Old_OX_Eagle83

Hmm, Ive not actively researched this question in the past few years, and only recall language forbidding additions to, or changes in, the official sash. We always interpreted hat as dont take any license, reproduce it as it is. Its quite possible I may have missed an update. Personally, Id still go ahead and get your sash. It may be against policy, and if so thats a pretty silly policy in my opinion. The choice is yours 

Thanks for letting me know about the change.

I never cared for the Gret Owl sash, they beads are oversized, as is the design. I dont care for the colors either, the beads are low grade Chinese, and look like it. As you can tell, I do bead work, lol. I beaded a sash years ago, when I was a youth doing ceremonies. I used check glass beads, transparent in deed colors for the Legend, and greasy white chalk French glass for the background. That sash is 26 years old now, I ever wore it much outside ceremonies and such, its quite heavy, and despite being made of nymo thread with liberal amount of bees wax, is fragile.

I suggest beading one yourself, if you can, it will mean more to you. Im beading a new one, as Ive grown in the wrong direction over the years, lazy stitching this one out of all old stock French glass 12 gauge, no legend this time, as it is frowned upon. This should be a beautiful piece. If you want to buy a sash Id look for a head beaded one for sale, the Grey Owl looks machined, and is. Besides, the legend is against policy, although a beaded sash generally is not.

You took an obligation, long ago, you are taking the first steps to honoring that obligation by playing a part in your Pack. Although your activity with the pack may prevent you from being as faithful in the attendance of the sessions of your lodge as you would like, the lodges work is not only done at OA events. You were told long ago Those who chose you need you, you are answering that call now, pay your dues, sew on your flap, and let it be known you are a brother rendering cheerful service.

Ive got back involved in scouting a few years ago, after a long break. The first OA function I attended left me speechless, and confused, I didnt recognize anything but the sashes. I was inducted in 1981, sealed my membership by completing my Brotherhood in 1982, and was given the Vigil Honor in 1985, all as a youth member. To say I was involved as a youth member would be an understatement. I served in various elected and appointed, positions in my lodge, and section, as well as serving on multiple NLS staffs, and NOAC staff. In the early 90s,a s an adult I had also served as a Chapter Advisor. What I saw in no way resembled the order I knew from my past. Why I looked like nothing short of a mommy and kiddies play town event. Dont get me wrong, Im not against women in the order, and put the idea forward, in one case, before it was official; thats not what Im driving at.

Ill use the recent Conclave I attended as an example. Not one time was our Higher Purpose, or obligation mentioned. There was no motivation to be good Arrowmen provided, no inspirational presentations, and an overall lack of youth leadership. There was no lack of fellowship, or fun. Movies were played Friday night, Guitar Hero tournaments were held, and sporting events held. Hey, I like to have fun, and like games, but isnt Scouting about games with a purpose? I missed the purpose, me and everyone else. Shows, no, there werent any real shows, and the one half-arsed one done had nothing to do with the OA. Training, yea, it happened, if briefly, and the ones I attended were fair. My point is, Conclave was not much more than a big party with people in cool sashes, ran by adults theres a whole lot wrong with this picture. Fun, oh yea, gotta have that, but fun with a purpose the event was without a purpose, the OA has lost sight of the arrow, and strayed.

First youth need to lead, just like in a troop.

Second, all Arrowmen need to visualize a path that leads them onward, and upward, the OA should put their feet on the path, and act as a guide.

Third, OA activities, events, and games need to have a fully realized higher purpose.

Fourth, the order is a thing of the spirit. We talk about service, but we forget the first two the ones that must come first, or it is a slave labor force.

Fifth, the OA, like Scouting, is a thing of the outdoors, and must be closely tied to the Council/District camping programs. Put the Order back in the camps, and youll find the camping in the Order again.

If you want an opinion of yet another old timer, here it is 

Horse feathers!

First of all dues paid members can participate in activities, regardless of chapter, or lodge activities. Of course your scouts can participate in OA activities at camp, as dues paid members of the lodge (although typically the dues paid part is not required for summer camp OA activities).

Second of all, participation in Chapter meetings can be restricted to officers and OA Reps. Easy answer, register one.

Third, contact your Chapter Advisor. If the Chapter Advisor sticks to his guns go to the Lodge Advisor and/or DE.

This is not policy, and noting National will endorse, and it would take National endorsement

Ive weighed in on this issue before, but here are some additional thoughts.

-It should be impressed upon the part how their attendance will make this ceremony less significant to not only their son, but all the scouts being honored. Polite discouragement is the direction to take, with a measure of shame for ruining the induction.

-Make sure the parent does not bring anyone one else, period

-Make the parent stay outside the circle, where the members should be seated. By doing this they become less of potential problem, and several levels, and get the clear message this is a members only event, you have here on sufferance.

-No flash photography, no light on during ceremony, no cell phone!

-No sound recording is allowed, no photos inside ring except by official lodge photographer, in regalia, if the lodge elects to use a photographer. If the lodge is photographing the event, make a selection of those photos available, and disallow additional photos (yea, you can do that when you provide photos the attendee saw you take at the event).

-You do not have to allow the parent to participate in after ceremony activities, or cracker barrels.

*This approach will discourage the parent attending

You say a DC was the parent this thread is about? Shame on him/her, they should have known why they should not attend. Someone made a poor choice when filling that position.

Photography is not banned, but Id be slow to reveal this misconception  I still have the Polaroid of me being presented my Vigil Honor. Heres the rub, got dont want disruptive activities are ceremonies. I have a vigil picture, why not a Brotherhood, or Ordeal? The answer is simple, it was dark, photography with a flash would have been disruptive. Although you cant ban photography at a ceremony, you can ban lights and flashes, and control where the photos are taken from. Between the lines is the ability to control this issue.

This isnt an OA issue, this is a troop issue. Correcting the unit issue will correct issues with future elections. Coming head on at the SM and CC is not going to help; you might try motivating the older scouts directly, if any part of the program has sunk it this may be easier than you think. Id start by getting them to help with tasks the will make their value to the program obvious, and install self worth. Lazy or no, these scouts need you, and this program, turn them into an asset. What I suggest is the road less traveled, but it will be worth the effort.

Mine is Ronald Reagan, and is a letter, not a card.

Absolutely Mr. Jimi! The best way to lead is by example, and you have trekked to trail to its summit. What better way to say I know how this is done?

Im no fan of half-uniforming, but do understand it perfectly legal. I know the arguments in favor of it, but find they are outweighed by the benefits of this scouting method. With the availability of district and council uniform closets in most areas, and the ability to create one in the unit, this hurdle can be overcame. Make friends in the local thrift stores, they most often will give your unit all uniforms that come their way.

I read a post above the mentioned the usefulness of the uniform, all I can say is bingo! Were talking about functional, rugged field wear, this is not a dress uniform put it to use

The green loops are for the centennial uniform, the Oscar DeLa renta uniform is to be worn with the red loops, for scouts, or scouters, who are functioning in role with a Boy Scout Troop. The loops represent the individuals registration for the position in question.

Blue are for Cub Scout

OD Green/Red for Boy Scouts

Blaze Orange for Varsity Scouts

Forest Green for Venture Scouts of Explorers (also Sea Scout is in BSA tan uniform)

Silver for District or Council

Gold for Area, Region, or National

I hope this helps

Yeppers, I trim all that excess off. However, Im not sure if I would if all my knots were new. Some of my knots are old enough that they never had the excess, so it was never a choice, the new ones didnt fit without trimming.

Thanks for setting me straight on your posts Eagle92, no offence was intended. In as far as West, and the history, I already was aware. As you can guess, Ive got a bit of pepper in my salt, lol. Eagle class of 83 here, always nice to meet another eagle! In as far as West, we differ in how we see him. The urban move, was one of the worst strategic moves on BSA history, my opinion. West, on the other hand, in my opinion, brought more bad then good to BSA, also my opinion.

The movement needed a professional to get it going, but Ive always felt West was the wrong guy, and perhaps the worst stratigic move BSA ever made, to bad Uncle Dan wouldnt/couldnt take the job. Ill not side track the thread by opening that can of worms further

Eagle 92, James Wests policy was superceeded by a new policy in 1972, and is no longer controling. Quoting outdated regs will not help the op. Neckerchief wear is determined by the unit now, they can opt to wear over or under; tucked or untucked; tied or untied; or even not at all. The ultimate authority in the units wear of the neckerchief is the Charter Org currently. If we still followed eary 1900s policy this would be a vastly differnet program, the times have changed. Disagrement with change does not excuse providing incorrect information.

Im not aware of a policy on spacing. Were always gone three across, and no space between rows. If you leave spacing between rows its likely youll get to sew them all back on when you run out of space. Its not uncommon to fill the entire front and need to continue on the back.

One thing to point out here, although we have explored the circumstance of a parent, or guardian, attending a ceremony, that does under any circumstance extend to siblings, uncles, friends, teacher, or anyone else. No CS little brother can ever be there under any circumstance.

YPT can be done online in 20 mins, if the issue is someone not having YPT, why not just take the training?

Happiness is watching the stars slowly fill the velvet sky, while the evenings fire, dwindling to embers, warms my feet. Part of an informal circle of friends and loved ones. Exchanging recollections and impressions of how the scouts, now asleep just over the rise, met the days challenges, growing and maturing.

This is happiness

The key here is understanding why knots exists. Just like with the scouts recognition, the adult recognition is designed to encourage, and reward performance. If you look at the award requirements they are a toll order, and have very tangible program benefits. If only 1000 Alumni completed the requirements for this award the benefit to the scouting movement would be on such a scale to be clearly noticed. Ive questioned the addition of many adult, and youth, awards, but I dont question the reason, or benefit of this sward, and program. Examine it a bit more closely, youll see what I see.

The color choices ... I'm less excited about

Nostalgia gives everyone warm fuzzies, but we live in a world where the reality is there are too few of us, doing too much, on too small of a budget. Efficiency gives us back time, personal, and money, that we sorely need for the program. Split rail fences, travel by horse, and fountain pens are nostalgic as well, but all gave way to for efficient items.

When someone signs up a new scout, hand them a clip board with both adult, and youth aps, and sheets for your various sub-committees. Say, "please complete both applications, and choose the committee you will help with". Collect all paperwork before they leave the meeting,

Have a monthly parent's meeting, that breaks out into committees the week after your unit committee meeting.

The choice to become involved is made when the scout joins the unit, and the parent is made a part of things at the start. Everyone has some time, and some skill, and can help in some way.

Don't forget the reach out the Charter Org for additional help, it's common the find past scouts, parents of past scouts, and supporters of youth programs there.

The more hands the lighter the load.

Welcome, pull up a log.

Likely youre seeing historic reproductions, in as far as the white on black, white on red, felts, ect. These sashes are from the early days. Beaded sashes are something arrowmen have made for years, and contrary to popular belief are not illegal, unless a the legend, or other items are added.

The official sash is red on white, and made of cloth. A beaded sash may be worn if it is a close representation of the official sash, no embellishment.

Likely youre seeing historic reproductions, in as far as the white on black, white on red, felts, ect. These sashes are from the early days. Beaded sashes are something arrowmen have made for years, and contrary to popular belief are not illegal, unless a the legend, or other items are added.

The official sash is red on white, and made of cloth. A beaded sash may be work if it is a close representation of the official sash, no embellishment.