oldsm

I don't know where people have gotten the idea that Scouting is or should be "free". I know we never stress that! Aside from looking for bargains and ways to do things without wasting money (a Scout IS thrifty), we make it clear to our families that the money spent will have a direct impact on the quality of the program and what their son gets out of it.

People "waste" a whole lot more money on "important" things that deliver a lot less (think movies, eating out, the latest styles, downloading from iTunes or Netflix, etc.) It's all about choices and priorities.

Christians also believe in the Old Testament. While some protestant Christian denominations focus almost exclusively on the New Testament, most Christians (I think) also understand that the good news of the New Testament makes sense only in the context of the Old Testament. Don't forget about all the O.T. prophecies of the one true Messiah.

In a Scouting environment where non-Christians are present, I think it makes sense to stress our similarities more than our differences. At any rate, I think we all believe in one God, whether we call him(her) God, or Yahweh, or Allah, or some other name. I believe that the differences are more in the beliefs and practices that have evolved surrounding our worship of the Deity.

Even so, as a Protestant preacher's kid, I can worship on occasion with other denominations, and have attended RC masses (sans Communion - I don't understand why Catholics have to be exclusive, but then I don't revere Mary in the same way, do not believe in transsubstantiation, and can talk directly with God without an intermediary). But I respect their traditions. I admire some of the practices of the Orthodox church (such as no instruments in worship, much like the early Christians -- check it out!). If I am with "those" people, I am not worshiping "their" God. He's mine, too! We just have different ways of practicing our faith. (Although I do make a very large exception for radical Muslims and anyone else who seeks to obliterate those of other faiths.)

This is a very challenging topic! I look forward to more discussion and some more concrete examples of what works in interfaith situations.

Dave, welcome to the forum. I think you'll be glad you found it. There is a lot of very good information shared freely here, along with some you probably can discount. Don' be a stranger - chime in when you have something to offer. All opinions are welcome.

He'll eat a couple of other things:

white bread (Wonder bread - all air)

raw carrots

pancakes

cookies

Won't eat:

any soup other than tomato

beef stew (canned, home made, or made on site)

foil dinners (beef or chicken)

cheese (including mac 'n' cheese)

baked apples

whole-grain breads

"heavy" white breads (Kaiser rolls, etc.)

oatmeal

potatoes (baked or boiled)

tortilla wraps

tacos / taco salad

salad fixings (except carrots)

tuna

Of course, if the Trading Post is open, he's the first to want to go there. We've learned not to let him go buy candy & junk food if he hasn't eaten at least something reasonable...

He may not die from not eating on a weekend, but he doesn't have enough energy or strength to keep going with the rest of the guys. No food going in = no energy coming out.

I think it's a mental thing - a battle of the wills. But I think his parents aide and abet the whole issue. His dad took him to camp last Friday - boys were supposed to eat before leaving home, but he forgot. So dad had him make a PBJ. Kid wouldn't eat it because there was PB on it...! He was in tears, and dad was about ready to strangle him (figuratively).

I have a new Scout, age 11, who has an extremely limited list of foods that he "will" eat. This is not a case of "cannot" due to any kind of food allergies.

At summer camp, the scout spent at least 24 hours in the health lodge because he didn't feel well - basically because he wouldn't eat. This is NOT just a camp phenomenon. It happens at home too, as well as on troop outing. His patrol mates have tried to incorporate things he'll eat into their menu plans, but then the boy accuses them of changing the menu. It has become a point of contention within the patrol.

I've discussed this with his parents (his mom is a Ph.D. psychologist). They've had him tested and evaluated by several doctors, none of whom can find anything wrong.

Here's a list of things will eat, as dictated by the mom to our SPL:

pork (grilled)

hamburgers (but no bun or condiments)

chicken (grilled)

tomato soup

oranges/apples

corn

bagels

pasta (from experience, he won't eat ziti because it's a different shape)

pepperoni

saltines

milk

iced tea

water

OJ

Tang

PBJ (grape only)

yogurt (didn't specify what kind/flavors)

(This past weekend, they did omelettes in a bag. This boy will not eat egg yolks - had to separate them - and would not add cheese, onions, ham, peppers, or anything else. At least he got some protein...)

This kid is skin and bones, tires easily, whines a lot, has trouble hiking 3 miles, and is very much about "me".

To me, this seems to be an extreme case of getting adults to cater to him. He'd rather go hungry than try to eat something that he thinks he doesn't like. Oh, yes - according to his mom, it's as much about "texture" as it is about flavor.

With that as background, here's the problem: What should we do with a boy like this on a camping trip? If we let him bring his own food, that sets precedent: why shouldn't we just let everyone take their own food?

We have summer camp again next July and a 5-day trip to Gettysburg in August. Here are my inclinations at this point:

1. Let the boy take his own food IF he can provide a written note from a medical professional (not his mother) stating that he can eat only certain foods. This would remove the argument for everyone else taking their own food. (My wife says he should still have to pay his share for the patrol menu, as at some point he likely will start dipping into everyone else's food).

2. Barring a doctor's note, let him (and his parents) know that he will not be permitted to go Gettysburg unless he can eat what everyone else eats on that trip. (Maybe the same for summer camp - it was a battle this year.) His dad is planning to go to Gettysburg because he is a huge US history buff (and can't wait to show off his knowledge).

I'd be interested to hear if any of you have run into this kind of problem before and, if so, how you handled it. Sorry for the length of the post, but it's a complex situation.

The cigarette...err, MEDIA pocket on the left sleeve is ridiculous. Our troop doesn't allow media players at meetings - only in the car on the way to an outing, and no one has yet put his MP3 player in the pocket and snaked the earbud wire through the hole.

The pocket, as the designated spot for the POR patch, is almost impossible to sew into. I ended up removing the pocket, sewing on my SM patch, then sewing the pocket back on.

Another useless feature is the tabs on the long sleeve shirt for holding the sleeves rolled up. The problem is that the sleeves are cut too narrow to be able to roll them up in the first place.

Can't blame the Chinese kids for this. The fault lies with National trying to make a quick buck by foisting poorly designed uniforms on us.

I have one young man in my troop who seems to have a problem with telling the truth. Not that I've seen it in him more than in any other boys, but I recently got the other side of the story from the boy's dad. Here's some background.

This scout just came back from a weekend LNT Trainer course - the first in our troop to have done this. The troop is going camping this weekend and he was looking forward to beginning to train the troop on LNT techniques. I think he would have done a great job. He is enthusiastic about it. This week he told me he couldn't go camping this weekend because his parents wouldn't let him. (The parents have been very supportive of the troop and like what it has done for him. It's his only extra-curricular activity - no sports, no job, etc.) I asked to speak with his Dad after the meeting.

Dad (actually, step-dad) filled me in on the long-term problems that they have with the lad. Dad is old-school from another culture where if you misbehaved your parents made you wish you hadn't. But he said he's tired of yelling and is at his wit's end. He said it's almost a relief when his son goes camping with us because they get some peace and quiet at home (the lad can be a bit over-enthusiastic on camping trips). His wife is fed up with the boy's lying and is the one who lowered the boom on this weekend. Apparently, the immediate issue has to do with some schoolwork that wasn't done, and then the make-up wasn't done, even though the boy said it was. The mom is in weekly contact with his teachers (high school). I do know that he had some major difficulties with academics last year, but he went to summer school and has pretty much been on target this year to get straight A's (confirmed by Dad). So when mom got info from the teachers and confronted her son, and he made it sound he didn't have a problem, Mom went ballistic.

Now, I'm not going to try to get the parents to relent about this weekend.

There will be more opportunities for the boy to teach LNT. I told Dad that I absolutely will support their decisions - it's not my place to tell them how to raise their son. BUT, I really like this kid and think he has a lot of potential that needs to be developed. I'd like to think that if he could just follow the scout law - especially "trustworthy" - that he could straighten things out. It's one thing to talk about what trustworthiness means, but often a different thing to put into practice.

I am looking for concrete ways that I, as SM and a person he looks up to (so I'm told by his parents), can help this boy control his propensity for lying. Suggestions for resources? Appropriate books that a 10th-grader would pick up and actually read? Words of wisdom? Is this something where there needs to be either individual or family counseling? School counselors here are worthless (I know from experience), so that's not an option. (As far as I know, this is NOT an abuse situation. Dad works full time, Mom is stay-at-home with a pre-school daughter, and there have been no indications of physical or mental abuse.)

Sorry about the length of this, but I wanted to provide some flavor for the situation. Thanks for your comments.

Who says the PL should not cook or be the cook on the duty roster? Whatever happened to "leadership by example"? The PL may be responsible for putting together ("overseeing") the duty roster, but if he doesn't do his share of the work, whether he likes it or not, is just setting up conflict within the patrol: think the "big boss" mentality of the old-style of leadership. Shared leadership says that the PL helps with the grunt work, too.

By now, probably everyone has heard this story about the 6-year-old Cub Scout who took his fork/knife/spoon to school to eat lunch.

My question: Have we as a society gone too far with zero-tolerance policies?

====================

6-Year-Old Scout Suspended for Bringing Knife-Fork-Spoon Utensil to School

Six-year-old Zachary Christie was so excited to become a Cub Scout that he brought his camping utensil to school. The tool serves as a spoon, a fork and a knife, and Zachary wanted to use it at lunch.

What Zachary didn't know was that the gizmo violated his school's zero-tolerance policy on weapons. And now the Christina School District in Newark, Del., has suspended the first grader and ordered him to attend the district's reform school for 45 days.

Zachary's parents insist their son did not intend to hurt anyone, and they are fighting to overturn the ruling.

"Zachary wears a suit and tie some days to school by his own choice because he takes school so seriously," Zachary's mother, Debbie Christie, told the New York Times. "He is not some sort of threat to his classmates."

The school district, in a statement, said rules are rules and defended its decision to suspend the boy.

"At this time, the Student Code of Conduct does not take into consideration a child's age in a Level three offense," the statement read.

"This is the first incident this year involving a student under the age of seven in possession of a dangerous instrument. Christina School District staff and the Christina Board of Education are constantly examining ways to improve policies regarding student discipline."

At a meeting with the school disciplinary committee last week, Zachary's karate instructor and his mothers fianc made the case for the boy's character.

And Zachary's mother has started a Web site to attract support for her son before a meeting of the school board on Tuesday.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,564605,00.html?test=latestnews

My Council did a couple several years ago. I don't recall many people from the public showing up. Probably poor location and little public publicity.

The 2nd one had about 5,000 scouts present. It was held at a well-known fairground facility. There was significant public presence, but I don't know how effective it was in terms of image.

The goal of both presumably was to create a venue to promote Scouting. The only charge was to the scouts who were participating and demonstrating what they do. The public was welcome at no charge. I think any cost was offset by the per-scout participation fee.

We have another one scheduled for next Spring. I know my scouts are eager to participate (some remember the last one). We'll see what happens - I hope it doesn't become a fund raiser.

Why is the Committee approving the calendar?

The PLC sets the calendar with input from me (the SM) and the Assistant Scoutmasters. We publish the calendar, and that's when the Committee finds out about it.

The Committee's job is to support the program, not hinder it. In the several years I've been SM, there's never been an issue. If someone can't attend a meeting because it conflicts with some family plan, then that person just misses the activity. The troop goes on.

Does anyone know where I can download a copy of the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook in WORD (.doc) format? It used to be available on National's site and on nesa.org. However, all I can find now are the RTF and PDF versions.

The PDF version is now "fillable", which would be fine except that the narrative sections have a separate field for each line, which makes it almost impossible to write a narrative. There is no "wrapping" from one line to another, and as the text gets to the end of a line, the entire line of text gets smaller and smaller. This makes editing and error correction extremely tedious - even for experienced writers like me. A youth will go nuts, and justifiably so. There is also no easy way to embed scanned "before" and "after photos. If not for these fundamental flaws in designing the "fillable" version of the booklet, PDF would be great.

In the Word version, expanding the write-up was easy, as everything automatically pushed down when additional material was inserted. It made for a very complete and professional-looking proposal.

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the Word version anymore. Does anyone know where I can obtain a copy?

Patience and tenacity sometimes are rewarded. A major local news story today reads, in part:

"After a one-year hiatus, the local Boy Scout coffee stop on Interstate 95 will be returning Sept. 4-7 to the Waterford weigh stations.

"In a decision later supported by Gov. M. Jodi Rell, the state Department of Transportation, citing safety concerns, denied Boy Scouts the right to hold a 24-hour coffee stop at the weigh stations last year. So local legislators, led by state Sen. Andrea Stillman and state Rep. Ed Jutila, passed a bill earlier this year that specifically allowed local Scouts to conduct an overnight coffee stop on Labor Day weekend - legislation the governor vetoed in a spending measure before the General Assembly overrode her."

For a full article, including kudos to the leader who pressed the issue with the state, go here: http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=5ba01ea4-0104-44c9-9dfc-8d8914be381e

I just might have to stop in for a friendly cup of coffee. Good luck to the Scouts!

I am curious how your troop handles the Historian responsibilities.

When I joined the troop, someone passed along a plastic tub with a bunch of memorabilia: old programs, correspondence, a few pictures. I don't know who maintained it: scouts? adults? Nothing is very well organized, although some items were inside a binder. It was definitely a manual process that appeared mostly to be a collection of stuff that would be of value only to someone who wanted to search through the troop equivalent of your grandmother's attic. I'm not sure how far back the "archives" go - the troop was established in 1966.

Today we expect a Historian to be the pack rat (troop rat?).

Pictures are more often digital than printed.

Few people use photo albums anymore - they like to look at their pictures online.

COH programs could be put in a binder, but then they get mangled with hole punching.

The Historian doesn't go on every outing, so some history-in-the-making doesn't get captured.

Does troop history include keeping a record of who participated in which event?

Some of the more visible achievements are part of old Eagle projects. Those get written up as part of the project, but the project documentation resides with the scout who did the project. How do you capture that?

What happens when your troop doesn't have a Historian for a year or few?

How do you handle Powerpoint slides?

Trying to track everything can be overwhelming. Where do you draw the line regarding expectations for a Historian?

I guess my most significant question is: How do you make all this stuff available and relevant to today's scouts (and maybe the parents)?

The new socks fit my feet comfortably enough that I don't need liners or wool socks over them for extra padding in my boots. However, the tops are too tight for anyone who doesn't have chicken legs. After wearing the new socks for a couple of hours, there's a very distinct narrowing of the leg where they go into the socks. Changing to a larger size makes the rest of the sock too big.

A related uniform defect is the tabs on the sleeves for holding up rolled-up sleeves. The sleeves are too skinny to even roll up to my elbows, let alone up to the tabs.

Just found this on Foxnews.com. How terribly sad. I can't begin to imagine the effect on the troop and the scout's family, but his parents' attitude speak volumes about character. My prayers for all involved.

==============

Monday, July 27, 2009

The parents of a 14-year-old Boy Scout from Edina who collapsed and died during a hike in New Mexico say there's nothing anyone could have done to save him.

Timothy Nunn died Friday at Philmont Scout Ranch in northern New Mexico. The cause of his death isn't known.

The boy's parents, Jim and Zibby Nunn, said in a statement that their son loved the Boy Scouts and that they take solace in the belief he died doing something he loved.

The Nunns encouraged the Scouts in Timmy's group to continue their trip at Philmont. The family plans to hold Timothy's funeral in early August after the group returns from New Mexico.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,534928,00.html?test=latestnews

NancyB, there is a fundamental flaw in your reasoning about a cell phone being a safety thing because you had to wait for 6 hours to find out about your son.

Your not knowing was undoubtedly a horrible experience - more than I can imagine. However, your knowing sooner would not have had anything to do with whether he was safe or not. You were really only concerned about your own comfort and peace of mind.

I'm glad he was OK.

More parents need to let go and let their sons grow up without being constantly tethered. Isn't that part of what scouting is all about?

When I was in high school in the early 70's, we had to take showers after PE. The shower was a maze that everyone had to walk through - you couldn't avoid getting wet - and the gym teacher handed out towels at the end. The school had a pool, and all swimming was done au natural.

Today's generation won't even change clothes if someone else is in the tent with them. ("Somebody might see my boxers...") At least these guys don't go around looking like plumbers.

I had a similar situation a few years ago where a new scout had forged signatures in his book. I found out about it when one of the older scouts (who had been authorized to sign off on certain requirements) brought to my attention that some things had been signed off with his initials, but they weren't in his handwriting.

I had an after-meeting SMC with the new scout (with an ASM present). Dad, who had come to pick up his son, insisted on sitting in. As soon as Dad realized that his son had forged the signatures, he took his son and said "We're outta here if this is the way things are going to be." The kid dropped out of scouts that night. He's been a handful in school from what I've overheard. Too bad Dad took away a teaching opportunity.

Good luck!

Simple. Forget the electronic games. Talk to the PLC beforehand and get their buy-in.

The scouts in my troop have had a "game night" (an all-night camp-in) for several years. The only entertainment allowed is BOARD GAMES and movies on DVD or VHS. They set a rating limit. Sure, some try to sneak in the "R" rated movies, but they police it well. Only once that I know of have the adults had to step in. Easily monitored.

Board games that are always popular: Chess, Risk (sometimes have 2 of these going), Connect 4. Monopoly (there's never enough time to finish a game at home), and several others whose names I can't recall.

All supplemented by pizza

Although I enjoy a meal cooked in a Dutch oven, it's too heavy for backpacking. Takes up too much room, too.

Avail yourself of a couple of Back Country cookbooks. These have terrific recipes. The boys have learned that a little extra prep work at home pays huge dividends with the variety of menus they can have, makes food easy to carry with no need for regrigeration, minimizes on-the-trail cooking time and mess, and is fun to do. It's fun to watch the patrols start to compete with each other for who can have the most interesting dishes.

[digression] As much as I hated powdered milk when I was a kid, the scouts have embraced it. I still cringe when I see them sprinkle some on their granola and then add water. Somehow, it just doesn't seem right...but I'm not going to "correct" them.[end digression]

Search Under Way for Teen Hiker Missing in New Hampshire Mountains

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 (AP)

CONCORD, N.H. Crews soon will resume their search on the ground and by helicopter for a 17-year-old hiker in the White Mountains who has been missing since Saturday.

WMUR reports the search is scheduled to resume at about 8 a.m. Tuesday for Scott Mason, an Eagle Scout and high school junior from Halifax, Mass., who headed up Mount Washington early Saturday planning to hike 17 challenging miles in one day.

Lt. Douglas Gralenski of the state Fish and Game Department said Monday Mason's chances of surviving were good even if he spent another night outdoors.

Gralenski said searchers followed boot tracks Monday consistent with someone who was disoriented or lost.

The search was focused on the Great Gulf Wilderness north of Tuckerman Ravine on Mount Washington.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,518209,00.html

About a year ago my son, who volunteers with the local ambulance company as an MRT (medical response technician - sort of like a junior EMT), was helping with a 19-year old OD victim at the local hospital ER. He was doing compressions when the doctor finally pronounced the young man. My son took it very hard. He wanted to visit the grave a year later only to find out that the deceased had been cremated and there was no interment site.

He is now taking an EMT course. He still wants to "help other people at all times."

I'm not sure which MB's I'd drop but, unlike some posters, I would not combine the 3 Citizenships into one. Each of these addresses a different aspect of citizenship, and there is a very logical progression from Community to Nation to World. There are some very different concepts. I strongly recommend that my scouts start with the local and work up to the global view.

Consider, too, that the critical thinking required for World is quite a bit higher than that for Community or Nation. It makes sense from a developmental standpoint to steer younger scouts (6/7th grade) to Community, 8/9th grade to Nation, and 10th/up to World. Doing this provides the amount of mental challenge appropriate to his age. It also has the benefit of making citizenship training a continuum instead of a one-shot deal.

My council uses blue cards. The scouts in my troop ALWAYS have a filled-out blue card BEFORE they contact a counselor, whether at camp, an MBU, Jamboree, or at home. No exceptions.

Our District Advancement Chairman insists on seeing the physical blue cards before he will agree to an EBOR. Given the propensity of Council's ScoutNet records to be in error, those blue cards are frequently lifesavers...