oldsm

From Foxnews.com just now (6/24/10 @ 11:43 a.m.):

Boy Scouts Win Battle in Court

June 23, 2010 - 12:32 PM | by: Rick Leventhal

UPDATE:

A Philadelphia jury has ruled in favor of the Boy Scouts, meaning they will not be evicted from their home or forced to pay rent, at least for now.

Outside the courthouse, a lawyer for the Boy Scouts, Jason Gosselin, told Fox News the Scouts won on the most important issue, that of First Amendment rights. The jury found the city posed an unconstitutional condition on the organization by asking it to pay $200,000 annual rent on property it was leasing for a dollar a year, in a building the Scouts built and paid for themselves, all because the city felt the Scouts were in violation of Philadelphia's anti-discrimination laws.

"What we really want is to sit down with the city and resolve this matter once and for all" Gosselin says.

Philadelphia's response: "We are disappointed that the jury did not appreciate the City's obligation to deploy municipal resources in a manner that protects the rights of all of Philadelphia's citizens. While the good work of the Boy Scouts cannot be disputed, the City remains steadfast in its commitment to prevent its facilities from being used to disadvantage certain groups. In the meantime, we will review the trial record to determine our legal options."

***

A happy day. But I'll bet it's not over until the proverbial fat lady sings. Do I hear "appeal"?

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/06/23/boy-scouts-battle-in-court/?test=latestnews

Edit to correct typo: oldsm(This message has been edited by oldsm)

We're not close to the AT - it's about a 2-hour drive for us. However, several years ago, 4 of my previous scouts did a 3-day/2-night section in rain (which turned out to be the edge of a significant tropical depression - wet enough that they coined the term "whitewater hiking"). Four of them also attempted a portion of the AT in Maine, and found that they'd bitten off more than they could chew.

My recommendation before tackling the AT is to get the guys in shape with a series of warm-up hikes. Start light, then work up to full packs. And don't count last summer's training as preparation for this summer - the body doesn't stay in shape and the hike will be that much harder.

The best resource for hiking the AT is the maps published by the ATC. My understanding is that the trail is well marked and that a good map and guide book will be adequate for what you'll likely want to do. Incidentally, our experience has been that there is good cell phone coverage on the sections we've done in NW Connecticut and western Maine. Probably because the phone companies want nice high places for their towers...

One of the things my PLC stated is that they want to do more backpacking. In CT, there are few places where you can hike, pitch a tent, and move on the next day. The AT is probably our best bet.

Keep us posted on your guys' adventure.

This past weekend we held our Annual Planning Conference but use a format that is probably familiar to most of you.

First off, our SPL's have been singularly unwilling to think ahead enough, or perhaps too immature, to conduct a planning session, because they always fall back on the familiar. And only 2-3 scouts would show up for the session (a meeting held in the church lounge around a conference table).

This year we scheduled the APC for a Friday night + all day Saturday at a small church-operated camp that none of the Scouts had ever been to. We had access to cabins and a lodge with full kitchen, along with a small field and a waterfront with canoes, row boats, and a swimming area (with raft) on a crystal clear lake. For the first time ever, we had the entire PLC present. (They had also been reminded several times to talk with their patrols about the kinds of things they want to do and to come armed with ideas.) One scout even declined an invitation to a close friend's end-of-school party.

The weather cooperated - it was perfect. Friday started with a steak dinner cooked over an open fire - got things started off right! Followed by a talking session (in overstuffed sofas/chairs) where the boys were challenged to identify goals and objectives for the next year. Followed by freshly-baked chocolate chip cookies. Comment: "We should bring the whole troop here!"

Saturday started early with fresh cinnamon rolls and fried eggs. Followed by planning sessions interspersed with a number of outdoor activities: "bouncy bocce", 3-legged and 8-legged races of 0.1 miles 1-way), plenty of water time. Our service project was re-anchoring the raft and stringing up the ropes/buoys to define the swimming areas for the beginning of the camp's summer season. All the action kept things interesting and definitely improved the quality of discussions.

The result was a well-planned calendar of events that support the goals and objectives that they identified. They returned home Saturday night (couldn't infringe on Fathers Day) tired but happy. Revised comment: "Let's not bring the entire troop here. We should keep this place just for our planning conferences."

One other thing of note: most of our Scouts are pretty poor at creating or following a schedule. We had a pretty tight schedule and gave everyone a copy of it, along with a speech about the importance of sticking to it and their personal responsibility in making it happen. (Too often, our SPL keeps the schedule to himself.) I think maybe they saw what can be accomplished with a balanced and written plan.

Our troop Scribe (who ages out in 3 weeks) commented to his parents the next day that he's sorry to be turning 18, because he's excited about what they planned. He thinks it would be more fun to participate as a Scout than as an ASM. He's probably right!

We'd used the old planning method for years - that's the way they did it when my sons moved into the troop, and we never changed it until now. I'm already thinking about ways to improve things and empower the SPL more next year. Why does it take so long for some of us old-timers to see the light?

I believe that Troop Ledger (troopmaster.com) is an excellent, comprehensive program designed for the way Scout units operate. It is based on solid accounting principles. If you don't understand debiting and crediting of accounts, then you'll need to read the user guide carefully. You can track routine budget income/expense, scout accounts, trip accounts, troop assets (trailers, gear, etc.), and much, much more.

I got our treasurer to try it a couple of years ago, believing that it would provide more clarity and granularity of reporting. However, our treasurer was more comfortable using Excel - dozens of spreadsheets with a couple of formulas, but it is exceedingly difficult to produce ad hoc reports with any degree of confidence. TL would have been terrific in my opinion, had the treasurer really taken the time to evaluate the program and get used to a new (better) way of accounting.

You can get Troop Ledger on a trial basis.

Regardless of how you attach them, 15-20 ribbons on a troop flag pole is a bit much. It gets to the point that you can't see the flag, and it becomes unwieldy to handle. In a parade, the mass of ribbons makes the whole thing very top heavy. Indoors, the weight causes the flag and stand to fall over.

You can't display/store ribbons in a book - at least we haven't found a way. Most of the time, they just wind up in a drawer.

Are they worth keeping? I'm still looking for solutions...Thanks!

What does your troop do with all those ribbons that are awarded? Such as:

- annual recharter ribbon

- 100% Boys Life (at recharter time)

- Participation ribbons (for camporees, etc.)

- 1st/2nd/3rd-place ribbons for various events: competitions at camporees and other outings (some may have been earned by patrols or "temporary/mixed" patrols, depending upon attendance)

- FOS participation

BSA sells a ring that can be added to a flagpole so your ribbons can be displayed with the troop flag. But sooner or later they all get tangled, the cords fray, and they generally look a mess. Not a very practical solution.

We tried a separate bar to hang them on, but it gets moved around and parked behind other stuff (we use a church fellowship hall shared by MANY other groups), so the ribbons aren't protected in any way.

Are these ribbons a part of Troop history? Are they worth keeping forever? Would you keep them only until the boys who earned them leave the troop (for whatever reason - Eagle/age/etc)?

It's kind of nice to get some the the ribbons, but I'm not sure they have much meaning to the scouts.

What does your troop do with them?

Yeah, I was kind of thinking along those lines. Unfortunately, we're between DE's right now. I do know the SE, although not well - our paths have crossed a number of times (always on good terms)...I'll definitely be contacting the DAC.

Last evening I met with the Troop Committee to review this whole incident. All 6 TC members present except one have sons in the troop (the other one's son aged out about 25 years ago). They had all heard bits and pieces from their sons. I filled them in on the events that occurred, read the dad's email, and presented my findings. My recommendations were that the dad be banned from all scout activities except Courts of Honor for some indefinite time, possibly a minimum of 6 months, and have to complete YP, after which we would consider reintegrating him into the parent community based on our observations and our sense of the boys being comfortable with him around. The committee opted for a review after 4 months. Dad was present in the building (although not with the scouts), so I brought him in to the TC where I explained the committee's deliberations and the decision. Although dad was not happy with the consequences, and says he was not aware that he used profanity with the boys, he did say that he accepts the decision and will abide by it. Everything was civil. We were careful to identify his behavior as the problem - not him, not his sons who I hope will continue to be active in the troop. This was difficult for me because the dad and I have known each other since before scouts.

A TC member asked if we need to report this farther up, such as to our CO or the Council. I haven't checked the G2SS yet, so I'm not certain - will check that later today. The dad is not registered with the troop, but is registered as a MB Counselor. I do intend to alert our District Advancement Chairman.

I also communicated the action to the parent of the lad who bore the brunt of the dad's outburst; he says he's comfortable with the action. I also shared the result with the PLC, along with some counsel about the implications of having that knowledge and how to use it responsibly (kind, courteous, etc.) so that rumors don't get started.

Looking back over the evening, I was struck by how good the relationship is that I have with my TC. They were absolutely 100% supportive, not as a rubber-stamp (they asked some very good questions), but as a truly interested group of concerned adults. I feel blessed to have a TC that does their job well, doesn't try to do mine, and supports the program as best they can. (I even got a late-night phone call from one TC member to see how I was doing - she realized that it was uncomfortable for me due to the long-standing relationship - and to let me know that she and the committee felt that I had handled the entire situation in the best way possible.) It doesn't get much better!

Thank you all for your advice and observations. They have been most helpful.

Thank you to all for the answers and suggestions thus far.

Last week the SPL did an excellent job reviewing the boys' code of conduct (which basically elaborates on the Scout Law) with the entire troop to help everyone figure out how things happened and what, if anything, needed to be done to prevent future problems. The basic outcome was that this was a case of boys being boys and they just need to be aware of what they're doing. There was no apparent intent to hurt anyone, so they decided that the no consequences needed to be imposed on the Scouts. Involving the entire troop was appropriate since most of them witnessed the incident anyway, and not all of them are part of the PLC.

I met the dad at the door and told him that the boys were going to address that incident, and that it would be better if he were nowhere around. He agreed and mentioned that, since he'd had his say in the email presenting his side, he considered the matter closed. I told him that we would talk later (knowing that no one else considers it closed).

I spoke individually with the principle boys and several others. The ones at the center of the issue have made and accepted appropriate apologies and say that they have put this behind them. Several of the other boys corroborated what I had learned from other sources, except that I also learned that the dad was cursing at the boys, dropping the F-bomb several times, along with a couple of G** d***s. Two of the older scouts told me that they were so angry at the dad that they were almost ready to punch him.

A couple of parents approached me out of concern. I managed to assuage their concerns by letting them in on how the issue is being addressed. At least the boys talk with their parents - yay!

Several scouts are genuinely afraid of this dad now. I assured them that, as they had resolved he issues that the Scouts could control, I am addressing the adult issue.

Tonight I am meeting with the Troop Committee to solicit their support. I've already spoken offline with some of them, and I'm pretty sure that they will concur with the recommendations that the ASM's and I are proposing. That will include banning the dad from all scout functions and meetings except Courts of Honor, no contact with any scout without additional adult supervision (such as MB counseling). I also believe that he needs to apologize to the entire troop (and to the boys he verbally assaulted), but not until such time as the boys let me know that they are ready to hear an apology.

I am not sure how long banishment should continue. Should there be a time limit? Some precipitating event (such as an apology)? YP trianing?

The adults were still in the campsite, about a 7-10 minute walk away, but out of voice range. The boys were in the parking lot on their way to visit the adjacent swamp to see what could be seen.

The dad was expected to pick up his older son, but got there about 30 minutes early (that in itself is of no consequence). This camp is a small "wilderness" camp with a small parking lot, 3 virtually unimproved camping areas, 1 latrine, 1 water source, 1 light. No tent platforms, no shelters, etc. It's a great place to camp!

The adults were intentionally following the boys at some distance to let them function on their own, so they arrived on the scene shortly after the SPL intervened.

A situation occurred near the end of a camping trip this weekend that calls for action. I was not present, but as SM have been placed squarely in the middle of the fray. There are several issues. This is going to be long, but the details are important to the situation. I apologize in advance.

1. Scouts behaving poorly. While one scout was giving another a piggyback ride, he apparently and accidentally kicked another scout who was on foot. Concurrently, another scout was running with a stick; he tripped, and the stick struck the scout who had just been kicked. (The victim is one of the younger scouts and is quick to play the poor-me card.) The ASM and another parent were some distance away, having allowed the scouts to move ahead on their own. Based on reports from the ASM who was on site, as well as corroborating reports from several scouts, I do not believe that malice was involved it was a case of boys being boys exercising poor judgment. The principle scouts are 12 and 13 years old.

2. Parent overstepping bounds. The parent of the scout who was kicked arrived shortly after the incident occurred. (This Dad had arrived early to pick up his older son for a church commitment the younger son was scheduled to return later with the rest of the troop.) Victim son immediately ran over to Dad and complained about being kicked and beaten with a stick. Dad went ballistic on the boy who kicked (during the piggyback ride), and the boy who beat his son with a stick. He essentially held his own inquisition and threatened the stick scout with comments like How would you like it if I beat you with a stick?, berated the boy for dishonoring the scout uniform, and demanded to know what parts of the Scout Law he had violated. At the very least, this was a non-registered parent bullying a couple of scouts. Dad told son he was going home with him right then and there, but SPL (who had been on the other side of the parking lot), intervened and told Dad that he could not take his son without first talking with the ASM, who arrived on scene a few minutes later.

SPL told me that the parent had no right to talk to any scout the way he did, that he should have talked with the adults. I agree, and credit the SPL for confronting the Dad.

The dad sent me an email with his side of things explained, conveniently omitting the threats. I have not responded to him yet because I want to be fair but firm, and this parent is one who is very forceful a my way or the highway type. I have known him for several years through other venues and we generally have a good working relationship.

The parents of the stick scout are very angry at the other parent. Their son is afraid to go to any meeting where this parent might be present, and is talking about dropping out (hes been a really good scout and a real asset to the troop). The parents (and I) want a quick resolution to avoid having this escalate to a parent vs parent confrontation, which could get ugly.

What to do? Ive talked with a Committee member (The CC is out of town and unreachable).

I am tempted to involve the PLC with the scout violations: running with sticks, kicking, piggyback rides, etc., and see how they want to deal with the issues. A potential problem is that the PLC includes the brother of the victim and the two boys who were doing piggyback. It does not include the stick boy, who definitely needs to be heard in the interest of fairness.

The parent issue I think needs to have the backing of the Committee/COR. My inclination is that Dad should be banned from any contact with scouts other than his own sons, and must wait in the parking lot to pick up his sons after meetings, instead of being part of the parent gauntlet that accumulates at the door at the end of meetings. I also will not be referring scouts to him for MB counseling at least not until he retakes YP and I get assurances that another adult will be present for all MB sessions. This may result in the loss of 2 scouts, but I would rather see that than lose a bunch more for not dealing effectively with the issue.

Thank you for your suggestions.

Not a committee decision. Ideally, let the boys discuss it and come up with their solution. If you absolutely can't trust their decision, then it's up to the senior adult in charge at camp - that's you!

Tell the other adults that no shirts is OK, but draw the line at no pants!

Time to get unwound a bit - the whole Committee, too.

There are a number of us who would like accurate, updated information - and not so that we can gloat, second-guess, or play Monday Morning QB. Unfortunately, it seems that those with direct or 2nd-order knowledge have been duly disgusted with the online antics of certain members of this forum and have gone elsewhere. Too bad. I can't blame them for not saying where else they're going.

Was/is this a hoax? I don't know. But not abiding by the spirit of the Scout Law and Scout Oath with respect to this thread has, I think, cheapened this entire forum.

It takes a lifetime to develop a reputation - seconds to lose one.

What do the boys want?

According to my District Advancement Chair, there are no plans to follow through with the Historic Merit Badges. Seems that someone at National thought it would be a good idea, Boys Life picked it up and ran with it, but the decision to actually do it was never approved and likely will not be.

BL owes us an apology, I think.

In the previous thread, a poster was asking about the value of a Den Chief in Cub Scouts. I have a related question: How do you find a [good] Scout who can make the commitment to be a Den Chief?

I know that DC is a POR, but there are lots of others.

DC, it seems, requires another weekly meeting beyond troop/patrol functions, along with prep time and time to plan with the WDL. With the huge variety of activities that older scouts get involved in, where do you find a BS with the time, the skills, and the interest.

From a troop perspective, how do you make this work? And how do you get the boy scouts (the potential DCs) to see the value of being a DC?

We post the new requirements on the bulletin board, send an email to every scout (and parents), and write them on the appropriate page of the scout's handbook (makes good reference at the BOR).

It hasn't worked for several months...

We have used Class B (www.classb.com). Their prices are good (no surprises), and their quality and customer service are absolutely outstanding. They are licensed by BSA. I don't know how the exchange rate will work or what shipping costs will be, but check them out.(This message has been edited by oldsm)

The funniest one was the Doritos ad where the cheeky young lad says "keep your hands off my momma, and keep your hands off my Doritos." I'm still laughing at that one.

I haven't read everything in this thread, but one thing irks me about most of the DE's that we've had: They cannot communicate well.

Oral: Needs to be concise. Use the correct words, not just something close to what you mean. Be explicit.

Written: Learn how to write effectively. Especially when you present yourself as a professional. Too much written communication (letters, fliers, and emails) are very poorly done - most middle school students would not be able to get a passing grade on a paper written as poorly as some DE communications. It is embarrassing. Seeing letters from my DE addressed to "Troop Masters" does not engender my sense of confidence in the Pro.

I would bet that the lack of impeccable communication skills has a direct bearing upon the ability to attract donors and their money...

We use Troopmaster.net, although we haven't taken advantage of the multiple users aspect yet. I, as SM, do all of the data entry, including individual requirements as the are earned - IF I am told about them. We have a standing rule that anyone who signs off on a requirement has to give me a note so that I can update TM. I find TM useful to track when a scout starts a MB and who the counselor is. For the MB's I counsel, I do track the partial requirements. We have about 20 active scouts, so it's not too difficult to keep up.

Our Council now requires that all advancements be done online, either from a TM upload or via Scoutnet, and our local scout shop will not set advancements (MB's or rank) without evidence of the report being filed. I do miss the old paper trail.

Don't close the thread. I want to see what happens when the number of pages in the thread goes exceeds the space allotted on 1 line. Will the numbers concatenate (1 2 3 4 5...33, 34, 35)? Or will they wrap to another line?

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking for? Pictures of "evidence"? Or are you suggesting that a scout can "identify or show evidence" by submitting photos he finds online? Or pictures that he takes himself?

My troop follows the practice of having a scout show or identify the actual animal/scat/tree hole/beaver dam/etc. in the wild - usually on a camping trip.

How do other units handle this requirement?

It's not a replacement for the printed book, though. There's no "app" to sign off on advancements, so you still need the paper version.