos 2 bridge in late March. If they have turned 11 by then then they don't need AOL. If they won't then they can work on the few extra things for AOL in that 6 months (Oct-Mar). We usually put them into a Webelos 2 Den around the end of January so they can get to know the boys (most of ours go to the same troop as a group).

2) They are placed into a Webelos 2 Den with the idea that the group is working on AOL and they will have to make up the Webelos rank requirements on their own.

Once we were lucky enough to get 7 new Webelos 2 Scouts. They formed their own Den and plugged out AOL before brigeover.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

BSA has replaced the Cub Scout themes with Character Connections as of the 2010 program year. That isn't to say that you can't use them, just there will be no more publishings with the old ones.

ScoutNut has it right. Your book reflects the old program before Tiger was fully integrated into the Cub Scout program. Tiger is still a "psuedo" Cub Scout program, like Webelos; however it is now fully part of the program, so normal Cub Scout standards apply (such as eaning Bobcat before anything else).

This could actually be a good thing if done properly. Think about it. If they developed part of the area, it could bring much needed income to keep Patriots Point operational.

I'm sorry for the loss to the family and the Pack.

One of the things that our committee has discussed and is important to a large Unit especially is having what I have heard refered to as a "bus plan". In other words, what would happen if all of your top unit leadership was killed in a bus crash. We are currently developing written documents that if something happened one or all of us, people unfamiliar with the inner workings of our unit would be able to pick up these documents and finish out the Pack year.

Depends what you see as overpriced. For instance it is a fundraiser...70% goes to local scouting. So out of a $10 box only $3 is actual cost back to the company. That is actually less than a box of popcorn at WalMart. I used to think that a $5 box would be nice but have changed my mind recently. We have had no issues selling the product. In fact, out unit ran out of Show and Sell and we wish we had more. Just like Girl Scout cookies, it's more of a donation. Most people will give a $10 donation. I don't know why your council has $12 items. First of all, $10 is an easier sell in most people's minds. Secondly, it makes accounting and change more difficult. All of the items in our council are in $5 increments.

Many of you are forgetting the other side of Scouting. YOUR COUNCIL needs the popcorn fundraiser. Friends of Scouting contributions are down...United Way contributions to Scouting are down. Part of the fundraising (roughly half of the 70% that goes to local scouting) goes to support council. Unless you plan on raising dues to match, your council needs your unit to sell so that they can maintain the Scout camps, provide you with rank badges, scholarship some BSA dues, pay their limited staff, provide materials for roundups, and a myriad of other things. The popcorn fundraiser is NOT just for your unit!(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

We have found that Scout accounts cover alot of this. They can use 25% of their gross popcorn sales to pay for dues and activities. The Pack uses the other 4% for overhead costs. We have set dues which can be covered from their sales. For boys that cannot afford dues, etc. We have a Scholarship fund, but part of it is that they are required to participate in fundraisers. If a boy drops out of Scouting, his leftover account funds go into the scholarship fund to replenish it.

Now, it requires a little extra work, but our popcorn sales have never been higher. Most boys fundraise most if not all of their own program costs after the initial scholarship.

If you want to go with a dues and scholarship method there are several things to consider....

- You may have a fairly well off parent in the Pack that would be willing to start it off with a $200-$1000 donation.

- You might be able to get one of the local malls to donate their fountain coins for it. (they usually clean them out 3-4 times a year and give it to charities). In this case, you will have to clean and roll them (we had a cleaning & rolling party for it)

- Most Councils will Scholarship BSA registration fees with a financial assistance form. Additionally, some Councils may scholarship uniform shirts.

- Scholarships are higher than ever right now. We have scholarshiped about 10% of the roster this year, and its probably closer to 15% of active Scouts(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Our Troop's trailer is not currently registered.

While on site, it is covered by the CO's insurance.

While being towed, in most cases it is covered by the tower's insurance (although this is not always the case. Check.)

In Kentucky, a non-commercial use trailer does not have to be registered unless taken out of state.

You can't send them to me...I have too many! We've pretty much run out of room! Broke the 200 mark today.

That was my thought too...it's only 50's. At least she didn't make someone drive up and disturb their adventure.

Our unit has run "Scout accounts" for many years. Basically it we run ours as a charge account. 25% of gross popcorn sales goes into their account and 50% of camp card sales (all of our portion of camp cards). They can then use this account to pay for anything that can be paid for through the pack, pack campouts, derby kits, council camps, B&G, etc. It has worked out really well. The boys that help the Pack Go get something out of it in appreciation. They also get the joy of "paying for themselves". Finally, it has alowed us to accurately predict event attendance because campouts are paid for, even if it is Scout account. We also found that if people "pay" for something, they are much more likely to make the effort to attend than if it is just a "free" event.

If they are a multi-child family, it is administered as one shared account. If a boy bridges to Boy Scouts and leaves a brother in the Pack, he can take his "percentage" with him. Also if a boy goes to a Troop or another Pack, he can take it there as long as he is staying in Scouting. If they drop, the money goes to the scholarship fund.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

I'd say that our average drops has been about 15%. This year is about twice that because of moves caused by the economy.

My Woodbadge experience was like the others, not yours. The only thing like a stave that we had was the Service Patrol and the Program Patrol lantern and beads. Only donation request was the World Scouting Fund at service. Not much in the way of staff recognition...after two weekends, the staff should be pretty well known to everyone already! Mine was an excellent course, more leadership training than Scout training, but that is what alot of leaders need anyway. Not everyone gets the corporate training unless they are in management at a fairly sizable corporation. I'd like to see a little more "Scouting" specific training, but then thats what Boy Scout Leader training should be for.

How are you all keeping your awards so low? I'm looking at this and seeing $22,$25 for awards PLUS other items. Our Pack averages nearly $40 per boy for awards ONLY. And that is with a policy of capping belt loops/pins.

We charge annual dues of $85 covers pretty much everything except costs for events such as camping, rock wall, etc. Concessions pay for derby costs. And we use Scout accounts to allow boys to earn their way.

Our Scholarship fund was hit heavier this yer than ever. We scholarshipped nearly 10% of out total Scouts this year. The cost for that will be even higher for the Pack this year since the Council stopped scholarshipping uniforms and well have to fund those ourselves.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Sounds like a boom year for many Packs. I wonder if this is the result of the Centennial, of the economy, or of something else?

Had anyone else had an outstanding recruiting year? This year we lost a lot of boys primarily due to moves by the economy, but we've far exceeded that with signed up Scouts, most of them new to Scouting. This year has been as big or bigger than the one three years ago with the Milleneum babies. Not just for Tigers, but we've brought in a significant number of all ages. (Even 3 Webelos 2's).