ozemu

Hey dozer - Im here too! You know - oz emu... australian bird...oh dear. There was another here somewhere. Tasmanian bloke. Thanks dan I was away. Welcome Phil, is essex near wessex? met a scout fellowship bloke who is a city councillor in wessex (i think) at our jamboree early this year. Is the jamboree you mention a national event? We got 12 000 to ours and that was a bit down. Got 16 000 two jams ago. Do your changes include a uniform that resembles a fast food outlets attire? We are doing that soon. Very depressing. If you have gone that way how has it worked?

headlamps in the tunnel simulated accident to practice first aid (careful where you do that - dont want to cause a real accident by sudden braking) go fishing along the way each patrol to locate itself to a 6 or 8 figure grid reference at least three times. They should use a few minutes before starting to examine the map and find obvious places with lots of features to use when plotting the grid ref. scavenger hunt ideas - find sign of another group using the track, collect nuts / fruit / flowers / seeds, identify the origin of rock types, find erosion / high human impact areas, find sign of native animals, find sign of the rail use history, find a way to get behind the patrol behind you without being seen (hide along the route) identify the atmosperic conditions (cloud types etc), predict tomorrows weather,

Thanks everyone. Monthly seems most useful but I also have issues with the time required. Well not me but my beautiful wife has issues. All the others are married too and have similar spouses. Not beautiful mind you, two are husbands after all but the time thing is common. The training idea I had not considered. As we are more likely to meet quarterley (given the above) with a few ad hoc short meetings thrown in we might even look at training. Thanks Mike F. Eamonns liquid was a given already (mine is rum and coke). Incidentally a UK Scouter told me about a bumper sticker he saw at home. The liver is evil - it must be punished

Similar to KS but without the BSA rules. If you have already signed of on the individual requirments then you may be compelled to letting this one through. This may be unpleasent. On the upside Second class is commendable but not exactly worth you dying in its defence. We all make mistakes. You did in getting to this position. He did in paying lip service to the standards. You will pay for your mistake by denting your pride in unit (and some gnashing of teeth perhaps). He will pay for his by being very closely observed while earning the next rank. Please remember that he is 11. Most 11 year olds are a nuisance, struggle to live the oath and promise, are overly impressed by rank, recognise form over substance etc. Maybe he needs a chat? Has anyone told him that Scout spirit is a behaviour not a fact? That we must live the oath every day and not just once for the BOR?

Have you blokes seen the turtle scenes in Finding Nemo?

Oddly we dont have a term for the adult leaders meeting separately to iron out the details of for the PLC and our own needs in the program. Lets call it a leaders meeting. I am finding that our expansion and swelling adult numbers require more of my time in planning. I used to do it after each meeting but that cant happen now with young Scouts and Monday night meetings. Our leader meetings now need to be more formal, less often and yet timely. Question: How often do your adults meet either formally or informally. This is separate to the PLC. After the PLC I find that we need the adults to sort out how to make the PLCs program work. Its not that the PLC gets it wrong but they are short on detail and even when they do allocate specific actions it falls back to the adults (in our case) to work out who will do what when the Scouts have not got the skills. We also need to juggle our private lives around to meet the two up requirments etc. We also find it usefull to talk about the Scouts in their absence to figure out our approaches to their needs. There is also no SPL and we do that job as well I suppose. Alas Scouts Australia cast that opportunity away.

wish him good fortune for me pls

it is not fair. it reads like he was just getting his stride worked out.

can never have enough of these. thanks eisely

I have not read the detail of the previous posts because I dont always understand things across the pacific but you seem to be getting good local advice. My advice from a very stand back position is that if you like Scouting then do what you must do and if the pack folds just move on as many kids as you can into other packs etc and then do the same yourself. Your energy and enthusiasm are needed elsewhere. There is always a job going. The cubs will continue to have a great time somewhere else. I can think of two other jobs that are available and I would try my hand at. Different to being SM but a change is as good as a holiday and Scouting is MY hobby after all.

What would make the leadership positions in your troop more attractive to otherwise enthusiastic Scouts? Is there something missing from the way you handle the incumbents that is not attractive to the others. I am definately not saying that you are being a bad SM but rather that I have learned and put into practice many things that make the role of PL etc sought after and respected in our Troop. Having said that the newest additions in our Troop who have arrived as older Scouts (about 4 Scouts) are evenly split on wanting to have a leadership role and not. The more experienced older Scouts all seem to be looking forward to the opportunity. Is it that they forsee the old team being broken up and that they do not want that? Is there some way that you could cater for them? (Venture patrols etc). Could you get boy leaders within and outside the Troop to motivate them? acco40 I am probably off the mark and am just trying to suggest of ways to bring them round without putting the guilts on them. Maybe a kick in the nether region is what is needed.

Hiemlich on a bus. Not the best location; I suppose it was moving too so conditions are even worse. A teenager hugging a peer from behind even if they know it is what is needed. Acting with the doubts that Proud Eagle had at his party - is it needed or will the student cough up the obstruction? Plenty of room for doubt there. I'm not impressed that the Scout knew what to do but taking action under those conditions is commendable. Remember most teenagers are far more self conscious than we (self assured) adults. Well done in my book. Medals? Wouldn't get one here but in your country it seems medals are rated differently. Deserves congratulations and some formal public recognition regardless.

Come on Scouts. Looking at the top of the page there are lots of us waiting for some pointers. Where are the others?

Excellant question. I have concentrated at the micro level rather than discussing politics or campaigning. I must say I dont usually know who to trust anyway. What has been done is: not allowing abuse of our countrys leaders on the premise that anyone can poor scorn on public figures but not many can offer better solutions. If they can rationally be critical then they get a good hearing and a discussion. discussing bullying and the teenage tendancy to be negative or even cruel as a defence against cruelty and ridicule to themselves. Standing up for a cause is very hard while putting ideas and people down is easy. regularly including current events in our prayers. People we know, have read or heard about and people facing war, abuse, poverty and disaster anywhere in the world. I am proud of how often they do this unsolicited. regular reference to the Scout Laws in their actions and decision making. These laws are more easily understood than civil laws and political causes. Much easier for a young person to make value based decisions using the Scout Laws than to refer to discuss the history and ideology behind current political issues. Scouts learn by doing. At the Troop level they can do responsible citizenship. This also could be an easy way to hide my own ignorance and ambivilance to politics and politicians (This message has been edited by ozemu)

Welcome OTTEROBC. Your post does not reveal much about the numbers that you have in mind nor the nature of the disabilities or even what adult and funding support that you have or expect. In the absence of the detail I offer my recollections of Scouting with disabled people. I add that I have never had a connection with a disabled Troop or event. I knew well three boys with 5% vision or so, a totally blind SM (also leader trainer), an intellectually disabled leader and his son, Have also met two other intellectually disabled Scouts and another with cerebral paulsy in my District. There would be more Im sure but we have no disabled units of any kind. The first I knew of one PL was when he undertook a reading at a Scout spiritual service. It was hard to understand him but heck we listened - probably got more attention and respect than any other presenter there. In short. They enjoyed a mainstream Scouting experience. However I can readily imagine physical and adult support reasons why a mainstream experience may not be useful. I can also see a reason to cater for emotionally and behaviourally disabled Scouts. But that can disrupt a Troop enormously. The cost there is at the expense of the other Scouts. In the work I do I can see that a Troop of disruptive Scouts could be effective in changing them positivally but there are not enough adults with the skills needed. I have one right now who is the subject of another thread and in a mainstream Troop that is hard enough. If after this rambling post (sorry) you still see the need for a Troop of Disabled Scouts then pls provide some more details. Good Luck

Hmmm. Thinking back on the comments (all of which I value). Advancement is not an issue just as leadership is not on the agenda. Why is he here? He wants to join in. And while he is here we will rub some character into him.

Fair enough. A few differences that you may not understand. There are no appointed Troop leadership positions over here. None. I have invented them twice before but in this case I agree. This young man will not be in a leadership position. Also there is no Venture Patrol Adrianvs. Rather we run a few activities that are more adventurous for older Scouts and he can help the adults arrange them. He would have no responsibility for other Scouts. He in fact would have no Patrol and needs a recognised role (which is NOT senior to any PL). Where does he stand on parade and who does he tent and eat with? There is no such thing as an SM conference. I talk to Scouts as needed but there is no recognised formal interview. It is not my place to allow him to continue or not. He wants to be there and until the PLC say he goes then he stays. The PLC may require him to stand on the mat and face the music but it has not reached anything like that point yet. He has behaviour issues certainly. To his credit he tries and as long as he does that so will I. I doubt that he will ever live the law and promise as we expect others too but he does understand - just has difficulty applying that knowledge. He is quite intelligent. He has no problem with being out front of people. What he needs to value is being a vital wheel in the machine. Therefore the best I can come up with is Assistant PL of an ad hoc grouping. (APLs in my Troop are responsible for admin and logistics. It is not really a leadership position but is a responsibility) In effect he will help me prepare and conduct adventurous activities. Oh! and he is the newest and oldest member of the Troop with at least six months before moving up to Venturers at age 15 which he is keen to do. He is immature for age and I will hold him until max age for Scouts (15) so that he can understand the law and promise before moving on. Venturer Units have a structure without Patrols and he will be the right starting age there as well. It is just the next few months when he doesnt fit. So my questions remain: What can he do and what recognised role can he play? Has anyone found something that works?

This thread was spun from another thread.Three times I have had a Scout who I did not want to be in any Patrol of Scouts. I have tried three different methods of including them and am interested in others experiences. Firstly an overview of why they could not join a Patrol. I do this to paint a picture. We have a different system and I do not wish to go into a full thesis on our differences. I'm really out to compare solutions of employment. So the Scouts were: Much older than other Scouts when they first start (a 14 year old being led by 12 year olds did not seem likely on this one), Was a PL in another Troop and there were no vacancies in ours for a PL. Putting him back was not desirable in the long term, The Scout has serious behaviour issues and would so disrupt a Patrol and undermine a PL that he must stay out for their benefit, Okay- my solutions from worst to not yet tried but considering are: SPL QM Assistant PL for Venture Patrol activities. More Venture Parol coordinator - its the level he is working on) In all cases the Scouts are older or as the oldest, new to the Troop and there were other personality/behaviour issues that would be upset. None of those jobs actually exist in Scouts Australia. Has anybody had a successful experience with a worthwhile Troop position for Scouts who are not suited to life in the Patrols?

When we have an SPL equivilant they always camp with the adults as I see it as a part of their transition toward adulthood. To this end they get to spend time close up with the adults, get recognition of their maturation from the Scouts in Patrols and the previous comments about impartiality stand in my opinion.

BW - You've got to be kidding! It is very sad. Keep your armour on mate. Personally I find the ignore has much improved my presence here. A bit like burying your head in the sand or like wearing intergalactic gargo blasters but works for those as weak willed as myself. Thanks Terry

given up trying to vote for the moment. I get the register page (chore) and do that only to find I still cannot vote. this thread is being mirrored in Scouter Announcements forum

Sounds great but frankly I do not have enough leisure time for that. My method of keeping up is the Roundtable and visiting other Scouters at big camps. and this forum. I want to know how to be a better Scout Leader. That is how I have fun when not with my family and my job.

I have a poor memory for detail and must check all the time. What never fails though is that my gut feeling is always correct. Not to say that my gut feeling is always alert though (sleepy little blighter) but when it whispers I listen. It seems that KS pays attention to the same animal. It is a good backup to the official rules and should never be underestimated. That is what I teach my Scouts. If it doesn't look/feel/sound right then don't do it. These were Tenderfoot Scouts though and they are always wild cards. Well done KS.

I like it - thanks. Will think on the how.

Hi guys, jamboree had some real problems that detracted from things a bit so I did not boot the idea off formally. Got lots of interest from leaders though so I will pursue the plan from our home base in this new Scouting year. Specifically I have a number of older Scouts without leadership positions available so I will start with my Troop and will then invite other older Scouts along. Jamboree reunion will also show the drop out rate and will collect the keenest older Scouts. (we get lots drop out after Jam - only one of mine but it is normal in other Troops). I don't think we will use OA tyle elections. Rather there will be a minimum requirment and probably recommendation by the PLC. After that I am not sure. Depends on whether I can get interested Venturers to provide that leadership at Scout level rather than being adult driven. Part of my problem is that the oldest Scouts are 14 and after 15th birthday they must leave the Troop and head for Venturers. Chops the head off a bit. I will need to gather suppport from across sections of the District. I'm watching the other thread avidly.